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Thread: R.I.P Amanda Todd

  1. #151
    Senior Member TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Highly doubt it. Especially if you look at the members posts as a whole
    If you say so. I'm not terribly familiar with the poster in question, though I think we've made passing contact in the forums recently. I was just going from what I'd skimmed in this thread, and of course my own biases.

    I also tend to be pretty poor at tracking who said what, unless I'm taking issue with a specific post or someone is doing the same to me.




    I still must honestly say that Assud doesn't strike me as a true troll, but rather simply as cynical as I am but lacking my fine and yet loose-cannon command of written rhetoric. That assessment may or may not change, as with all things.

    Anyway, aren't you glad I'm finally here? 'The enemy you know' and all that jazz?
    Last edited by TheAsterisk!; 11-01-2012 at 07:03 PM. Reason: I'm surprised you didn't take issue with anything else I said, MaruDashi. I am truly surprised.
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  2. #152
    Senior Member Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Everyone making the original "but a lot of people commit suicide every day, why is SHE so important?!" argument don't seem to know how the media works. Thats what the media usually does -- takes one attention-getting story and runs with it. That's pretty much their job.

    I thought that much was obvious. Although I did bring up the race/attractiveness issue in my previous posts.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Chigumi View Post
    We MUST inform those girls that is NOT ok to let your boyfriend pursuit you to flash your private parts or lingerie for his camera. Specially not WITH your face on the image.
    I'll agree and I think most people would.

    The thing I'm not sure about is what to do if such a thing happened. Or even more complicated if I know that some future friends of my daughter are doing that.

    My instint is to want to get them expelled to remove a bad influence, or to tell my daughter to keep away form them. Both likely inneffective knowing schools and teens.

    Of course if some anonymous account cyberbullied them such that they're an example...

    Either way it's all messed up and I wonder how much of that sort of thing contintributed ot Todds sitaution. Certainly adding drugs and alcohol would make parents and peers more vicious.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    [i][b]
    Cynically, I anticipate that when the suicide rate continues to rise in accordance with this speculation of mine,
    You didn't quite connect your thoughts there. Why do you think excessive anti bullying stuff will cause the suicide rate to go up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickasaur View Post
    This is only a joke, I don't see the point with this thread going...
    Fair enough.

    As for the thread I think I keep going with this because I've got two young daughters and it's probably only a matter of time until life dumps these issues at my doorstep like a flaming bag of dog poo.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    Alternately, I might have elected to make a James Bond joke, something referencing You Only Live Twice. Maybe an image of the girl in question- bleach in hand, viewed through a rifled barrel- that Bond shot we all know so well- with an appropriately formatted and typefaced title like "You Only Bleach Twice". Or maybe Blofeld could be depicted in a fictional exchange as one of the bullies. Or perhaps I could just insert an image of her likeness into the cockpit of the little autogyro from the film.
    That's the other complexity with bullying. Everyone agrees it's horrible...except when it's awesome.



    EIDT: For clarification, since she's already dead I don't think anybody in this thread could be accused of bullying, just black humor and I'd probably chuckle at a well crafted image macro as well. However I think the distinction between the two is often lost on the internet (and real life) between the harmless stuff here and attacks aimed at a person.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 11-02-2012 at 05:54 AM.

  4. #154
    Senior Member TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk! has a reputation beyond repute TheAsterisk!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside
    You didn't quite connect your thoughts there. Why do you think excessive anti bullying stuff will cause the suicide rate to go up?
    I connected them, but it made assumptions that the posters here knew and appreciated how simplistically children (including many adolescents) learn what is and isn't normative behavior (i.e., what is and isn't normal).

    If they are constantly reminded, by way of media reports and well-meaning activists, that bullying often leads to suicide, they will begin to think that suicide is a normal response to bullying, nevermind whether they are told that it is wrong. They see that many others their age and in their situation have killed themselves, and the idea of suicide as a way out eventually no longer seems to be abnormal, but just another option that their parents and teachers don't like.

    They're more likely to kill themselves if they think that suicide is common or normal, nevermind ethics or morality or more calm long-term thinking. It won't make them do it, you understand, but it will lower the barrier to entry, so to speak.

    You can't treat children like responsible adults (or treat irresponsible adults like responsible adults, for that matter). Simply educating them and offering help is noble, but ultimately has effects beyond what would rationally follow. They don't behave rationally. Their tendency to follow trends simply to fit in also leads them to behaviors that make little sense.

