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Thread: The perfect RPG formula

  1. #1
    Illusionist Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon's Avatar
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    Default The perfect RPG formula

    After doing some intense research over the past few days at the sacrifice of sleep and food, I think I've come up with the formula for the perfect role playing game.



    From my research most epics seem to follow this general guideline. Though, how they do it differs from game to game. My research is not complete yet. My theory still feels like it's missing a few things before itís complete, but here's what I've got thus far.



    Input is welcomed and almost requested.



    The Theory for the perfect RPG is based around the game following the following outline of events.



    1) The false plot.

    The false plot is the device the game designers use to draw you, the player, into their story. This usually introduces not only the main character(s) but also gives the player their first taste of the systems battle mechanics along with other sub systems (like mini-games; if any apply). The false plot usually has the main character go to a fairly pointless task such as; going to a fair, kidnapping or finding someone of political importance, or joining up with a mercenary team on a rather routine mission. The false plot is usually easily accomplished, and once the plot points are resolved the player(s) are faced with a bigger problem that they must deal with. This is either out of moral obligation, and or they just get hijacked into it by the plot wagon.*



    2) The first story arch- False Bad Guy

    The problem presented to the player(s) is typically dealt by some meglo-meniacle bad guy hell bent on accomplishing some mission or task. The plot presents this person to be like the be all - end all of evil bad butts around. Though, quite the contrary is found once the fight with them begins. This bad guy/person usually has one if not more goons or henchmen that the player(s) must defeat before they can even conceive of facing him. The player(s) usually also have to adventure through some sub-plots that will be of importance later on for either plot purposes and or extra items of uber power that are optional to quest for. This may or may not have to be done linier to facing the bad guy. Finally, the plot delivers the player(s) and their much leveled up characters on the front doorstep of the evil bad guy's place of power. -They always have a place of power. The player(s) fight and win. The big bad guy that the players thought was the be all- end all of evil turns out to either be; 1) a puppet of a much larger threat that we'll refer to as the Big Nasty*, or 2) a character going about things the "wrong way" to prevent the Big Nasty from gaining or coming into power, and thus joins the group as an uneasy alliance/ anti-hero who's motivations may be questionable.



    3) The Build-up or False Fight:

    The Big Nasty will either run or be inaccessible to the player(s) at this point in time, so they will need to chase/find him/her/it. This gives the players plenty of time to do optional side quests, level up, and find rare items needed later on for sadistically hard plot driven points that may not be necessary for the games completion. Once the players find the Big Nasty's lair (Like forms, the Big Nasty always has at least 2 of these to spare) they usually have to battle some mini-boss dedicated to the service of its master. Then they face the Big Nasty him/her/itself. The Big Nasty in a plot driven fight, usually hands the player(s) their rears for sake of the game designers demonstrating how powerful and to be feared this person is. The Big Nasty runs off again and leaves the player(s) broken and bleeding. The player(s) discover its secret weakness and how it can be defeated. (Never an easy task in itself.) And must now set out to find the item that can be used to exploit the weakness of the Big Nasty. Note: The players discovering the Big Nasty's weakness may in-itself be its own sub-plot.



    4) Third Story Arch: Evil Offensive

    The Big Nasty will now have a strong choke hold on the world and his/her/its evil plans will be in full swing. The player(s) will need to stop the plans from going off or continuing before they can have a hope of defeating the Big Nasty. More time for leveling, finding rare items, and doing mini-games or side quests. To stop the Big Nasty's plans the player(s) usually have to defeat their second in command. The second may or may not be a huge wimp, but will usually be joined by a few loyal associates that are most certainly a large threat to your character(s) safety. With them defeated and the plans stopped, the plot continues to the final fight.



    5) Fourth and Final Arch: The Final Fight

    After the defeat of the second in command the player(s) typically find that the Big Nasty is in another castle. (Strong hold) and they must adventure to find it. Final call for sub-quests, rare items, weapons, and levels. Once the Big Nasty's fortress is discovered, the player(s) can bet it will not be a walk through the park. This level is always one of the most insidiously designed labyrinths of the game. The monsters are always insanely powerful, and this doesn't go for saying how much harder the Big Nasty will be. Once faced, the Big Nasty will have at least 2 different forms, and the fight will be one of epic levels. Defeat the Big Nasty, and you win the game.



