Issue of the day

[Balet Scarlet Terror]

A question must be discussed!


ISSUE OF THE DAY!!!!

Today's Issue ...* Should the president call off the war in Iraq?*

[Chief wahrong fahorum]

Aww come on. All this will lead to is endless arguing and flaming.

[Pakachu]

No.... its too late, we're already caught in a major catch 22.


we stay in:
-more people die
-more crap from other nations=strained relations

we back off:
-all of those who died already will have died for nothing cuz the minute we bounce outta there the militants own the place.
-we become the ___ of every terrorist group out there cuz they'll know that the us will back off if they fight hard enough.

[Balet Scarlet Terror]

Probably,but It is facinating to hear everyone's opinion on this issue.

[Zedekiah]

No.

Nuke the place.
Make a parking lot on the ruins.

[shi_amai]

Yes. War is wrong and stupid. It just makes people hate us more, and I really hate death.

[sword_master]

we are too far into the war and beside he has to finish what his daddyu started. Also bush cant say nuclear let alone shoot them at iraq

[Tyr]

Either way, there are still going to be many more deaths, so I propose a completely new kind of strategy. We (by which I mean, you) ask the leaders round to your house for a lunch of tea and marshmallow squares, and calmly discuss what you are going to do about said problem.

There. No bloodshed. Wasn't that simple?

[Annik]

Dear President Bush,

I am not handwriting this because I am, simply put, lazy. I’ve decided to tell people how I feel and so before I decide not to again, I wanted to write you a letter. Since I’m on the computer, I’m going to use a word processor. Well, here it is. You make me sad. When people like you get into office twice in a row, it’s plain that something is wrong with our country. Not that it wasn’t plain before, but this makes it painfully blunt. Now, I don’t know why we are in Iraq. Everyone knows you lied about the weapons of mass destruction, so why are you still there? Almost everyone thinks that it is either a grudge against the poor guys or it’s for their oil.

Sure, the way they treat women isn’t all that great, but it’s none of our business. The most we should do is make it so that women who don’t want to be treated that way have a way out. We can’t assume that all of them think like us. And we can’t assume that they SHOULD think like us. We’ve been around for 200 years so far and we’re acting like the Right Hand of God. I think these other people, with their cultures, should be left well enough alone.

So instead of spending so much money on trying to nuke the funny looking people, we should attempt to solve our own problems. Why not fund the arts or science departments? Why not try and fix our own unemployment and homeless situation? Why not try and feed our starving people? Welfare sucks at the moment, so why don’t you do something?

When you’re in a position of power, you shouldn’t use it for your own ends. If that’s your plan you should just give up.

Besides, you’re making a lot of people hate America right now and that’s not fair.

Sincerely,
He Who Is I Am.

[Variable_Gunbuster]

Politics...what a bunch of bull. Don't you know it's the most dangerous business in the world, a business that takes casualties along with it. Yes, this is all it is....business, Bush want's the OIL. Michael Moore's Documentary is a good watch, brings up alot of great points. Oh, by the way Nokizaru, I really liked you're post...very thoughtful and considerate; I'm sure the children and the woman would love it too.

EDIT:: Nice post Annik, very intelligent....even though I ain't... . Also the media is horrible, every single day about 12,000 children die of starvation around the world. But more sympathy was shown for the victims of September 11. I feel for those people at the Two Towers I really, really do, they died cuz of the actions their president made...or should I say, for the actions they should have done but ignored them. Anyways, Don't watch CNN!! it's evil!

[Himura Enishi]

Sure, the way they treat women isn’t all that great, but it’s none of our business. The most we should do is make it so that women who don’t want to be treated that way have a way out. We can’t assume that all of them think like us. And we can’t assume that they SHOULD think like us. We’ve been around for 200 years so far and we’re acting like the Right Hand of God. I think these other people, with their cultures, should be left well enough alone.

