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Thread: China: Anti-Japan Protests

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    Default China: Anti-Japan Protests

    BEIJING Protesters in China have begun another day of demonstrations against Japan, after protests over disputed islands spread across numerous cities and at times turned violent.

    Hundreds of protesters across from the Japanese Consulate in Shanghai chanted and waved banners Sunday asserting that the islands in the East China Sea, which are controlled by Japan, are Chinese. About 50 military police officers carrying shields stood outside the consulate.

    Tensions have boiled over since Japan's government purchased the islands from their private owners last week.

    Users couldn't search for "anti-Japan protests" on China's Twitter-like site Sina Weibo on Sunday morning, and many of the previous day's photos had been taken down. The site is regularly censored.

    Some postings said there were protests planned Sunday in two southern cities and a central one.
    Link To Article

    Since this site revolves around a lot of Japanese culture, I thought this might be an interesting read for some of you.

    It looks like Japan is going to have their hands full with the Chinese for a while. Now the people who live on the islands are going to have to accept the fact that their homes are now in Japanese territory.

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    China, Japan, and Taiwan all claim that island as their own. Before, that island was under the de facto ownership of a private Japanese citizen, and that status quo was kept for a long time. However, Japan made the wrong move when the government decided to purchase that island from its owner. Because that island is now under the Japanese govenment's direct control, China became enraged since it saw Japan's move as a provocative and intentional disruption of the status quo.

    Of course, the Chinese are overreacting, too. But Japan started it :P

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    I thought this died out already. o_o; Now they're still going at it on each other?

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    When has China and Japan Ever gotten along about much of anything.

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    China, Japan, and Taiwan all claim that island as their own. Before, that island was under the de facto ownership of a private Japanese citizen, and that status quo was kept for a long time. However, Japan made the wrong move when the government decided to purchase that island from its owner. Because that island is now under the Japanese govenment's direct control, China became enraged since it saw Japan's move as a provocative and intentional disruption of the status quo.
    Oh, no, no, no, no. I have been following this little Senkaku island dispute thing for quite a while now (because the fireworks are simply entertaining) and the situation is a bit more complicated than that. Let's start from the beginning...and grab a snack (its going to be a long one):

    Centuries ago, China surveyed the islands and named them the "Diaoyu Islands". They noted that there was great fishing around the islands (there are record books that support this), but not much evidence that anybody actually lived there or even owned them.

    Fast forwarding to the Meiji Restoration, the Japanese made this exact assumption. Some people claimed that the islands belonged to China, but Japan officially took control of the islands during the Sino-Japanese War since they saw no evidence of the Chinese actually owning the islands. When China lost the war, the Treaty of Shimonoseki allowed Japan to take some other islands (including Taiwan). Around 1900, a man named Koga Tatsushirō set up a fish processing business on the island, but the business went bust 40 years later (this is important). After World War II, however, the Treaty of San Francisco stated that Japan's control was limited to the 4 main islands plus some of the smaller ones that they already owned and ones the Allied Powers decided to give to Japan (also important).

    Here's the kicker. In 1969, the United States did a survey of the Senkaku islands and found large oil, mineral, and gas reserves there. During this time, the US occupied Okinawa, the Ryukyu Islands, and some surrounding islands (presumably the Senkaku Islands). In 1972, the US gave those islands back to Japan; that same year, China and Taiwan claimed ownership of the islands.

    Now, remember that Tatsushirō guy? Well, he passed the Senkaku Islands on to his descendants, who then sold it to the Kurihara family (the private citizens that were mentioned), who then split the islands among themselves. The Japanese government was renting the islands from the family (for a variety of reasons, from surveying to bombing them), but then bought them. So now the Japanese government completely owns them.

    Here's the dispute. China and Taiwan (or the Republic of China, depending on where you stand on this), who usually argue over many things, can agree on one thing: Japan doesn't own those islands. To them, while the Japanese may have gained the islands after the Sino-Japanese War, they lost the islands when they signed the Treaty of San Francisco after WWII. They should have given the islands back. Plus, only the United States gave Japan the islands in the 1970's. Since the treaty was signed by the Allied Powers, all the relevant powers should have endorsed the transfer (the treaty stipulates that the Allied Powers, not just the US, determines which extra islands the Japanese can have); neither China nor Taiwan were a part of it.

    However, the Japanese say that they annexed the Senkaku Islands when nobody else owned them; they saw no evidence of Chinese ownership when they did the survey. Since China didn't own the islands during the Sino-Japanese War, Japan didn't "gain" them because of the Treaty of Shimonoseki, since they already owned them in the first place. Because of this, they never lost the territory to China after signing the Treaty of San Francisco and the US was right to give the islands back to Japan after the occupation. The purchase of the islands from the Kurihara family was merely a domestic affair and doesn't change the fact that the islands were still officially under control of the Japanese government. Plus, China and Taiwan only started to claim ownership of the islands after the US gave the islands back to Japan...and only after the discovery of oil and gas reserves. So Japan thinks that China and Taiwan are only claiming the islands for oil.

