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Thread: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

  1. #26
    Senior Member HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach has a reputation beyond repute HairyCockroach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Chemical weapons that actually kill require too much lab equipment for children to manufacture. Chances are they'll be dead from the manufacturing process long before they can deliver it. Other than that, you're left with a bunch of noxious gasses and irritants that sure, would have caused injuries, but wouldn't be nearly as effective as a gun.
    The killer wasn't a child. He was in his twenties.
    Ammonia and bleach is a very simple chemical combination to kill someone.
    Last edited by HairyCockroach; 12-15-2012 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Corrections.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by HairyCockroach View Post
    The killer wasn't a child. He was in his twenties.
    Almost all of my points still apply. It's seriously difficult to kill lots of people without a gun if you don't have half a decade of training in whatever weapon you're going for, and chemicals/bombs/fire is awesome psychological warfare, but downright bad at actually killing.

    Quote Originally Posted by HairyCockroach View Post
    Ammonia and bleach is a very simple chemical combination to kill someone.
    To kill people with it, you need to mix it in front of them in a poorly ventilated area. Hardly what I would call a feasible weapon. But let's say you do that in a class room. Heck, you even block the door so nobody can escape. You know what the first thing the teacher's going to do the moment you start mixing chemicals? Throw a chair through the window. Instant ventilation. 90% of the victims survived because someone saw the commotion and called the police.
    Last edited by Eris; 12-15-2012 at 03:26 AM.
    D:

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris:2736241
    To kill people with it, you need to mix it in front of them in a poorly ventilated area. Hardly what I would call a feasible weapon. But let's say you do that in a class room. Heck, you even block the door so nobody can escape. You know what the first thing the teacher's going to do the moment you start mixing chemicals? Throw a chair through the window. Instant ventilation. 90% of the victims survived because someone saw the commotion and called the police.
    Most schools have reinforced windows. It's going to take more than one thrown chair to break it, and if the killer is dumb enough to turn his back to a potential threat, then why would you throw the chair at the window when you could instead beat the killer with it?
    But it really doesn't take that long to mix two things together. Hell, you could prepare it beforehand and just open the container there. Voila!

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by HairyCockroach View Post
    You don't need guns to kill people. If he didn't have a gun, he would've just used something else to slaughter those children. He would've built a bomb through the internet or used chemical means to kill those he wanted. Banning guns isn't going to stop someone from killing.
    That may be true, but the gun remains as one the most effective weapons designed to deal death in a quick and precise manner, and like @Eris said, anyone can use a gun. The point is, not allowing any citezen to possess a gun, legally or otherwise would minimise incidents such as this in the first place.

    It pains me to say this, but in this day and age, the only way to ensure real protection of children on school premises is through millitary intervention, and so that essentially, innappropriate weapons are not allowed anywhere near school premises to begin with. Ideally, it'd be nice to see schools managing themselves without the presence of millitary personell at all (i.e. so that they look more like schools and less like detention camps); but the alternative is to risk more incidents like this. Of course, the obviousness as to what should be done to avoid mass school killings on this scale doesn't make it any easier to implement; ultimately the question is whether American taxpayers are prepared to pay more to their governent for the necessary protection of their children.

    The alternative is for the surrounding society to look deep within itself and ask, "Why are these things happening?". Incidents like this are, however you look at it, a reflection on the surrounding society, and while it can't be held accountable for the killer's actions, it may well be partly responsible for the path he took in his life. Basically, I'm saying that one thing leads to another--actions are not born out of thin air.

    In any case, the notion that guns are necessary to protect people is certainly not reflected in the US's crime statistics. There are other countries in the world that permit around the same standards of living and with them it's illegal for citezens (i.e. civillians) to possess firearms; (Japan and Austrailia to name but a few); yet most (if not all) do not have anywhere near as alarming crime statistics. In the end the difference boils down to social development.

    As much as I wish the incident had not happened, I'm not at all surprised that it did--in fact I'd almost go so far as to say that it was enevitable. School killings (at least on this scale) seem to be a relatively recent phenomenon; to me this would suggest that something has gone fundamentally wrong with--and I'm going to say it because it has to said--western society as a whole.
    Last edited by .:neuko:.; 12-15-2012 at 02:30 PM.