So instead of spending so much money on trying to nuke the funny looking people, we should attempt to solve our own problems. Why not fund the arts or science departments? Why not try and fix our own unemployment and homeless situation? Why not try and feed our starving people? Welfare sucks at the moment, so why don’t you do something?

1) See, the whole left alone part, that was fine and dandy until they flew huge airplanes into buildings in NY, but i'm sure that was an accident. But by your logic I guess we should of stayed out of the world wars, those poor axis members only wanted Europe and Asia, whyd we have to get involved? No one liked Pearl Harbor anyway . Hey, lets leave tsunami victims alone too, it's their own problem we didn't have anything to do with it

2) What are YOU doing to solve any of the world's or even our own countries problems? Have you joined amnesty international? Do you actively volunteer around your neighborhood or donate spare change to relief funds or community projects?

3) Welfare sucks...well if you're complaining about the corporate welfare aka 'lack of jobs' or 'stock market sucking', I invite you to please take a step back and look at the big picture...our GDP is roughly $ 10,990,000,000,000, 20% of the world's entire GDP and the largest single country economy in the world. And I don't know about what part of the country you live in, but most people around the US will agree that if you want a job bad enough, you can get it. It's the lazy American attitude that places people out of jobs because they prefer sitting home and getting government hand-outs

[Pakachu]

No.

Nuke the place.
Make a parking lot on the ruins.

see... that was my plan too. well kinda...
my plan was to hit it with so many nuke's it'd be the worlds biggest punch bowl, then after the last few glowing surviviors surrender and put down their rocks we could win back the rest of the worlds favor by filling the entire thing with punch and vodka and haveing the worlds largest nakid pool party!!!!
but... then i thought about how most of the world looks and smells so i decided that might not be the best idea...

well... the fall out might suck too but wasnt too concerned about that at the time.


oh... and by the way, we ARE the right hand of God. why?
Cause we have the bombs and the ability to deliver them. i mean, where else would God keep His nukes?

[Annik]

1) See, the whole left alone part, that was fine and dandy until they flew huge airplanes into buildings in NY, but i'm sure that was an accident. But by your logic I guess we should of stayed out of the world wars, those poor axis members only wanted Europe and Asia, whyd we have to get involved? No one liked Pearl Harbor anyway . Hey, lets leave tsunami victims alone too, it's their own problem we didn't have anything to do with it

First of all, would you like to know why they flew the airplanes into the twin towers? They hate us. They hate us because America stands for everything they are against - NOT freedom, but the self absorbed foolishness. They are religious FANATICS, to be sure. When WE are bombed, we retaliate. I have NO problem with that. However, we GOT who we came for, and we should be GONE. But we're drawing it out. And, yes. LEAVE THE TSUNAMI VICTIMS ALONE. WE have enough crap going on as it is. We should fix OUR problems before preaching to others.

2) What are YOU doing to solve any of the world's or even our own countries problems? Have you joined amnesty international? Do you actively volunteer around your neighborhood or donate spare change to relief funds or community projects?

I don't believe in community projects. I think it's a load of bull. And truthfully, I know when to steer clear of things I know I will mess up. I, as a person, have a hard time cooperating with others to do anything. I also feel that those organizations do nothing. To actually fix problems you have to change the way people think. That way they'll help themselves.

3) Welfare sucks...well if you're complaining about the corporate welfare aka 'lack of jobs' or 'stock market sucking', I invite you to please take a step back and look at the big picture...our GDP is roughly $ 10,990,000,000,000, 20% of the world's entire GDP and the largest single country economy in the world. And I don't know about what part of the country you live in, but most people around the US will agree that if you want a job bad enough, you can get it. It's the lazy American attitude that places people out of jobs because they prefer sitting home and getting government hand-outs

Sure, sure. But, as always, the cheaper labor gets the jobs, not the people who actually have the education.

