Be careful what you say

[Mugetsu]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10372148/
Do you think that a school authority figure should be able to tell a student that they are not allowed to speak in another language? Should students be limited to speakinh just english at all times?


Personally I don't think so. I can understand if it was in a classroom setting and was a disturbance (such as answering questions in a language no one else understands just for the fun of it) but my understanding is that he was talking to another student outside of class. And for that he gets suspended.
What the hell is that about???
Thats an infringement on freedom of speech if i ever heard one. That civil suit will be real easy to win. You can't tell someone not to speak another language just because you feel like it.

Of course, I could be wrong.

[gothic_neko_youkai]

I agree with you all the way, they had no right to do that to him whatsoever

[Eris]

So much for freedom of speech.

[Kit Katy]

That's mean to do to him.I mean really?What's wrong with answering a question?

[-akichan-]

Well to tell the truth, there are many asian peoples here in where i live especially Korean and Chinese peoples. No one would ever make them to speak English instead of their language. If i see a korean person, i believe i would speak korean to that person.

And i would disagree with speaking only English, we have the freedom of wut you speak. Speaking English is not wut president or whoever required as to do. But of course if those peoples are like the koreans in my school, always talk shizzles about other peoples that doesnt understand korean but i actually understood, thats rude. That could be the reason why peoples has to speak entire english here.

But still, we have the freedom here of wut language to speak, we have the freedom for not speaking English here. But of course everyone should learn English since English is the international language.

[akiko_kalla]

First of all, I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the course of action. The reason he was suspended has nothing to do with language, it was because he broke the rules. He spoke Spanish when he knew he wasn't supposed to, thus the consequences for breaking that rule. Especially in an alternative school it is EXTREMELY important to be consistant and if the rule is broken, always follow it up with the consequence. (However, both boys should have been suspended in this case. If the teacher only heard one boy speak in Spanish though, that is why--she couldn't prove the other boy did.)

Now as to whether or not these types of rules should be allowed, that is another matter. Allowing students to speak in a language other than the one used at the school often creates negative reactions from other students. Also, you would be surprised how many students use it as an excuse to not do work or follow directions. From an ESL standpoint, it hinders their development of the second language if they are allowed to revert back to their native language whenever they want. They aren't saying you can't speak Spanish, they're saying you can't speak Spanish at school. School is like a job and when you're at your job you are expected to speak English. Forcing them to practice English by making a rule not to speak other languages is no different than your Spanish teacher forbidding you to speak English. Only with ESL we are talking about students who don't have a choice to learn another language--their future in this country is dependant on it. And, as this article demonstrates, he is not learning or at least not using, proper English and this was for an interview. A school's purpose is to help prepare the student for life, not the slang in a high school hallway. A little more is at stake, thus a little more rigid the consequences.

In a nutshell, the student should have been suspended--not because he spoke Spanish, but because he broke the rules. He's already at an alternative school and regardless of what kind of student he is or if he should even be there--because some students shouldn't be, he is still bound by their rules. Again, an alternative school is NOT a typical classroom as much as it aims to be. There is typically more supervision and more focus on basic material and supplementary teaching of life skills. Students come to these schools for all sorts of reasons and from all different backgrounds, so the rules are generally a little on the strict side. Think of it like this...the classroom has this student, the student next to him has difficulty with basic addition and subtraction, another one has locked herself in the closet again while this one starts to scream at the person next to her, and the other one just got out of juvenile hall and yet another just got busted for a fight he started with the drug dealer in the corner. All different types, all put together to try to help them and many of them claim they don't want help. They are placed here to hopefully reteach what they need to function in a regular school setting.

Also, I'm not judging these students as I teach in the inner city and I love other languages and cultures. I know what kind of lives some of them come from...but although they had no control over who their parents were, they DO have control over themselves. Was this consequence to harsh? I'm not going to touch that with a ten foot pole simply because I wasn't there, I don't know the whole story, and I don't know the history of this incident--only that it has happened before. To not address someone breaking a rule within your presence teaches the student it is okay to break the rule and that the rules are not really rules. Once you teach that, you have chaos and frankly in this type of situation they may not ever unlearn it. And they will apply that lesson to others "rules" in their future.

[-akichan-]

It realli depends on wut rules or how deep did they break, right? I know that they wouldnt be banned cos of the language as i mentioned about the freedom of language you speak.