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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    I can't believe such a person killed our future generation

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Hearing stuff like this just makes me feel sick to the core.
    How many more times is this going to happen before they decide that they need to impose some form of gun ownership restriction in the USA.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    In case you haven't heard, he DIDN'T get them legally. He stole them from his own mother (and then killed her)! His mother was an average law abiding citizen who LEGALLY owned guns. And she is NOT GUILTY OF ANY GUN CRIMES! As far as I know she doesn't have any rap-sheet for gun violence in her past at all.
    Way to miss my point. You really need to reread my post.

    Besides, the fact that he took guns from his mother who legally got them, does, in fact, mean that it would have been more difficult for him to attain them if they weren't legal.

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  9. #33
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    It's too bad this kind of sheltered american pastime has degraded from high school shootings to elementary school shootings. Why doesn't this ever happen at Rockefeller University, at a bank, in parliament, congress, or a police station? No one should ever miss the people dead there. I am displeased with this.
    Also, lol @ video interview:
    "-Hundreds of shots?
    -That's what she said.."


  10. #34
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

     
    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    But "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"

    Actually, I hate that argument, too. It's like completely trying to toss out of the window the fact that guns are designed specifically to be weapons. Which doesn't make one bit of sense to me.
    Spoons make people fat too. Spoons were designed to eat. Ban spoons; solve obesity crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    I don't think that guns should be completely banned... Well, honestly, I do. But in North America we have the Second Amendment, and unlike some others (you know, like a whole political party), I'm not going to omit or misinterpret parts of the Constitutions I don't like. It's just that we should have gun control.
    Actually(just because this bugs me) in the United States of America, we have the second amendment. North America also consists of Canada, and one of those big floaty island-like countries that are associated with Jules Vern. Oh, and we do have gun control. The school was an area with gun control.

    Though it would be nice if everyone knew the purpose of the second amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    They say that criminals will get guns anyway, but guess what... Some criminals will be stopped if they can't get guns legally.
    Some criminals will be stopped if they can't get guns legally.
    Someone who already is not following the law or intending to not follow it is going to follow the law even though it hinders their intent to not follow the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    I can't make any claims about what happened here, but it is possible that a situation like this could occur where the guy wouldn't have gotten ahold of guns if he couldn't legally get them. Just one of these cases being avoided by that makes gun control a successful measure. I, for one, value the lives of these children.
    He didn't get them legally, but since we're talking about the possibilities: He could have invented a miniaturized power-source, and then used this to create a mechanical suit, and then, instead of shoot, ripped little children limb from limb. A more possible route would be a knife though. He'd get to savor all the little emotions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Guns are weapons. They are made to harm. There is no getting around this fact.
    No one is trying to, genius. No one says are not meant to harm. That is their purpose: to harm. However, with the capacity to harm comes the capacity to protect. Handing someone a gun does not just give him/her the means to run into a school and blow everyone away. A capacity to harm is also a capacity to defend. You can't get around that fact.



    Sad times. However, the screw up with the other Lanza dude was a little chuckle inducing.

  11. #35
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    In case you haven't heard, he DIDN'T get them legally. He stole them from his own mother (and then killed her)! His mother was an average law abiding citizen who LEGALLY owned guns. And she is NOT GUILTY OF ANY GUN CRIMES! As far as I know she doesn't have any rap-sheet for gun violence in her past at all.
    Why does a mother need to own guns? Wait... let me guess... self-defence right? Lot of good it did her. I don't understand needing guns to protect yourself, if everyone in the country DIDN'T OWN A GUN, there wouldn't be much need for protection. We have home invasions and break-ins here, but knowing the criminals and crazies very likely do not have a gun makes me feel quite safe.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by The Angelic Anathema View Post
    Spoons make people fat too. Spoons were designed to eat. Ban spoons; solve obesity crisis.
    Last time I checked, you don't need a spoon to eat a Big Mac or some KFC. Pretty bad example but I agree and know where you're going at. Guns don't "kill" people, it's the user who does it. And obviously, people have it for self-defense.