[Moved_to_new_account]

ha ha ha Pkachu. I think the troops should move out. Why you ask? TO PULL A MERCENARY, you know, the commercial of the game. After they move out, we can blow the living C*** out of it with a nuke. THen... we can blow the living C*** out of it again with another nuke. ANd then we could blow the living C*** out of anyone who defies da USA. Seriously though, we shoudl jsut keep on fighting, why put the lost lives at vain right?

[Gjallarhorn]

i think it would be best for us to leave our troops in iraq until about a month after the elections take place, just for slight insurance that there is no major attacks due to the elections. then, after than, we should slowly bring home troops in large groups, so we back off carefully. Then, the new Iraqi government should have full power without the U.S. interfering. Its not our job to be the police of the world. also, dont blame this whole thing on Bush, it was his and our governments decision to go to war, even if it was based (mostly) on unjustified evidence.

[Moved_to_new_account]

hey, don't forget there are still bad little iraqs. WE got to show all terrorist a thing or else this'll just happen agian. *starts playing Dessert Storm on Gamecube*

[Tyr]

[QUOTE=dark evo chaos x]ANd then we could blow the living C*** out of anyone who defies da USA.QUOTE]

Ah, the old "blow the crap out of anyone who disobeys the leader" routine. That sounds suspiciously familiar... didn't Saddam have a similar routine in place? Isn't that one of the reasons that USA invaded Iraq in the first place; to stop the dictatorship? Hypocritical America.

One day they are going to have to learn that more or less everyone outside of their pretty country hates them. So, by your logic, everyone except the USA is going to be killed. America needs to realise that just because they are the most powerful country in the world, it doesn't give them the right to decide who can and who can't do whatever.

I look forward to the nukes, flames and general angryness arriving at my doorstep. Toodles until then, mes amis.

[Moved_to_new_account]

hey, it was only a joke, but I really do think we have to stay in there a bit more. People say this war has been bad, I agree but saying we should evacuate our troops is a disgrace. With all the lost lives, if more countries attack, the lost lives will have been in vain. NOw lets blow the living crap out of the buildings in Iraq with a bomb and then destroy 50 buildings in arow just because we can and then use two grenades for enemy tanks when one is just good enoiugh

[Tyr]

Yes, I know you meant it as a joke, but the worrying thing is that Mr Bush doesn't seem to realise that. He seems to be going along the line of "Shoot anyone who steps out of line." And to have the guy who commands the most power in the world having that kind of attitude, quite frankly, scares the hell out of me.

I don't think that pulling out our troops is a good idea, but there doesn't seem to be much option left if we want to prevent the loss of further life. America will suffer though, since they will then be seen as pushovers, but being sent out to fight in Iraq is becoming less of a noble duty and more of a death sentence. More and more Iraqis are deciding that America and whomever else is fighting on America's side (Yes, the British are there too) are an oppressive enemy. Since there will be more of them, more casualties will be soon to follow. Surely the prevention of America slightly losing face isn't worth scores of young soldiers being sent to their deaths.

[Pakachu]

ya know... it seems like everyone keeps saying that, yet by that token we should have decalered war on china, korea and france by now.

[Annik]

ya know... it seems like everyone keeps saying that, yet by that token we should have decalered war on china, korea and france by now.

Maybe we have, they just haven't announced it yet.

[gadgetgirl16]

man, another thread about the war...*grins*..but Suzaku is right.....in some places....

[Pakachu]

Maybe we have, they just haven't announced it yet.

lol
thats why i try to watch BBC.
they tell ya things the US don't.

[~kagome~]

Yeah they should call it off

[sjøpølse]

Although Annik already pretty well answered to this, I differ on a few points and have some more to add.

1) See, the whole left alone part, that was fine and dandy until they flew huge airplanes into buildings in NY, but i'm sure that was an accident. But by your logic I guess we should of stayed out of the world wars, those poor axis members only wanted Europe and Asia, whyd we have to get involved? No one liked Pearl Harbor anyway . Hey, lets leave tsunami victims alone too, it's their own problem we didn't have anything to do with it

There's a slight difference between helping a country devastated by a natural catastroph and interfering with an whole culture and population for more than wobbly reasons. And there's also a difference between actions commited in war time on non-civilian people and massive people killing. So I beg you not to introduce remnants of an old patriotic anger and go see the movie if you want so much to recycle an obsolete grudge.

