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Thread: Anime = Cartoons

  1. #1
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    Default Anime = Cartoons

    Firstly, let me say that anime is my favorite form of animation and I am in no way putting it down.

    I never understood why some anime fans take the calling of anime a cartoon an insult. Is it due to people thinking that just because Japan makes it means it is not considered a cartoon? Do certain fans take it as an insult or them lowering the standards of anime?

    I feel like anime being called a cartoon is less of an insult and just people stating the facts. The word "Cartoon" stems far back in history and basically is a term used for animation. Some people feel the term cartoon should only be limited to North American animation and not animation as a whole. Anime is made very well and like I said is my favorite form of animation, but everyone has a different opinion.

    Discuss.
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    I always thought it was silly how certain anime fans grab pitchforks and are willing to burn someone at the stake when someone calls anime cartoons. The silliest argument is when the term "anime" is used to exclude, if you will, any animation that is not Japanese, on the basis of anime being "superior" to non-Japanese animation, seeing as how Japanese would refer to The Simpsons, South Park, or any other animation as "anime."

    I personally think it depends on what you mean by "superior." Do you mean the drawing is superior, and if so, in what way? Realism? Fluid action? Bright flashing lights everywhere? Or perhaps the stories are more "serious" or "better written?" If so, explain yourselves.

    It all comes down to personal taste. Non-Japanese animation can be just as good, if not better, than Japanese anime, if your personal tastes [and a little bit of open-mindedness] allow it to be. I love anime, but when I saw an entire Facebook fan-page and it's users typing angrily behind a keyboard over "haters" and "fake anime fans" calling anime cartoons, I have to facepalm. Animation is animation. Even though anime has a very distinct style, hearing someone call your favorite anime a cartoon should NOT be considered fighting words.

    /semi-rant
    Last edited by Velvet_Nightmare; 08-23-2013 at 12:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Anime.. equivalent of cartoons in japan.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Velvet_Nightmare View Post
    I always thought it was silly how certain anime fans grab pitchforks and are willing to burn someone at the stake when someone calls anime cartoons. The silliest argument is when the term "anime" is used to exclude, if you will, any animation that is not Japanese, on the basis of anime being "superior" to non-Japanese animation, seeing as how Japanese would refer to The Simpsons, South Park, or any other animation as "anime."

    I personally think it depends on what you mean by "superior." Do you mean the drawing is superior, and if so, in what way? Realism? Fluid action? Bright flashing lights everywhere? Or perhaps the stories are more "serious" or "better written?" If so, explain yourselves.

    It all comes down to personal taste. Non-Japanese animation can be just as good, if not better, than Japanese anime, if your personal tastes [and a little bit of open-mindedness] allow it to be. I love anime, but when I saw an entire Facebook fan-page and it's users typing angrily behind a keyboard over "haters" and "fake anime fans" calling anime cartoons, I have to facepalm. Animation is animation. Even though anime has a very distinct style, hearing someone call your favorite anime a cartoon should NOT be considered fighting words.

    /semi-rant
    My reply to the bolded. Family Guy and etc are not anime, but are cartoons. Anime is a term used for a genre of cartoons, but are still cartoons either way. Cartoons is a term used to describe animation, but anime is actually a genre that stems from cartoons/animation so don't confuse the definitions!
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    I've kind of always been in the same boat as you. I love anime, obviously, but it's still animated and that's all "cartoon" means, really. Or, if you want to get technical, even if it's not animated, as long as it's created artificially since you've also got things like political cartoons you see in newspapers. But either way anime is still technically a cartoon. Saying it doesn't count just because it's got a different style is like saying Family Guy doesn't count because it's not kid-friendly or Daria doesn't count because it's a different style than Spongebob.


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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    I think people get butthurt about it because when you mention a cartoon people generally think they are all childish, so anime fans try to move it away from cartoons to move it away from being seen as childish. They are both wrong though, anime are cartoons but all cartoons aren't childish.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoko Littner View Post
    My reply to the bolded. Family Guy and etc are not anime, but are cartoons. Anime is a term used for a genre of cartoons, but are still cartoons either way. Cartoons is a term used to describe animation, but anime is actually a genre that stems from cartoons/animation so don't confuse the definitions!
    It depends on which side of the ocean you're on. We don't consider our Western cartoons anime, but the Japanese do. :P

    A little weird, yes, but eh, anime has become popular enough to where the term CAN be used separate, and mean two separate things. Anime News Network is one such example. They recognize that Japanese refer to any kind of animation and cartoon as "anime," but of course, since they are a news site dealing with JAPANESE animation, that distinction needs to be made for that context.