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasanime View Post
    Why does a mother need to own guns? Wait... let me guess... self-defence right? Lot of good it did her. I don't understand needing guns to protect yourself, if everyone in the country DIDN'T OWN A GUN, there wouldn't be much need for protection. We have home invasions and break-ins here, but knowing the criminals and crazies very likely do not have a gun makes me feel quite safe.
    If there was a law that made it illegal to have guns, the badguys would STILL HAVE THEM, because guess what, BADGUYS DO ILLEGAL THINGS!!!!!!! An ABSOLUTE COMPLETE BAN ON ALL GUNS would only make people MORE IN DANGER THAN EVER BEFORE, because criminals (who would WITHOUT A DOUBT STILL HAVE GUNS) would now be able to shoot any victim they want, and there would be NO LEGAL WAY for a person to defend themself. The person wouldn't "maybe" get shot, the person WOULD GET SHOT, by the cirminal. And all their possesions would be stolen. Crime would skyrocket 1000x compared to what it is today. The blackmarket for guns would be booming. You'd have gangs of VERY DANGEROUS gun traffickers (just like Mexican drug gangs are today, but with guns being the commodity instead of drugs). Soon the criminals would be so empowered, that EVERYBODY would expect to be murdered before dying of old-age. Life expectancy would drop to about 45-years instead of the 80-years that it is now.

    You want to know why crime is not EVERYWHERE, and only tends to be strong in "bad neighborhoods"? It's because people who are innocent, and legally have guns, can shoot criminals. Right now criminals are SCARED of their victims, which is why most people in their life NEVER EXPERIENCE A CRIME FIRST-HAND. Only about 1% of people in our society are ever a robbery victim. In a country with an absolute gun-ban, 99% of the people in the country would be robbed AT LEAST ONCE in their life, and at least half of those would be ARMED ROBBERY!

    We often don't feel safe with guns being legal especially after a crime like this, but that "lack of safety with guns being legal" is merely AN ILLUSION! If you ban guns, you will TRULY NEVER BE SAFE AGAIN!!!!!

    AND DON'T TELL ME TO JUST CALL 911. If someone breaks in to my house and I call 911 and the nearest cop-car is 1 mile away, it will still take ONE WHOLE MINUTE even if the cop car is going 60mph! And that's if I'm LUCKY enough that there's one a mile from me. However even one minute is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME for a person to SHOOT ME, STEAL MY WALLET, AND ESCAPE. If I had a gun in my hand, and I met the burglar at the door as he kicked it in, with my gun in hand pointed at him before he even had time to draw his gun. He'd THINK TWICE ABOUT PULLING HIS GUN ON ME, and he would probably LEAVE THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY!

    WE NEED GUNS TO BE SAFE! AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A CRIMINAL WHO WANTS TO EMPOWER CRIMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Right, Because everyone in the U.S. is carrying a gun on them. Oh and for a country with a gun ban, Japan seems to be doing alright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan#Statistics

    Oh and there's this.
    http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#...rol-debate.cnn
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 12-15-2012 at 07:13 PM.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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  16. #39
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    “You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.

    It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
    people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

    You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”
    Because reasons

  17. #40
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    In a country with an absolute gun-ban, 99% of the people in the country would be robbed AT LEAST ONCE in their life, and at least half of those would be ARMED ROBBERY!
    Statistically countries with tougher gun laws have way less gun related deaths and injuries. If some-one robs you, they usually want money/goods, not to murder you. My solution to that situation would be to let them take whatever they want, then claim on insurance, not to shoot them!! It is entirely possible to control gun possession quite well. Yes, the REALLY bad criminals will still get hold of them, but the petty criminals who are after quick cash will not go to the trouble it takes to get hold of a gun.

    I don't necessarily think a COMPLETE BAN is needed, but it should be quite difficult for ppl to own a firearm as there is no place for them in day to day life.

  18. #41
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Less than 48 hours after the Connecticut school shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT, which took place on Dec. 14, the Westboro Baptist Church is already making plans to picket.
    Read the rest.

    Wow, did not see this coming. Like, holy crap, how unpredictable.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 12-15-2012 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Sarcasm

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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by The Angelic Anathema View Post
    Read the rest.