[Vendetta]

i completely agree...my school lets you speak whatever language you wanna spaek

[akiko_kalla]

It realli depends on wut rules or how deep did they break, right? I know that they wouldnt be banned cos of the language as i mentioned about the freedom of language you speak.

He wasn't banned, he was suspended for a day and a half. As I stated above, an Alternative school is NOT a regular school. Rules are more strict and consequences may appear harsher. There are reasons for the rules. Aside from the ESL standpoints, language is often used to show defiance towards teachers and staff and demonstrate you are part of a gang or group. Given the situation, a harmless comment could turn into a fight that goes far beyond the school walls, because so-and-so said whatever in Spanish within your presence and they should know better. The point is, he broke the rule and not for the first time so he was suspended. It may also be that if you break the rule more than once you're suspended. An Alternative School is serious about rules and consequences because many students found themselves kicked out of their regular school and placed here for not following them.

This isn't an issue about language, this is an issue about rules. If he followed the rules, this wouldn't have happened or at least this would have been the first time this happened.

[-akichan-]

As im saying freedom of language, no reason to be suspended...unless you are just like the pplz at my school, you talk bad things about pplz and teachers in your language and thought they dun understand, then you're in trouble in language problem. As Akiko said, cos they broke the rules. No point of bad repping a person who talked about freedom of language....

and this thread was started by the language topic i believe.

edit: my bad, i meant "suspended" not banned lol^^;

[akiko_kalla]

As im saying freedom of panguage, no reason to be suspended...unless you are just like the pplz at my school, you talk bad things about pplz and teachers in your language and thought they dun understand, then you're in trouble in language problem. As Akiko said, cos they broke the rules. No point of bad repping a person who talked about freedom of language....

I'm not bad repping anyone. I'm trying to explain that the media made this out to be a freedom of language issue when in reality it isn't. The school allows them to speak their native languages, just not all the time. Likewise, the school expects students to follow the rules and applies consequences when they don't. Besides, unless you speak the language there is no way to know if students are being condescending or not, so it's better to just stop a problem before it happens. If this was a normal classroom, yes I would agree and that student would not be suspended. But it's an alternative school and that is why the consequence seems harsher.

Re to your edit: ^_^ It happens when you're thinking and trying to type it all out...if only my fingers could move as fast as my thoughts, eh?

[Fetal Fetish]

It doesnt actually make sense.....my school let's us talk in any language as long as we are not cursing or something and the teacher can understand it.

[akiko_kalla]

Do you go to an Alternative School? Also, understand the media isn't going to present the full case to you because then there is no story. The student isn't going to tell you because then he won't get attention. And the school can't tell you because it's against the law. So the only people who really know what happened are the ones involved in it.

[-akichan-]

No im not saying you.

And yes, we agree with eachother that we can speak any language at school, but not too often. I heard someone came to me while i was speaking korean with my friend, he said that speaking other language here is disrespecting and i was going to be suspended too, even my korean friend that doesnt know english well. It is realli harsh.

All depends, thats wut im gonna saying.

[ryoga-one]

i think that it's wrong to punish him just for speaking a language. it just shows how messed up the u.s. is getting.

[LittleMomo]

I agree with ryoga-one dieselman and others! We all should have freedom of speech.

[Mugetsu]

Do you go to an Alternative School? Also, understand the media isn't going to present the full case to you because then there is no story. The student isn't going to tell you because then he won't get attention. And the school can't tell you because it's against the law. So the only people who really know what happened are the ones involved in it.

I know how the media works so I am not saying that this is the entire story. I can only go by the information presented to me.
It just seems to me that this did not happen in a classroom setting. I have never been to an alternative school so I cannot comment on that. I can understand if what he was doing was a disturbanse to the other students, but it seems like they were isolated and the suspension seemed to just be really unnecessary to me.

[akiko_kalla]

That district and that school believe in freedom of speech too. The media isn't giving the whole story, kids don't get suspended for just saying "no problem." But because it's a school, the school is bound by law not to discuss it especially at an alternative school. Because it is such a school, the rules will be strongly enforced, but they aren't going to get into all the specifics as to why it came to that. So we'll never really know. But don't let the media fool you into thinking this is about language, because it's not. There's a large hispanic community there and they would speak out about such a thing if they felt their children were being treated as such. There are two sides to every story.


There I'm done...lol, sorry if I went on a rant, but I"m so sick of the media portraying only half a story and getting everyone upset.