    It's kinda like indie music. The term "indie" can be used to describe bands that have a certain "vibe" to them that people describe as being "indie," but also means any band independent of a huge label, regardless of genre: folk, dubstep, metal, etc. Same thing with the terms anime/cartoons, it depends on how you want the terms to be used, as a style, a blanket term, or geo-locator.

    This actually brings up an interesting question, Avatar? Influenced by anime, would it still fall under the "anime" term because it's not from Japan? And also, The Boondocks. Clearly an American show, but didn't a major Japanese company come in one season to do the animation? Does that move it closer to anime?
    Last edited by Velvet_Nightmare; 08-23-2013 at 09:23 AM.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Anime = Cartoons.

    Just like Konnichiwa = Hello and how Aeroplane (british) = Airplane. Just because they call it something else in a different region does not change it's over-all meaning. A plane is still a plane, a welcoming is still a welcoming and a cartoon is still an anime vice versa.


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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    I think the problem relies on the bad connotation that the word "cartoon" has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matas View Post
    I think people get butthurt about it because when you mention a cartoon people generally think they are all childish, so anime fans try to move it away from cartoons to move it away from being seen as childish. They are both wrong though, anime are cartoons but all cartoons aren't childish.
    I agree with this. It's because people that are foreign to anime besides Dragonball Z and other mainstream will put Anime like Rainbow, Clannad, Attack on Titan in the same category as Phineas and Ferb or Spongebob.

    And I think the main gripe about it is the it's acceptable to watch Family Guy, The Simpsons, South Park, American Dad and so on but when it comes to mature Anime with mature content, it's also look down on. But I think the former are more acceptable and it's mockery of modern American pop culture, which people relate to more.

    It makes people think you are immature but when a lot of these anime like Rainbow have mature content that isn't really appropriate for the age group. If they want to call you a nerd for watching anime then that's a whole separate argument.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 08-23-2013 at 12:32 PM.


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  12. #10
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    cartoon
    1.
    a. A drawing depicting a humorous situation, often accompanied by a caption.
    b. A drawing representing current public figures or issues symbolically and often satirically: a political cartoon.
    2. A preliminary sketch similar in size to the work, such as a fresco, that is to be copied from it.
    3. An animated cartoon.
    4. A comic strip.
    5. A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation
    animated cartoon
    A motion picture or television film consisting of a photographed series of drawings, objects, or computer graphics that simulates motion by recording very slight, continuous changes in the images, frame by frame.
    Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

    So anyway, my understanding is that anime technically falls under the definition of cartoons since the term "cartoon" itself encompasses any animated film of any length. I say "encompasses", because the same term also applies to non-animated satirical or humourous drawings (especially of a hand-drawn nature as in comic strips and newspapers). Also please note that the term "animated film" applies as much to any episode (as of television series) or OVA as it does to any feature-length film (as of movies); however, it does not apply to an animated sequence that consists of predominately live-action animation.

    As a medium in its own right, anime does not apply to comic strips; nor does it apply to static drawings. As the term suggests, anime must consist of animation. It must also be of Japanese origin; or if created outside Japan, appear such that it effectively conforms to the key principles of Japanese animation. To avoid ambiguity, it is more useful to refer to anime as "animated cartoons" rather than simply "cartoons", especially when compared to other media that would also fall under the latter term. If one should get anything from the above quoted definitions, it is that "cartoon" is a very much a generic term, not a separate and equivalent entity that should be compared with anime; thus, strictly speaking, all anime are cartoons but not all cartoons are anime. Likewise, it is narrow-minded to think of cartoons as simply American-animated films, or as an American style of animation, as this would rule out a lot of competing cartoons that are created in other countries--many of which are considered animated films but may use different animation principles and techniques. It is also improper to define anime as simply "Japanese animation" (or Japanese-style animation) if you live in Japan--as in Japanese society the Japanese will simply refer to any animated feature from any country (including their own) as "anime"--which means that animated series such as The Simpsons or Family Guy would be considered as much "anime" as Naruto or Bleach, because in Japan anime simply means "animation", and therefore neither implies style nor origin.