    Wow, did not see this coming. Like, holy crap, how unpredictable.
    -.-; Sadly I was worried this would happen. Why can someone that decides to go nuts and shoot people go and shoot them?
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


  20. #43
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasanime View Post
    How many kids have to be shot before the US government decides that maybe ppl shouldn't be allowed to have guns??!! This kind of crime is virtually un-heard of here in Australia.
    Port Arthur Massacre

    Monash University Shooting

    Police can't promise end to Sydney shooting spree

    It literally took longer to copy-paste the URLs into a post than it did to find those on Google. Two of them are AFTER the shift to draconian gun laws. Aside from these, please look up and post crime rates (violent and not) before and after said legal changes. Critical thinking is important.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    I don't think that guns should be completely banned... Well, honestly, I do. But in North America we have the Second Amendment, and unlike some others (you know, like a whole political party), I'm not going to omit or misinterpret parts of the Constitutions I don't like. It's just that we should have gun control.
    This individual illegally acquired weapons to commit the crime. If you're not aware, this is done in every single country by criminals. Need I bother listing the shootings that occur across the world in countries with low and high rates of legal gun ownership, with varying degrees of gun control? Gun control has not prevented a shooting spree anywhere ever. Proactive law enforcement and awareness from citizens, on the other hand, has and does. You're letting your bias cloud your judgement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    ... and that's why virtually all spree murders are by gun, and by extension, how restricting gun access will reduce their frequency.
    Please support this by demonstrating the frequency of shootings across different countries with different rates of gun ownership and varying levels of national gun control. You'll find theorycrafting doesn't pan out in reality.

    In fact, I think more people have been killed by mass bombings (in the US alone and abroad) than by mass shootings. I'll have to double check that though.

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  22. #44
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasanime View Post
    Statistically countries with tougher gun laws have way less gun related deaths and injuries. If some-one robs you, they usually want money/goods, not to murder you. My solution to that situation would be to let them take whatever they want, then claim on insurance, not to shoot them!! It is entirely possible to control gun possession quite well. Yes, the REALLY bad criminals will still get hold of them, but the petty criminals who are after quick cash will not go to the trouble it takes to get hold of a gun.

    I don't necessarily think a COMPLETE BAN is needed, but it should be quite difficult for ppl to own a firearm as there is no place for them in day to day life.
    What about people who hunt for "sport"? Shouldn't they continue to be allowed to own guns?

    What about people who go to a shooting range and shoot at targets just for fun? Shouldn't they be allowed to continue to own guns?

    I don't know of any country that has a complete gun ban (as in there is no such thing as a "gun license" because there is no such thing as legally owning a gun in the country). And if there were, the petty criminals in that country would likely upgrade their crimes to violent robberies.

    You want to know why even in places with tough gun laws there is less crime? It's because of the fact that it isn't a COMPLETE BAN. The fact remains that the criminal knows that the next person he attacks MIGHT have a gun, even if there's only a 1% chance of it. And that's enough to keep most criminals away from violent crime. But I believe that if 99% of the law-abiding citizens owned a gun, criminals would be so terrified, that they would make sure their crimes didn't get them shot, so the crime rate for violent crime would be almost non-existent, and the crime rate for lesser crimes (walking off with a wallet that someone accidentally dropped, etc) would also go down significantly because nobody would know when the wallet owner (who most likely was "packing heat") would turn around and see the guy trying to take the wallet, and fire a few shots his way. So (if 99% of law-abiding citizens owned guns) violent crime would be down to less than 1% of all crime, and the chance of any crime (even nonviolent) happening to someone at some point in their life (which is like 10% in our current situation) would drop to less than 1%.

    Stupid leftists advocate for ABSOLUTE BAN ON ALL GUNS.

    I advocate for A COMPLETELY ARMED SOCIETY. Right now, while criminals are fewer than goodguys, of the guns that are currently owned by a non-cop civilian more than 50% are owned by criminals, because goodguys are AFRAID under current law that (even though guns are legal to own with the proper license) that the law might change any moment making them criminals. To convince more goodguys to go out and buy guns, we need to GUARENTY people that there will NEVER be a complete gun ban in the US. If 99% of owned guns were owned by goodguys, then the criminals would have no more desire to commit crime, and would choose to live by the law, because they'd be TOO SCARED TO COMMIT A CRIME!!!!!