I know how the media works so I am not saying that this is the entire story. I can only go by the information presented to me.
It just seems to me that this did not happen in a classroom setting. I have never been to an alternative school so I cannot comment on that. I can understand if what he was doing was a disturbanse to the other students, but it seems like they were isolated and the suspension seemed to just be really unnecessary to me.

Yes, it does seem like an overreaction. I'm just saying there's more to it and at an alternative school, because of the nature of why students are there, if they set a consequence it will be enforced. If they told the student, one more violation of the rules and you're suspended, they will suspended him even for a minor violation because that was the consequence he knew would happen and to not follow through would mean it's okay to break the rules sometimes. Just as your title says be careful way you say, so too do your actions speak louder than words--especially in the case of learning. As for it happening in the hallway...most fights, arguments and other problems happen during passing periods and teacher usually have to monitor those times. At a normal school with more students this isn't an issue what language, but it may be specific to that student to not speak English all day or something like it on his IEP (Individual Education Plan). In which case he was disrupting his own learning even if he wasn't disrupting others. And in an alternative school, the whole school is typically the classroom. Fewer students mean you can monitor more closely and you might notice using another language more than at a larger school.

[Darth Tyranus]

Many of you seem to be missing something, this is a school. They can enforce whatever they want, as long as they can come up with a decent reason for it. If what they did is right or not is totally irrelivant. A school is allowed to create its own rules, unless the government steps in of course.

If the goverment passed a law that said schools must let children speak any language they want, then they have to let them speak whatever they want. But as of right now students don't have freedom of speech, nor should they. If they did nothing would ever get done because of all the moronic arguements that would break out. They could say freedom of speech and continue saying whatever they wanted. If you think this is racist and wrong imagine how bad it would be if students really had full fredom of speech. The racist student could say what ever they want and the school couldn't do a thing about it.

So thankfully students do not have freedom of speech. But you also get crazy and isolated cases like this. Really how rare is something like this though? I can tell you no school I have ever been to has cared. Did the school over react? Yeah they did, but suing seems absurd. Do you really want to take money away from our already floundering school systems? I think there is some major over reacting on both sides of the coin honestly. For my money it's a wash.

[ryoga-one]

when is it ok to suspend him for speakin another language (as long as he isnt using profanity in that language)?

[-akichan-]

If the goverment passed a law that said schools must let children speak any language they want, then they have to let them speak whatever they want. But as of right now students don't have freedom of speech, nor should they. If they did nothing would ever get done because of all the moronic arguements that would break out. They could say freedom of speech and continue saying whatever they wanted. If you think this is racist and wrong imagine how bad it would be if students really had full fredom of speech. The racist student could say what ever they want and the school couldn't do a thing about it.

This is nice, i had a seminar about this topic this morning, and yes we do have the freedom of speech here. Depends on which country you live in.

[MaGeaX~]

Well people should have the right to speak in other languages! It's not bad, and maybe other people feel better speakin in a different language.
But luckly not all places are like that ^^

[Darrmyth]

you have the freedom to speak whatever lanuage you want. but not if you live in China. it is called freedom of speak and we all have the right to say whatever we want. but not if you live in China ^^.

[Wolfwood]

the teachers in my school would sometimes give ya rewards if you were speaking another language. simply to encourage you and reward you for doing something as hard as learning a entirely new way of speaking (i'm sure alot of us know how hard that can be O_o)
i know a bit of japanese, and a teacher from the school i used to go to spoke it very well, so he encouraged me to use that language when talking to him more as practice.

its simply wrong as it removes freedom of speech and ya gotta wonder if that school actualy teaches kids other languages. they probably teach em that every other language is wrong

edit: freedom of speech is a simple right to life here in australia. everyone has it, and i cant see life without it. you do get in trouble for saying something racist or insulting in public... if ya caught doing so ^^; but you can say just bout anything else. like alot of the time we just talk bout how much the goverment sucks ^^. could never do that in some countries O_o

[akiko_kalla]

its simply wrong as it removes freedom of speech and ya gotta wonder if that school actualy teaches kids other languages. they probably teach em that every other language is wrong

No, they normally do not teach other languages. An alternative school is specifically designed for students who do not function in a normal classroom environment. Most of the time is spent addressing basic skills and behaviors. However, they do not teach that other languages are wrong. (How you could do that is beyond me anyway.) It was simply a rule that was broken and not for the first time.