    If I'm being honest, I too was once a member of certain so-called "anime fans" who would be offended at the mere mention of any anime series being referred to as a cartoon. Whenever someone would call an anime by that term to my face, I would personally think that they were comparing anime to classic western cartoons: that is, the kind of animated films that would be of typically short length and mostly consisting of slapstick and often senseless humour (Bugs Bunny or Tom and Jerry for instance)--cartoons which I enjoyed to be sure, but at the same time didn't wish to be placed in the same "league" as anime; because by my own narrow definitions of both terms, I had already judged that anime was indeed an higher art form (or to be more snobbish: more high-brow) than "cartoons".

    These days however, I'm much more relaxed about the terminology people use to (personally) classify anime. I've come to accept that, just because someone might refer to anime as cartoons themselves, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're undermining the value of anime itself; after all, they might think very highly of cartoons and therefore might be using the term as a complement. Meanwhile, I'm still free to personally define anime as I wish since no-one is physically taking my personal definition from me; and another's personal definition of anime as "cartoons" is neither diminishing my own personal sense of value with anime nor intellectual interpretation of it.

    Having said that, I cannot even apply my former definitions of anime or cartoons anymore since I've come to accept cartoons as more than I formerly perceived them to be. After all, who is to say that cartoons should be applicable only to certain media, certain styles, or indeed certain countries? Nowadays, when the term "cartoon" is applied to anime, it no longer offends me; not because I necessarily think that anime is on the same level as cartoons (because as I said before, "cartoon" is a generic term and therefore it encompasses all anime), but because I've embraced the term "cartoon" as an umbrella word as opposed to a separate and comparable entity.

    Still, even by my formerly-applied definition of anime, even I would have to agree that anime series like Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-chan are pretty much "cartoons", as when you get down to it, its material mostly boils down to slapstick humour, albiet with ecchi thrown in for the intended demographic. Yet, I enjoyed this anime immensely, especially the unfortunate and unintentional situations that Sakura would find himself in--not to mention, the enevitable bloody results that would follow. When I think about it, some anime (including the above mentioned) is not that much different to the likes of Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, or SpongeBob Squarepants. And why not? Why should any expressive medium be confined to a narrow set of dogmatic rules just to satisfy some group of elitist fans? The point is: anime is diverse enough to answer all preferences and demographics, even it that (supposedly) goes against the majority view of anime zealots who (I think) very much like the idea of anime being "exclusive", because it makes them feel intellectually distinguished and thus superior to other people.

    So to conclude: To get upset over people who define anime as cartoons is to miss the point that anime is a diverse medium in itself; and to me that's just... well... really sad.
    Last edited by .:neuko:.; 09-05-2013 at 10:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    The word anime is the Japanese word for animation, so it has been used to refer specifically to animation made in Japan, and also often more broadly as well to animation made outside of Japan that uses the a style for drawing the characters that typically is associated with Japanese animation. Animation drawn in any style not typical of Japanese animation (especially if it is made outside of Japan) is usually referred to as a cartoon.

    Also keep in mind, that except in Japan, hand drawn animation is usually associated with kids shows. As such, the term "cartoon" is usually seen as derogatory when used to describe anime (which is a lot of the time not aimed specifically at kids, and often isn't even appropriate for kids) because it's like putting it down as "nothing more than a show for kids".

    And while technically any cartoon is an anime (a shortened version of the Japanese word, "animeshon" which is just the Japanese form of the English word "animation"), the word anime is not often used interchangeably with the word "cartoon" by westerners, particularly those who are fans of Japanese animation (even though Japanese people might use it interchangeably). It is for this reason that Japanese companies who market their shows to the west will use the term "anime" to describe their shows.
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    that`s right
    i agree with u

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Let's see how anime characters handle this

    Anime is a lot like sex. Done right it's a beautiful act of creation that brings a little more light into the world. If it's sick and wrong... it's even better.


    Author of "How to Be an Anime Character" available from Amazon.com

  18. #14
    Senior Member Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555 is infamous around these parts Animedude5555's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Above linked video is rated TV-MA (Mature). Are you sure you wanna post a link to this video on a website that the admins say is meant to be kid friendly?
    Click the banner to visit my website.

    My website is still under construction, so please visit it often to see it as it grows. You may have to press F5 to refresh the page if there's something new that's not showing (in some rare cases, you may have to use Ctrl+F5). If you wish to contact me about my site and are a member of Animeforum, PM me. If you are just a guest visiting Animeforum, please use animedude5555@gmail.com


  19. #15
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    The series is rated MA because of the last episode. not this one.
    Anime is a lot like sex. Done right it's a beautiful act of creation that brings a little more light into the world. If it's sick and wrong... it's even better.