  23. #45
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    What about people who hunt for "sport"? Shouldn't they continue to be allowed to own guns?
    Killing for sport is absolutely disgraceful. Just Sayin'

    ---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

    I didn't say it didn't happen, just that's compared to the US it's less common, as per this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

    I'm not here to argue on facts and figures, I honestly can't be bothered. It is simply my personal opinion that no good ever can or will come from people owning deadly weapons (except maybe the police)

  24. #46
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Right, Because everyone in the U.S. is carrying a gun on them. Oh and for a country with a gun ban, Japan seems to be doing alright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan#Statistics
    And Japan has one of the highest sex-crime rates in the world. Rapists aren't worried that that the woman they attack will blow their brains out. Why do you think hentai anime exists in Japan depicting violent rape and sex torture, some of which even shows child anime characters being sexually violated? It's because in Japan the number of sex offenders is SO HIGH that they make up a significant fraction of the population (like 1% to 5%) instead of the less than 1% that it is in the US or other gun carrying nations. So there is in fact so many sex offenders/predators that they actually make up a significant number of TV and movie watchers, so there is actually a STRONG MONEY MAKING BUSINESS in producing shows that cater to this portion of the population. But that's not the case in the US where there are SO FEW SEX OFFENDERS (compared to Japan, at least by percentage of the total population), which is MOSTLY because of the fact that it is LEGAL for civilians (that is non-cop non-military people) to carry guns, and that scares off MOST SEX OFFENDERS!


    You want to know why that shooting (or any mass shooting, whether at a mall, theater, school, or college) can happen in the US? It's because THOSE PLACES are "gun free zones" (you can't carry in those places, even with a gun permit). I guarenty you if even ONE GOOD PERSON in those places had a gun, THE BAD GUY WITH THE GUN WOULD BE DEAD AFTER HIS FIRST OR SECOND SHOT, CAUSE THE GOODGUY WITH THE GUN WOULD HAVE PUT HIM DOWN FAST!!!!!! If a teacher at that school had a gun and trained to use it properly, EVEN JUST ONE TEACHER, that guy would have had time to get get off a couple shots off before the armed teacher would have run to the scene, found the shooter and killed him on the spot. And if the first act of the gun toting madman was to confront the teacher with his, she probably would have been able to see it before it was leveled at her, as he was pulling it out to shoot, she would quick-draw HER OWN GUN (just like cops you see in the movies, if she was properly trained in gun handling like cops are) and fill him with lead before he even had his gun aimed and shot, meaning no shots from his gun before he was DEAD. In schools, teachers need to be able to do double-duty, be a teacher AND be the armed security force at the school to protect the students.

    TEACHERS NEED GUNS!!!!! AND SO DOES THE PRINCIPLE!!!!

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  26. #47
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    instead of the less than 1% that it is in the US or other gun carrying nations. !
    I imagine the percentage could be much higher if it included the sex offenders being protected by the Catholic church....?

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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by abcdefgh12345678 View Post
    And Japan has one of the highest sex-crime rates in the world. Rapists aren't worried that that the woman they attack will blow their brains out. Why do you think hentai anime exists in Japan depicting violent rape and sex torture, some of which even shows child anime characters being sexually violated? It's because in Japan the number of sex offenders is SO HIGH that they make up a significant fraction of the population (like 1% to 5%) instead of the less than 1% that it is in the US or other gun carrying nations. So there is in fact so many sex offenders/predators that they actually make up a significant number of TV and movie watchers, so there is actually a STRONG MONEY MAKING BUSINESS in producing shows that cater to this portion of the population. But that's not the case in the US where there are SO FEW SEX OFFENDERS (compared to Japan, at least by percentage of the total population), which is MOSTLY because of the fact that it is LEGAL for civilians (that is non-cop non-military people) to carry guns, and that scares off MOST SEX OFFENDERS!