    This same tendency towards an "Everybody is doing it!" attitude is why things like the DARE program are absolutely idiotic in implementation. It's why people are shunned if they don't go to the right social function. (Recall how little effect the rationally-sound but trite "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you too?" has on kids. A fair number of them might at least drive out to the bridge, if not actually plummet off the side with the hypothetical crowd of friends and peers.) It's been written off as an artifact of peer pressure- and a part of it is- but a fair amount of it is also merely unthinking emulation of others.

    Now to be clear, I have nothing against opposition to bullying, but I do want to remind everyone that it has to be done very carefully, so as not to have unanticipated and potentially terrible net effects.

    That's the other complexity with bullying. Everyone agrees it's horrible...except when it's awesome.

    EDIT: For clarification, since she's already dead I don't think anybody in this thread could be accused of bullying, just black humor and I'd probably chuckle at a well crafted image macro as well. However I think the distinction between the two is often lost on the internet (and real life) between the harmless stuff here and attacks aimed at a person.
    Oh, I'm not bullying her, though I may offend people in the process of my joke. I just believe that the horrible things in life are also those that most desperately require guilty laughter. A little levity with your tragedy, so to speak. That, and I was ticked that people were getting offended at jokes, and conflating them with actually trashing this girl out of pure malice.
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  5. #155
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Ill skip the whole discussion about about weither what she did was right or not.

    But your question about bullying.
    I personally never have been bullied.
    But i do try to stop people from bullying others.. Well only the people in my class though. Or people that i have sometimes classes with .

    Anyway, if I should believe all the stories about bullying then hope i won't be a target of bullies. Everrrr. Not that it matters much to me at this age though haha.

  6. #156
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Forbuki View Post
    Not that it matters much to me at this age though haha.
    Don't worry
     
    Adults kill themselves because of bulling, too!

  7. #157
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanromml View Post
    Don't worry
     
    Adults kill themselves because of bulling, too!

    Hmh, alright then. Although i have to say i didn't hear of any cases like that in Holland :o

  8. #158
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsterisk! View Post
    I connected them, but it made assumptions that the posters here knew and appreciated how simplistically children (including many adolescents) learn what is and isn't normative behavior (i.e., what is and isn't normal).

    If they are constantly reminded, by way of media reports and well-meaning activists, that bullying often leads to suicide, they will begin to think that suicide is a normal response to bullying, nevermind whether they are told that it is wrong. They see that many others their age and in their situation have killed themselves, and the idea of suicide as a way out eventually no longer seems to be abnormal, but just another option that their parents and teachers don't like.

    They're more likely to kill themselves if they think that suicide is common or normal, nevermind ethics or morality or more calm long-term thinking. It won't make them do it, you understand, but it will lower the barrier to entry, so to speak.

    You can't treat children like responsible adults (or treat irresponsible adults like responsible adults, for that matter). Simply educating them and offering help is noble, but ultimately has effects beyond what would rationally follow. They don't behave rationally. Their tendency to follow trends simply to fit in also leads them to behaviors that make little sense.

    This same tendency towards an "Everybody is doing it!" attitude is why things like the DARE program are absolutely idiotic in implementation. It's why people are shunned if they don't go to the right social function. (Recall how little effect the rationally-sound but trite "If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you too?" has on kids. A fair number of them might at least drive out to the bridge, if not actually plummet off the side with the hypothetical crowd of friends and peers.) It's been written off as an artifact of peer pressure- and a part of it is- but a fair amount of it is also merely unthinking emulation of others.

    Now to be clear, I have nothing against opposition to bullying, but I do want to remind everyone that it has to be done very carefully, so as not to have unanticipated and potentially terrible net effects.
    Hmmm I could see people thinking that an appropriate response to bullying is to say that they're considering suicide. (And I could see that being doubly popular for getting other people in trouble.)

    I don't know about having that affect for actually doing it.

    Seeing precidents where everybody is so sad and makes freaking effigies to people who commit suicide (as with Todd); however, will probably convince some people to end things that way.


    Oh, I'm not bullying her, though I may offend people in the process of my joke. I just believe that the horrible things in life are also those that most desperately require guilty laughter. A little levity with your tragedy, so to speak. That, and I was ticked that people were getting offended at jokes, and conflating them with actually trashing this girl out of pure malice.
    As I said her being dead means you can't now bully her. And there is a place for dark humor (though there are lines to be crossed).