    Author of "How to Be an Anime Character" available from Amazon.com

  20. #16
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    i generally associate the word "cartoon" with any animation intended to amuse small children. i wouldn't call anime a cartoon unless it was made for this purpose.
    hor·ren·dous
    adjective
    shockingly dreadful; horrible
    synonyms
    appalling, frightful, hideous

    --



    --

    hail horrendous, drinker of blood, douser of flames, loather of light, lover of darkness. he is holding an inquisition of the bandaged, feeble ones.

  21. #17
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    What about American made cartoons for adults? Like the movie "Wizards"? Or anime made for small Children like Pokemon?
    Anime is a lot like sex. Done right it's a beautiful act of creation that brings a little more light into the world. If it's sick and wrong... it's even better.


    Author of "How to Be an Anime Character" available from Amazon.com

  22. #18
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    because western animation (not cartoons as a whole, but the actual animation) is crap and lazy, compared to how anime is animated. I could go into it deeper if you want to, but this is my reason. Of course there are exceptions, but yeah.
    Last edited by Kumagawa; 09-15-2013 at 04:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumagawa View Post
    because western animation (not cartoons as a whole, but the actual animation) is crap and lazy, compared to how anime is animated. I could go into it deeper if you want to, but this is my reason. Of course there are exceptions, but yeah.
    there aint nothing lazy about the way the boondocks is animated.



    Kaleohano derailing threads everywhere he go
    Sit back some time and simply ask yourself, [Link]->"Do you even lift, bro?"<-[Link]

  24. #20
    Senior Member Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n has a reputation beyond repute Clayton_n's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    THESE days I'll admit American cartoons mostly suck. I blame the power puff girls. Animators found out they could have a poorly drawn hit and just stopped trying.

    Some are getting back up there though.

    Anime is a lot like sex. Done right it's a beautiful act of creation that brings a little more light into the world. If it's sick and wrong... it's even better.


    Author of "How to Be an Anime Character" available from Amazon.com

  25. #21
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleohano View Post
    there aint nothing lazy about the way the boondocks is animated.
    Second season was animated by 4C, an anime studio. And as I said, there are exceptions.

  26. #22
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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    What about live actions hows that should qualify as anime?

    Last edited by Clayton_n; 09-17-2013 at 01:55 PM.
    Anime is a lot like sex. Done right it's a beautiful act of creation that brings a little more light into the world. If it's sick and wrong... it's even better.


    Author of "How to Be an Anime Character" available from Amazon.com

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    While both anime and cartoon are animated media the difference is in the content and quantity and the way plots go.
    it is the same with movies from Hollywood and European cinema why do people separate them? they are still movies, which is true but, the quantity, the budgets and the glam are different. Even in theatre take for instance Broadway musicals and European musicals, they are still musicals but the way they are done is different, broadway will have around 15 something songs in 2 hours long play when a european one will have 40 songs leaving little to no space for acting parts. That doesn't make any one them less worthy but you can't mix them or compare them either, they are separated for a reason after all.

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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    I'm pretty new to the anime world and I always though that anime and cartoons were different (until I found out they were the same thing) and wouldn't exactly like it when someone called anime cartoons.
    I had always thought they were different because Japanese anime seems to always be more detailed with a more captivating story-line and content, while Western style 'Cartoons' seem to lack that same amount of detail and content, and mostly seem to be a 'One Episode Story' kind of idea.
    Although, some Animators are trying to get back up to scratch, which I give them props for.

    But, Anime is my favorite style of animation and It's what I'm going to stay with.

    Realistically, what would you pick? Japanese Cartoons or Western Cartoons?
    The choice is pretty obvious in my perspective.

    NOTE: This was 100% OPINION

    Just sayin', not flamin'.






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    Default Re: Anime = Cartoons

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Crash View Post
    Anime = Cartoons.

    Just like Konnichiwa = Hello and how Aeroplane (british) = Airplane. Just because they call it something else in a different region does not change it's over-all meaning. A plane is still a plane, a welcoming is still a welcoming and a cartoon is still an anime vice versa.
    Makes perfect sense to me. I always tell people I watch cartoons because it covers all the bases for me.

    +++
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