Coulda-woulda-shoulda-didn't

[Clayton_n]

Which American cartoon characters do you think could-would-should have been lesbian or gay if the creators didn't think it was "icky"? Why do you think that?


Note: I started this thread for two reasons

One: It's come up in a lot of other threads (heck there are a dozen yuri/yaoi threads in the Japanese section) and not just by me, so i thought we'd have one where people can discuss it.

Two: It'll piss off the homophobes. Something everyone should do as often as possible.


Also I don't want to hear any complaining. Not only do a large number of anime series have at least one openly gay person on the cast, but the topic was clearly spelled out. Nobody is forcing you to read it or participate. If you don't like it don't post anything and leave the rest of us to discuss this as we see fit. Otherwise be prepared for a flame war.





Kim Possible and Shego... the perfect couple


Shego: Can I eat that taco?


Korra (hey she was married to Katara and it's better than imagining Aang with boys)




Wonder Woman... because thousands of years on an island with no men






Disney Princesses... at least those who move into the castle together after ditching the guys




Elmer Fudd... unless Elmer likes hairy women

[DeathBlade/13.666]

This is another case of perverts making mountains out of gopher holes.


Look if the creator and artist intended on having a gay or lesbian couple in a cartoon, they'd PUT IT IN THERE, POINT BLANK, AND OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE WITH NO CONFUSION TO BE HAD.


Fans shipping two characters of the same sex doesn't count as a lesbian/gay subplot.


Why don't creators put more lesbian and gays into cartoons? Because of people like you. You already strive for things that aren't there and pervert them in your own mind, so having an actual lesbian/gay couple would essentially be porn to you on the account that all you'd want is to see them make love and do none of the things actual gays and lesbians do on a daily basis (ie: live normal and productive lives). Hell there are creators out there with great works just waiting to be published, but they get trashed just because the creator doesn't wish to put up with any fan's nonsense about this sort of thing.

Also, I'm keeping this thread under a very watchful eye. If it even looks to becoming a flame/spam war it will be closed and trashed.

Keep it civil and keep it clean.

[Clayton_n]

Ah, see there's the problem right there. Why on earth do you think it's perverted?


I mean you want to go there in Disney they kill people's parents, marry off sixteen year olds, have a prince kiss the corpse at a funeral, and more.

Why is it okay for boy-girls to kiss but not just girls or boys? Personally I don't feel anything for boy-boy relationships, but I don't see how it's any more disgusting than a standard boy-girl relationship. And until you can explain in detail WHY it should matter, please feel free to STFU. I mean how unclear was I in the first post that you did not grasp the point of this thread?








Gwen and Charmcaster from ben 10 (Seriously this pairing is WHY they brought Kevin in as a good guy...)





90% of the cast of My Little Pony because it's a 9-1 ratio of girls to guys in that show. Plus in Equstria girls apparently Twilights friends rented a limo to go to the dance with each other.

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Ah, see there's the problem right there. Why on earth do you think it's perverted?

Because it's just fans wanting to see x and y character in a solid relationship (the creepier ones want to see more). Completely regardless of any facts that might stop such or things would make such things seem silly and/or null-n-void, they come up with this crap and parade around like it's absolute truth that x and y characters are meant to be together. If it was meant to be, then the creators would make it so. But no, you take an image of two characters glancing at each other, remove any and all context to the actual scene at hand or take the entire scene out of context, and supply your own made up context to fit your views. There's no real relationship, just "These two together would be hawt, someone make it so!" And worst of it is the fact that all you seem to show is glances and kisses (Thankfully no porn), there's more to a relationship than that; homo or hetero, it doesn't matter. I mean, at least in Game of Thrones there's two dudes talking sweetly over problems and politics while one shaves the other's chest.

[Ωmega]

This thread should have the title changed to "Claytons shipping fantasy"

[Clayton_n]

*Shrugs* As you say. I don't see why it's wrong for the fans to want that or for that matter why they wouldn't do it. Look at My Little Pony. From season 2 on they put in a lot of fan ideas, even names for characters like Derpy.