    I was more generally commenting that, especially on the internet, but also in real life, there is a feeling that being horribly cruel is fine as long as it is funny or amusing and I think this is an increasing trend.

  9. #159
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Oh, I'm not bullying her, though I may offend people in the process of my joke. I just believe that the horrible things in life are also those that most desperately require guilty laughter. A little levity with your tragedy, so to speak. That, and I was ticked that people were getting offended at jokes, and conflating them with actually trashing this girl out of pure malice.
    This, except that the girl was still a total attention {word meaning one who engages in sexual acts for financial compensation has been redacted} and I don't understand why we're still contributing to her issue.

  10. #160
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Assud View Post
    This, except that the girl was still a total attention {word meaning one who engages in sexual acts for financial compensation has been redacted} and I don't understand why we're still contributing to her issue.
    You mean her issue of being dead?
    That's kind of an issue.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    You mean her issue of being dead?
    That's kind of an issue.

    And I'm still like, 'So what?'

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    : The Game. You just lost it. :



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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    At my college, we had this discussion about bullying. I didn't bother commenting because if you saw the amount of comments on that board, there was no room to write the opinion that I wanted to state. There has been multiple suicides about kids that have been bullied to that point. And even I, when I was young, had been bullied as a child up until I was well into my teens. I never thought to end my life as I saw that life had a lot more waiting for me in the future.

    The conclusion that I came to when this event occurred is that I believe that parents are to blame for this behavior. If you observe the behavior of children, they will in fact imitate things they see on tv, imitate what other people do as well as imitate what ever their parents do. I believe that kids will see their parents behave in a manner that is not appropriate and they will imitate that behavior at school in the form of bullying. The kids don't see that their doing anything wrong because they are just children and to never be told that they are doing something wrong, they will continue that behavior. Or even if they have been told, they feel powerful by bullying other kids.

    Regardless if she sent those pictures for attention or did whatever she did for attention or whatever she had done, it's the fact that it was something tragic that occurred.
    (Read various articles and many other things and every story is different.)



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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranshiin View Post
    I would munch on some popcorn too, but that crap gets stuck in my jaws.

    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Assud View Post
    And I'm still like, 'So what?'
    Yea, it's okay to not care since you didn't know her, still the

    LOOK HOW COOL AND HIPSTER I AM FOR NOT CARING, I AM UNIQUE SEE

    attitude is pretty old and annoying. Not so much because it's "mean" or "insensitive", but because everyone and their mother thinks they're super cool for having it.

  17. #166
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I would munch on some popcorn too, but that crap gets stuck in my jaws.
    SUCK IT





     


    no no
    seriously
    suck it

    that way it won't get in your teeth and it will take you even longer to eat it



    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    Yea, it's okay to not care since you didn't know her, still the

    LOOK HOW COOL AND HIPSTER I AM FOR NOT CARING, I AM UNIQUE SEE

    attitude is pretty old and annoying. Not so much because it's "mean" or "insensitive", but because everyone and their mother thinks they're super cool for having it.
    umm...sorry for butting in but why would he care? I mean, he didn't even know her..and she didn't seem like someone exceptional or what not...
    even trying to project yourself or your relatives into her in order to force a connection(like most people do) is hard since..she was so emo lol..
    Last edited by nrL; 11-06-2012 at 08:49 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    umm...sorry for butting in but why would he care?
    You may need to re-read my post again to fully understand it. I said he didn't need to care because clearly there's no way for him to care about someone he doesn't know.

    I said that the general attitude of "I don't care, but let me post I don't care because that makes me special" is what I have an issue with. People who don't care don't come into a topic posting about how they don't care.

    even trying to project yourself or your relatives into her in order to force a connection(like most people do) is hard since..she was so emo lol..
    ... Not sure what this means.
    Last edited by Miss Electric Moonlight; 11-06-2012 at 09:07 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    You may need to re-read my post again to fully understand it. I said he didn't need to care because clearly there's no way for him to care about someone he doesn't know.