    So yeah, its quite complicated. And this doesn't even include the fact that China and Taiwan are still arguing amongst each other about the same islands and that this is actually a three way dispute (between China and Japan, Taiwan and Japan, and China and Taiwan).
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 09-16-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    @wolfgirl90 the point I was trying to make is that this dispute was dying down but the Japanese government made that move which rekindled the dispute. it was stupid of them because the Asian counties really don't need any more hostility among each other. as for who I think the Diaoyu Island belongs to, I'm with China on this one just because I am Chinese XD

    so I skimmed through your history lesson. are you sure that treaty was endorsed by ALL allied powers? China was part of the Allied Powers... :/

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Idunno, is this fake CNN news or something that keeps coming and going? I always hear "Japan vs. China" from one side and "China and Japan at a happyhour" from the other.


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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.LeDoom! View Post
    Idunno, is this fake CNN news or something that keeps coming and going? I always hear "Japan vs. China" from one side and "China and Japan at a happyhour" from the other.
    No. It's just a rather confusing battle going on.

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    We really just have to look at how international law handles the purchase of private property by foreign countries and what kind of domain that gives them. I would expect that to be something outlined in an international accord.

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    @wolfgirl90 the point I was trying to make is that this dispute was dying down but the Japanese government made that move which rekindled the dispute. it was stupid of them because the Asian counties really don't need any more hostility among each other.
    Well, here's the thing. As far as Japan is concerned, there really isn't any "dispute" going on; just China flexing muscles...again. The Japanese government doesn't recognize any of the claims from China or Taiwan, so they went about their business.

    And as I said, the Japanese government already believed that they had control over the islands since the US ceded control back to them. Buying the islands from the Kurihara family was a domestic agreement that allowed the government to have complete ownership of the islands; they still had control over them when the Kurihara's owned them.

    The Kurihara family merely owned the islands. The islands were still under the jurisdiction of the city of Ishigaki when the Kurihara's owned them. Its not as if the Kurihara's ownership of the islands caused them to be a completely neutral territory or that China and Taiwan were any more happy with the arrangement than they are now.

    China has been pissed about this since 1972. The Kurihara ownership didn't change anything. Heck, even the actions of Ishigaki have made them angry. Ishigaki wanted to make a holiday marking the annexation of the Senkaku Islands and China condemned it.

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    so I skimmed through your history lesson. are you sure that treaty was endorsed by ALL allied powers? China was part of the Allied Powers... :/
    If you mean the Treaty of San Francisco, then yes. In fact, the fact that China was a member of the Allied Powers is part of their argument.

    Like I said, China says that since the Senkaku Islands didn't belong to Japan, the US shouldn't have transferred power without consulting the other members of the Allied Powers, since the collective Allies (not just the US) got to decide what extra territory Japan got to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skilero View Post
    We really just have to look at how international law handles the purchase of private property by foreign countries and what kind of domain that gives them. I would expect that to be something outlined in an international accord.
    It is, but there is a problem. Once again, if the Senkaku Islands were already under Japanese control, then there is no issue about "foreign" powers.
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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    It is, but there is a problem. Once again, if the Senkaku Islands were already under Japanese control, then there is no issue about "foreign" powers.
    >Japan had control
    >Lost from treaty
    >Japan became foreign entity de jure

    No?

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    It is situations like this that makes me wish mother nature had a ”say” in it. Just to show the puny humans who is baws.

    That aside, what advantage does the territory hold for China or Japan....


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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Well if the U.S. decided that japan should get it was because of this little thing called the Truman Doctrine which made it the mission of the United States to stop the spread of communism. As for why the United States made the decision is because we where the pants in the world and we where responsible for the occupation of japan so we made the rules for what happened after.

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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Skilero View Post
    >Japan had control
    >Lost from treaty
    >Japan became foreign entity de jure

    No?
    That's kinda the issue at hand.

    Again, Japan argues that it annexed the islands during the Sino-Japanese War when they belonged to no one. Because of this, when the San Francisco Treaty stated that Japan return some of China's territory, such as Taiwan (then Formosa) and the Penghu Islands (part of Taiwan), the Senkaku Islands didn't count and Japan never relinquished control over them. Therefore, when the United States ended their occupation of Japan and gave the islands to Japan, Japan gladly accepted what they thought belonged to them in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheese the saurus Rex View Post
    That aside, what advantage does the territory hold for China or Japan....
    Some (potential) oil and gas reserves, sheep, fish, an endangered mole, an endangered albatross (no, really), an abandoned fish processing plant, and three large rocks (not joking about the last part; three "islands" of the Senkaku Islands are nothing more than barren rocks).

    The islands don't really stand to give any country any real advantage. The five islands (technically "islets") are small and uninhabited and have been deserted for over 70 years now. The amount of oil and gas near the islands has never been confirmed and even Japan, who believes that they control the islands, hasn't done anything with the islands beyond surveying it. Hell, they have prohibited the city of Ishigaki from developing the islands.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 09-17-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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    Default Re: China: Anti-Japan Protests

    Quote Originally Posted by Seung-li View Post
    I thought this died out already. o_o; Now they're still going at it on each other?
    That's politics. Like a kid on a playground that wants something just because someone else has it.

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