The creators certainly do it. In the original Little Mermaid for example she does NOT get the prince.

I'm talking about romance here though, not sex. Like I said nobody who doesn't enjoy this sort of thing has to participate.

I've been giving it some thought though, and I fail to see how in the Disney Princess movies how changing the princes to princesses would have altered the stories. Princess Eric instead of Prince Eric for example Most of the Disney princesses would be happy wih ANYONE who could take them out of their castle/shack in the woods/whatever.

Alladin and Beauty and the Beast however probably would have had a better feel for the morals of their stories however, what with the whole loving people reguardless of their outsides and Be Yourself lessons.

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Yea, in the original tale, the mermaid didn't get the prince and had the choice of killing him and becoming a mermaid again or dying. She eventually choose her own death in the end and was rewarded by God for not sinning with an immortal soul and ascension into heaven... Gotta love that Hans Christian Anderson. No where in there was her having another relationship with someone else. The only other relationship was with the prince and the temple girl/princess whom he believed saved him from drowning.

[Clayton_n]

Actually she had to work 300 years to get that soul. Also according to many historians Han wrote the story as a parody of his own failed homosexual relationship.


But what U was saying is that most Disney stories are altered from the originals to give a feeling that wasn't there before. Hera and Zeus in Herculese for example. Frozen isn't even CLOSE.

 

Like i was saying though, for example in Alladin if you replaces Alladdin with say the human version of Ariel (at least until the genie turns her into a rpince) how would that have changed the story? At all?





"It's that LAW that's the problem. From this day forth the princess can marry whomever she deems worthy."

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Yes they take a lot of royalities and churn them into something cute for the whole family to watch, But where in any storyline did Ariel go to the Middle East (presumably) and shack up with a Arabian Princess? Only in a fan's dreams.

[Clayton_n]

Hey she lived under the sea and Agrabah has a thriving port. I saw the Alladin TV series too you know.

And I meant she'd still be Alladin. Just as played by Ariel.

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Under the sea is kind of vague... I mean there could be ten miles from Jasmine and Ariel's home or 40,000 leagues or more....

[Clayton_n]

Or right next door. I mean in the movie it was conveniently close to Eric's kingdom.



Still, why wouldn't Gwen and Charmcaster make a MUCH better and more believable couple than her and Kevin?

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Or right next door. I mean in the movie it was conveniently close to Eric's kingdom.

Ok, prove it. Show me the setting locations on a map.

[Clayton_n]

I would, but the scroll I drew it on didn't do so well under water.

[Ωmega]

Hey she lived under the sea and Agrabah has a thriving port. I saw the Alladin TV series too you know.

And I meant she'd still be Alladin. Just as played by Ariel.

No, she didnt.




HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE distance.

Even if you go by the fan theory that the sunken ship Ariel explores is the ship Elsa and Anna's parents die on -



It puts Ariel off of Denmark [where the original story takes place], which is still WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far away for her to just swim on over to the coast of what looks to be Pakistan [looking at the first map].

[Clayton_n]

I suspect Ursula's cave is a backdoor intot he Cave of Wonders.

Anyway I was saying Ariel AS Alladin, not as a mermaid. picture her doing this in Alladin's place






disney id sort of do a crossover with them aside from Once Upon a Time you know. Alladin 3, Kingdom hearts...








if nothing else I know Ariel and Jasmine both live in the Disney Princess Castle, Jasmine did leave Alladin for Stitch, and they've met at The House of Mouse



jasmine: Pst, is Melody eighteen yet?

[Yung A$$eroya]

I instantly felt dirty upon entering this thread

[Clayton_n]

I'm talking about romance, not just sex you feebs. So let me get this straight, a fish falling for a human is fine (Just accept it and dont' make me mention Ponyo). An eight foot tall beast in love with a five foot tall girl is okay. A god and a human, fine. brother-sister lions, no problem.

Two girls with a lot in common... that's dirty?