    I said that the general attitude of "I don't care, but let me post I don't care because that makes me special" is what I have an issue with. People who don't care don't come into a topic posting about how they don't care.


    umm..still don't see your problem. they express their opinion, right?

    and they don't do it in an attention-grabbing "lookhowedgyiam" way(most of the time), they just say what they (probably) sincerely think
    Last edited by nrL; 11-06-2012 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Give it a few more years. Every one of you will have skeletons in your closet, that you will be praying to your benign deity no one ever discovers.
    She wasn't a perfect girl, she was human. Which seems to be what many of you have forgotten.
    Last edited by Nephthys; 12-31-2012 at 12:12 AM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Huh I didn't expect to see this thread back again.

    Althought given some recent events I suppose I view this in a slightly differently light. While I think things were overblown and she was glamorized, I do appreciate that she only offed herself instead of trying to take a bunch of little kids with her.

    Most mass killings are believed to be motivated by a desire to become famous and/or draw attention to your "cause", and this is delivered by the media in spades. So long as you kill enough innocents, you are certain to have your picture known by everyone and that some of your crappy poetry or manifesto will be shared with the nation.

    What the Amanda Todd coverage says to such people is "hey, instead of killing bunches of people to get famous, how about making a youtube video instead and then offing yourself?"

    If we cannot get the media to quit glorifying mass killers as the coolest people since the Joker or Moriarty than perhaps we can use our facebook likes to glorify people who commit suicide without harming or inconveniencing others.

    The trick will be extending the social media response beyond attractive young females to socially awkward unnatractive males. ...that may prove difficult.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 12-27-2012 at 11:05 AM.

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    Senior Member Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Huh I didn't expect to see this thread back again.

    Althought given some recent events I suppose I view this in a slightly differently light. While I think things were overblown and she was glamorized, I do appreciate that she only offed herself instead of trying to take a bunch of little kids with her.

    Most mass killings are believed to be motivated by a desire to become famous and/or draw attention to your "cause", and this is delivered by the media in spades. So long as you kill enough innocents, you are certain to have your picture known by everyone and that some of your crappy poetry or manifesto will be shared with the nation.

    What the Amanda Todd coverage says to such people is "hey, instead of killing bunches of people to get famous, how about making a youtube video instead and then offing yourself?"

    If we cannot get the media to quit glorifying mass killers as the coolest people since the Joker or Moriarty than perhaps we can use our facebook likes to glorify people who commit suicide without harming or inconveniencing others.

    The trick will be extending the social media response beyond attractive young females to socially awkward unnatractive males. ...that may prove difficult.
    The media glamorized her. She didn't glamorize herself. The media, as i'm sure you know, glamorizes everything.

    I do appreciate that she only offed herself instead of trying to take a bunch of little kids with her.
    Right, suicide is different from a mass shooting.

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    Default Re: R.I.P Amanda Todd

    A 13-15 year old girl makes a decision without fully comprehending the implications of that decision. It happens to be a mistake. A particular person(s) stalked her online and harassed her continuously for three years, during which she was or felt socially ostracised the entire time. That particular person was coincidentally already in court "on charges of sexual assault and sexual interference of a person under 16". The man claims he did not drive her to suicide or stalk her and the police corroborate his story and called the allegations against his involvement "unfounded." The person said to be responsible, using the online handle "Viper", has not been found.

    She moved several times to several schools, took to drinking and druge use, was taken advantage of sexually by another student, then beaten in front of a crowd where evidently no one stops the attackers. She tried to commit suicide a few times before via bleach and overdosing.

    I don't blame this girl. There is nothing to blame her for; she was a victim. Most adults don't know the consequences of their online interactions, to say nothing of young adolescents. This girl was stalked and harassed continuously for years and the stalker's actions caused a level of social ostracizing that I doubt few, if any, on this forum can understand or appreciate. Has anyone here had to move schools because of cyber stalking and real-life bullying? Have they been taken advantage of sexually for it? Beaten in front of a crowd of their peers? Hounded after the fact that she should try a different brand of bleach?

    To think that anyone here or elsewhere could say she brought this on herself is unbelievable.

    Sad fact is that this person stalking her would have very likely elevated the blackmail to exploiting her for sex in real life; it's the nature of the beast with sexual predators.

    Watching the video to its end, I sincerely wish I'd have seen it when it was first posted so I could make a conscious effort to get in touch with this girl. I can't genuinely imagine watching this and not wanting to do something to help.

    For the person who stalked her, the classmate who took advantage of her, and the others who beat her, I hope that justice is done. Amanda Todd's family and memory deserve nothing less.
    Last edited by Forgotten Show; 12-27-2012 at 07:48 PM.

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