    You want to know why that shooting (or any mass shooting, whether at a mall, theater, school, or college) can happen in the US? It's because THOSE PLACES are "gun free zones" (you can't carry in those places, even with a gun permit). I guarenty you if even ONE GOOD PERSON in those places had a gun, THE BAD GUY WITH THE GUN WOULD BE DEAD AFTER HIS FIRST OR SECOND SHOT, CAUSE THE GOODGUY WITH THE GUN WOULD HAVE PUT HIM DOWN FAST!!!!!! If a teacher at that school had a gun and trained to use it properly, EVEN JUST ONE TEACHER, that guy would have had time to get get off a couple shots off before the armed teacher would have run to the scene, found the shooter and killed him on the spot. And if the first act of the gun toting madman was to confront the teacher with his, she probably would have been able to see it before it was leveled at her, as he was pulling it out to shoot, she would quick-draw HER OWN GUN (just like cops you see in the movies, if she was properly trained in gun handling like cops are) and fill him with lead before he even had his gun aimed and shot, meaning no shots from his gun before he was DEAD. In schools, teachers need to be able to do double-duty, be a teacher AND be the armed security force at the school to protect the students.

    TEACHERS NEED GUNS!!!!! AND SO DOES THE PRINCIPLE!!!!
    Right, more guns is the answer. With 300,000,000 guns in the U.S. alone, more is totally the answer. Aside from the fact that in many places (Not sure about CT) the Principle is allowed to have a firearm on him. It's been that way ever since Columbine. Way to be late with the times, dude.

    As far as the sex-crime rate in Japan, where's your data? If you're gonna make a compelling statistical comment have the facts to back it.
    As for my facts http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...34893820070828
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


  28. #49
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasanime View Post
    I'm not here to argue on facts and figures, I honestly can't be bothered.
    Then you've no business whatsoever deciding what rights of mine to restrict or trample upon. If you want to take away the ability to use force, including deadly force, to protect myself and my family, the onus is on you to provide a compelling argument to do so. Which leads me too...

    It is simply my personal opinion that no good ever can or will come from people owning deadly weapons (except maybe the police)
    Why are police excepted? Are they the only ones who are victimized by violent criminals? Should my safety, and the safety of my family and friends, be reliant on police presence and response?

    Warren v. District of Columbia

    You need to read that. I can't quote the content because it's not suitable for the general forum. The findings are irrelevant; while the courts hold that police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals (yes, that's exactly what that case states), I can say first hand that police will do their damnedest to protect when they can. It's what happened that led to the case that I want you to read.

    I well and truly envy you that you've not been put in a situation where you had to use force of any kind to protect yourself or others. Some of us, at least two on this forum no less, have been put in exactly that position before.

    Despite what the media makes of it, and in spite of how awful these killings are, they are still rare. The United States is huge, both in size and population. Compare its land mass and population to other parts of the world and overlay its crime rates. The US gets a bad rap because it actually reports its crimes, where many (most?) other nations cover them up as much as possible, something that's becoming harder to do because the widespread ownership and use of smartphones and social media is making it nearly impossible to keep secrets (if you don't believe me, look up the reported crime rates of most countries that are only recently showing mass tragedies; European and Asian countries in particular are prone to this).

    Before you, both you specifically Jasanime and to anyone else who holds the same opinion, start stating a need for drastic change, start looking at the whole picture. Facts and numbers shouldn't be an inconvenience to making policy that effects the lives of others.

  29. #50
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    Default Re: Mass Murder @ Elementary School

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    Then you've no business whatsoever deciding what rights of mine to restrict or trample upon. If you want to take away the ability to use force, including deadly force, to protect myself and my family, the onus is on you to provide a compelling argument to do so. Which leads me too...


    .....Before you, both you specifically Jasanime and to anyone else who holds the same opinion, start stating a need for drastic change, start looking at the whole picture. Facts and numbers shouldn't be an inconvenience to making policy that effects the lives of others.
    I never said anything about making drastic changes or 'trampling' rights. I was merely exercising MY right to expressing an opinion. Yes I have an opinion on gun laws in the US, but I've never lived there, so if it's really so unsafe that you need weapons then I feel sorry for you. At the end of the day, I really don't care cos it's not my country and does not affect me.

    I guess I'm just old fashioned and believe that violence is never the answer. Peace :-)

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