    While this theory covers what I believe to be the formula for the "Perfect RPG game" there are a few other side notes I'd like to mention.



    Most good RPG's will at some point throw the following at you:

    1) A graveyard scene of some sorts.

    2) A betrayal of a close friend/supporting character

    3) A death of a close character if not the main character or the main character's (possible) love interest.

    4) A hidden fight with a monster so hideously over powered you'd have to be on crack to even consider the possibility of fighting it.

    5) The hideously over powered monster you'd have to be on crack to consider fighting it's younger brother thatís service is employed by one of the bigger baddies in the game. In other words- a forced fight.

    6) A chase scene.

    7) Good music or soundtrack.


    I hope you've enjoyed this post. And if you have any input please, leave it.





    *Plot Wagon: A term coined by the "Gamer Chick" to refer to the device used by the game master to wrangle control of the story back from the players and continue with the plot. Also see- Getting run over by the plot wagon, hijacking the plot wagon, and having the plot wagon parked on top of yourself.



    *Big Nasty: A term coined by the "Gamer Chick" to refer to the ultimate bad guy and end boss of the game. The main antagonist.
    Last edited by Lon; 08-09-2005 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Added another point

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Illusionist Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon's Avatar
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    How so?

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    Hmmm.... Sounds pretty good...

    I was thinking about Final Fantasy VII, and Lunar SSS while I was reading it... <_< >_>

  5. #5
    Illusionist Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon's Avatar
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    Well when I said I've been doing research, I did research Final Fantasy 7,8,9,and 10 along with Chrono Cross, Lunar SSS, Chrono Trigger, and a few others.

  6. #6
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    Pretty good. I have to say #3 is the most important one to me



  7. #7
    Illusionist Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon's Avatar
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    #3 is a huge one! That is always the point in the game where the most character development happens, the characters grow up a bit, you get the most freedom on the world map, usually the air ship if your in a FF game, and also, it is where the story gets the most interesting. Really... if a game messes up on this step. Then it really doesn't have much of a hope for making it as a good rpg.

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    I would say that is a good srtucture for the story. HOwever, I always love to see unique plots.

    She really needs to lay off the Meow Mix...

    Please, read my blog? UPDATE:8/9

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    well I'm not saying that each game does not have its own unique plot. Final Fantasy 8 and Chrono Trigger for example both have two very very diffrent plots. BUT there is a simularity between these two games. And there is another simularity between any rpg that has made it any where near popular and others that have as well. When I noticed this, I tried to figure out what is at the core of each of these games that make them tick. And the theory that I came up with as my answer is what I've outlined above.

    In short, you can use the out line above, and most good RPG's do, to create the game but as for the plot is concerned, that is an easly tweekable varible.

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    Very sharp and acurate analysis. I have often wondered myself what the core of most RPG's was, and came to the excact conclusion as you do.

    A thing to ad in the afterwords: Sometimes RPG's tweak, or leave out some of the basics in order to come up with an original/dramatic story. A good example would be games in which you never fight the Big Nasty. This is usually replaced by a sort of final test which will involve a huge battle with some random Łber moster to prove the main characters abilities to keep the world safe (a good example being Golden Sun).
    RPG bios (click for more info):

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    hmm...i was thinking of some other rpgs when i read your formula star ocean2, legend of legaia, but doesnt the battle system help make a good rpg too?

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    Actually, yes. The battle system is very important because if the BS sucks, then you won't bother with all the time needed to level your character, thus meaning you won't play the game.

  13. #13
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    The good news is I think I've even re-defined my theory even more by expanding off of plot points and more into the type of characters that make up a good RP. I'll be posting that as soon as I can type it all out.

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    You all are overlooking one MAJOR point. This research is based off Squaresoft's work. Square does have an irrefeudable analytical bias because it's THEIR series. It's their formula. If you look at older RPG's, and even some of the new ones, it's not even like that anymore. Usually it goes something like this.

    1.) First plot event, story arch number ONE.
    They introduce you to mechanics in some odd way, before this is the opening traditional Cinema. The characters are introduced, and There is something that you have to do to ADVANCE the storyline. In Square's works, this consists of going and saving town after town from evil baddies. That's not all bad, but it's rediculously redundant. No one has mentioned Final Fantasy 1-6, nor tactics, just 7-10 2, and most of those were crap anyways (Well, not 7, 10 had a good battle system, the rest were crap. 8 was OK.) But back to the point. It's just some story event to advance the storyline in ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

    2.) Losing someone or something betrays you. Story arch number two.
    That's again, relevant to square's games. If you look even closer, The bad guy is the extremity of the good guy (The main at least). It's a pendulum of sorts. In this case, it's to further advance storyline. This, or someone dies - most RPG's have your friend or someone close to you die, usually revealing the true plot.