As for the reasons that led to the events of 9/11, they are various. And the reason is not: "because they are muslims and live in Iraq". There is, along with many, the israelo-palestinian conflict. There's also the american hegemony that disturbs many. And various others. And perhaps was the "war against terrorism" even planned, foreseen, now encouraging religious integrism and causing formerly independant and badly-organized groups to become allied, thus creating a bigger and more efficient force. Am I going paranoid? Maybe. But all the repression that followed 9/11 wasn't hard to predict.

And not that I approve the mean or the goal, but is the terrorists' will to culturally dominate the world (if that is really what they want) anyhow worse than the american hegemony and ever-lasting pursuing of "the American Dream", obviously to the detriment of a great part of the planet's population, as well as its resources, vegetation and fauna?

2) What are YOU doing to solve any of the world's or even our own countries problems? Have you joined amnesty international? Do you actively volunteer around your neighborhood or donate spare change to relief funds or community projects?

As Annik said, those actions are nice, kind beautiful, bla bla bla; help one to boost his ego while thinking "I'm good for my community" but aren't efficient enough to really change things. Unless done massively, and then again, they induce temporary effects and are a mere band-aid over a deeper wound. At the roots things must be changed and it begins with ideals and one society's general behavior.

3) Welfare sucks...well if you're complaining about the corporate welfare aka 'lack of jobs' or 'stock market sucking', I invite you to please take a step back and look at the big picture...our GDP is roughly $ 10,990,000,000,000, 20% of the world's entire GDP and the largest single country economy in the world. And I don't know about what part of the country you live in, but most people around the US will agree that if you want a job bad enough, you can get it. It's the lazy American attitude that places people out of jobs because they prefer sitting home and getting government hand-outs

Some people really do need this help. Who are you to tell who should deserve it and who shouldn't? Plus, the USA are not especially recognized for their overwhelming fund attributed to welfare...

Sure, there are slackers everywhere. But some of them are also paid millions per year being the eighth chairman of a multi-billionar company.
-------------------------------------------------------

As for the "hatred" (which is not really hatred) of the USA, there are numerous reasons:

1- This kind of "God bless America" and "We Are The Right Hand of God" attitude. Coming from a country preaching in middle-east for a seperation between religion and church, the hypocrisy is bold.

2- This omni-presence of american culture everywhere, brought mainly by economic reasons, but still sometimes engulfing others. Or sometimes just plain ridiculous (i.e.: "Texas Steakhouse" in the middle of Nepal, so that tourists feel just like at home, or the presence of a McDonald right next to millenary roman ruins).

3- American ETHNOCENTRISM. Heck, this word is quite recent (1906) and was adapted to french even more recently (1961) just to caracterize the american culture expansion taking place in those years. Sociologists from all around the world (outside the US, that is) agree to say the United States suffer of a blatant form of this. 'Cause there is a difference between patriotism and... that. A good example of this ethnocentrism, mixed with ignorance, was this american man, in its fair fifties asking me if "the new year in Canada is the same that in the USA".

Finally: perhaps should the country cut on the war's budget only ONE day and allow those funds to an educational or social institution. ONE day. How much did the war cost? $300 millions per day, approximately? Still that is a pretty large amount of money. Imagine, if that war had been shortenned by less than two months, $300 M could have been redistributed to each an every american state and each and everyone of them would have been quite happy with it, for sure. Now that appears to me like a fairly more decent kind of patriotism: being proud of self and encouraging population.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that most the people outside the United States don't loathe US and Americans, but rather dislike the general attitude and vehiculated values.

-sigh- long post. Which means: it won't be read.

edit: pardon the mistakes, I'm deadly tired.