[Yung A$$eroya]

I honestly think romantic-subplots are unnecessary and pointless. If you want to watch a romantic movie, buy Twilight dunno whatever, bro

[Clayton_n]

I honestly think romantic-subplots are unnecessary and pointless. If you want to watch a romantic movie, buy Twilight dunno whatever, bro

yes... i agree... i'm sure the Disney movies would have been FINE without any romance. I'm sure nobody even remembers any of that stuff (somewhere a sarcasm meter explodes)

 

All I'm saying is that you could get the same or better effect by replacing the princes with a princess.

Again nobody is forcing you to participate here you know.

[Yung A$$eroya]

All I'm saying is that you could get the same or better effect by replacing the princes with a princess.

Again nobody is forcing you to participate here you know.

If so, is there any point at all in changing it? I do agree with you at some extent, but I don't see why it's such a big deal. And yes, I am aware of that fact, but I wanted to see what the all the buzz around this topic was about and I accidentally got in on the discussion.

[Clayton_n]

Well Beauty and the Beast definately loses something when he turns into a prince. I mean what's the point of that? At least if he's turned out to be a princess they could have kept the whole "love for the person inside" moral.


I mentioned ben 10's gwen and Charmcaster because the whole Kevin thing makes no sense, not only because he's a villain, but because int he first version of the show we saw them go to the future where kevin was grade A psychopath. There was another one where she and someone else was travelling magical landscapes. Or in WINX where Flora and the pumpkin girl Mirta obviously had a thing and suddenly she has a prince.



As for the whole Jasmine Ariel thing, that's just an example I was using for Disney that got kind of blown out of hand. A better one to go with might have been Fairy Hollow and Tinkerbell perhapse where like My Little Pony the girls outnumber the guys ten to one. Or once upon a Time, since a lot of peopel like Emma/Regina... and really why add Robinhood to the cast as a love interest otherwise, when he's supposed to have maid Marrian?

 

The point of this thread is to find the ones where they clearly stuck people into a relationship not because it made sense, but simply to avoid having a gay relationship. Acting as if it was soem dirty secret, rather than perfectly natural for a small but signifigant portion of the world since the dawn of time.

now personally I like girls in lesbian relationships, but if you see oen that would work with two guys feel free.


Anyway if people just stopped making it taboo it wouldn't be a big deal, but people like certain ones who have posted here keep acting like it's "icky" as if they had a choice about feeling that way and make them feel bad, like they're doing something wrong. As if pretending to beotherwise would make it all better. Like I always say, when people become apathetic towards it,t hen we'll be in a good place. Like how most peopel don't care when they see a black and white person together these days.

 

It's no more icky than any other relationship and there's no logical reason not to allow it into cartoons. God knows it works in japan.


Anyway there are WAY more disgusting relationships than lesbian or gay.

[Clayton_n]

After taking a weekend to think about it I should also add that the times I've seen two guys kissing, I've never felt the urge to join in.

Seriously if a lifetime of being a certain way can be undone by watching a few cartoon characters kiss... well lets just say the underlying issues probably aren't based on the cartoon. If it happens to bring something to the surface... isn't that a good thing?





http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...yer_detailpage

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Still is seems to me that you're taking a causal friendship or sibling relationship and trying to turn it into a love relationship, whereas you're upset that the creators didn't make your head-fannon into actual cannon. I see nothing there indicative of a love relationship in anything you have posted yet. Just mere wishful thinking. You can't even keep such thinking in the realms of the characters universes either. The girl from Tangled with the girl from Hotel Transylvania? First of, not only is there a time different. There's a setting difference, and there's a universe difference. Tangled is in the Disney Universe, and Hotel Transylvania is in the Sony Universe. Seriously dude... And Harley & Ivy's relationship is a pure friendship between girl villians. And honestly that's something Harley really needs in her abusive relationship with the Joker.

[Clayton_n]

SO where are the cartoons, in America, that has relationships like that and why aren't there any?


As for Harley and Ivy... this is from a real comic