    3.) You eventually figure out the true plot, Story arch numero three.
    If i haven't lost you yet, then good. Remember that after the death or betrayel of someone close to you brings out the true storyline. For instance, in Final Fantasy 6, Kefka betrayed you and then BAM! Meril died. It was a pain and shocking blow, but it advanced the storyline enough to learn the true plot. The true story plot is now what the story follows.

    4.)Other Events that lead up to the main boss, story arch Number four.
    This is all the crap you do before you go to the boss, this includes cinema's, actual events, and just numerous side quests that you do. Most of the time it's just storyline crap that advance the plot further. There usually another person betrays you and an enemy becomes your friend.

    5.) The main boss, story arch number five.
    This is where the primary boss comes into action, and the bosses before the said primary boss.

    6.) Story arch six, the after events.
    This is after the boss, usually just a bunch of stuff to help you figure out the storyline and a huge cinema for beating the game.

    Note, most RPG's follow this format, however the Shin Megami Tensei series does NOTHING of the sort. Usually RPG's you're the good guy, in SMT, you're the freakin' guy who is supposed to decide the world's fate after a bunch of lunatics send it into the apocalypse where devils are now humans. Yeah, it's a great game, and non-traditional.

    Realize that not all RPG's are Final Fantasy. Granted that's a large section, but when you sit and think about it, recently square hasn't been living up to it's title. The last Star Ocean was crap, and that was a major blow because that was a good series. Look at the Suikoden Series. The fourth was horrid, but the rest were incredible. RPG's are DECLINING because no one plays them anymore. MMORPG's, Action/Adventure (If another person consider's this a freakin' RPG i'll shoot them.), and just games like Kill stuff, upgrade, resume. Those are the MAIN BASIS of gaming today. God of war, incredible game, horrendisly repetitive hack and slash. Games are more focused on the graphics than the storyline, and that's what's hurting the business. Unknown companies like NIS (Nippon Ichi Software), Atlus, and Working designs make the really great RPG's that people remember. Don't think i'm saying Square hasn't made good RPG's, realize that most of their's are just a regurgitation because they're running out of ideas. Capcom has made some decent RPG's, and so has Sony.

    All of the above is just MY oppinion, and it's the only one that counts. =P

  15. #15
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    Well if you REALLY want to over analize the thing, all new RPG's like all old RPG's are just stories at heart. And all stories follow the same format.

    Introduction, minor conflict, The resolve of the minor conflict, Major Conflict, climax, and then conclusion/ resolution.

    How any of the stories go about delivering these things is up to them. My mission was to understand what qualities the RPG games over the past decade possessed, then create an outline or structure for my theory of how to make the "perfect" RPG.
    I theorize that there must be a connection between any decient RPG game out there that is popular. Something each game does that is common to others of the same caliber. My mission is to figure out just what that common denomenator is, define it, and then use it to reproduce kick rear games for my own game group.

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    I was just putting in my two cents. If you really want to make a lot of money on games, make one similar to Everquest, and World of Warcraft. Those things sell like hotcakes, and World of Warcraft is fun, Everquest is just...well, demonic.

  17. #17
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    Well noted too though. I mean... Nocturn does take a very unique path through what other games would have done difrently. And it kicked rear for it

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    nice break-down of the elements.
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    You must like to play Fable. Most of that is what was used in Fable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Love_Miroku
    You lost me.... @_@
    me too. @_@

  21. #21
    3D Render Doyen Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san has a reputation beyond repute Keitaru-san's Avatar
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    the perfect rpg is that one will surprise me becuase most of games are like so i know whats happen next even in movies thats why i like to be surprise if a game surprise me that would be good(perfect when it will surprise me all time)
    i am daron devil I Defy heaven and hell.

    check this out to play a cool game
    http://keitaru-san.mybrute.com
    it is sweet

    http://www.animeforum.com/showthread...20#post1994520
    you like what you see? then contact me cuz i am taking request 1 AT TIME!

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