People Boycotting Oreos

[Miss Moonlight]

Of course both sides wish the other would just switch to their side. If the bisexuals and bicurious would just act heterosexual and the homosexuals would just stay celibate if not in the closet than the fundies would be happy and everybody would "get along." If the fundies renounced their faith and gave crossing swords in an orgy a try, than everybody would "get along".

Neither is a realistic or reasonable expectation even though both sides like to sometimes pretend one or the other is.

But reality is what it is. And the question is can the fundies give the gays acceptence, the right to marry, etc and suffer no ill consequences for it because it "won't affect them"? The obvious answer for fundies is "no" because of laws that will punish them, broken families, serious losses to their church, to say nothing of the lost souls from their point of view.

Can you at least appreciate this for the case of the fundies?

... are you serious right now?

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

July 10th and this thread still exists? lol But anyways I do have one thing to say...

Of course both sides wish the other would just switch to their side. If the bisexuals and bicurious would just act heterosexual and the homosexuals would just stay celibate if not in the closet than the fundies would be happy and everybody would "get along." If the fundies renounced their faith and gave crossing swords in an orgy a try, than everybody would "get along".

I haven't read the thread but I think this translate to a homophobe in disguise.

Unless I missed something, there's no way to counter this....

[sunnyside]

... are you serious right now?

Neither is yours.

Since I didn't think I was listing an expectation to which one would reply "neither is yours" I think I might have confused with that bit.

And Miss Moonlight just jumped in here (EDIT: Kaitou as well) , so for their sake I should point out that we're not arguing about whether gays should be allowed to marry or anything like that. Rather at this point in the thread we're arguing about if fundamentalist christians are affected by gay rights and associate law and culture, or if it doesn't affect them, as people seem to like to claim.

I don't think we actually have any fundamentalists in the thread though, I'm not one.

What I felt deathblade was effectively claiming was that it wouldn't affect them, if they'd just renounce what they consider to be the most important thing in their lives.

The fundies think the homosexuals should just not have sex if they don't enjoy it with a member of the opposite sex.

I was saying that insisting on either change isn't reasonable, or at least would represent a major sacrifice on the person making the change.

WHAT LAWS?! You keep speaking laws, but you don't provide any. FOR EITHER SIDE. If they quit pushing the Anti-Gay marriage crap, and leave folks alone, there won't be much of an issue. It's just like the KKK. They don't go to Harlem. They don't tell all of the people that they hate how to live their live. They stay in their own area and do their own thing. Granted, that's not how it used to be. But it's not like the NAACP tries to tell the KKK what to do either. Sure they still bring up that the KKK's still a bunch of bigots, but they won't stop them so long as no one's a target. They want to burn crosses in their own yard, it's ok. They burn it in someone elses yard, there's an issue. If you're talking about the ban on civil unions in South Carolina, As far as I know that's the only state that's done that, and even passed that. And they've realised that they've screwed the straight people over too. So don't expect that law to stay long.

I've been mentioning laws. Maybe what you want is an example? There aren't so many of these laws on the books yet, but I'm sure there are some cases. Let me see if I can google something up. Here we are:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/...ers_sued_f.php

What do you think of that in light of the fundies not being affected and maybe

What? How does people acting or believing the way they normally do affect this? Forcing everyone act a certain way or believesomething is only going to ruin the situation. Not help it. The only way to "get along" is for people to accept that they have differences and leave each other alone. Not change themselves.

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Since I didn't think I was listing an expectation to which one would reply "neither is yours" I think I might have confused with that bit.

Not sure what you mean by that.

And Miss Moonlight just jumped in here (EDIT: Kaitou as well) , so for their sake I should point out that we're not arguing about whether gays should be allowed to marry or anything like that. Rather at this point in the thread we're arguing about if fundamentalist christians are affected by gay rights and associate law and culture, or if it doesn't affect them, as people seem to like to claim.

I don't think we actually have any fundamentalists in the thread though, I'm not one.

What I felt deathblade was effectively claiming was that it wouldn't affect them, if they'd just renounce what they consider to be the most important thing in their lives.

No. I didn't say they had to renounce anything. Only they just stop infringing on other peoples rights, and leave the LGBT folks alone. They're still free to hate, provided they don't commit any crimes. ie: like the KKK now and days.

The fundies think the homosexuals should just not have sex if they don't enjoy it with a member of the opposite sex.

Ahem, most of those same fundamentalists believe people should only have sex for procreation and not enjoyment, regardless of sexual orientation.

I was saying that insisting on either change isn't reasonable, or at least would represent a major sacrifice on the person making the change.

Again, not asking anything more than for people to stop the trampling of liberties, on all sides.

I've been mentioning laws. Maybe what you want is an example? There aren't so many of these laws on the books yet, but I'm sure there are some cases.

My point exactly. If people stopped all of this nonsense, we could get rid of these laws before they're on the books.

Let me see if I can google something up. Here we are:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/...ers_sued_f.php

What do you think of that in light of the fundies not being affected and maybe

Ok, this is an interesting example. But first, the suit was filed and won with the states discrimination act, not a some crazy law. Second, it's also known that the photographers only pulled out when finding out that it was a gay wedding. Not like taking a bunch of pictures of a gay wedding is going to ruin a business, now. It's just pictures. Lastly, if they had any short of disposition against gay marriage, they should have at least had some sort of notice on the website and/or the business property. And the fact that they didn't even bother to ask if it was a gay marriage in the beginning, shows that they must not care too much about the issue of gay marriage. Yet they could've still done the photos, but they didn't. They could've had a sign in the office showing they opposed gay marriage, and they didn't. They could've even offered the couple's business to another company without such reservations and it would've settled it easily. Are both sides clean of this issue? By no means. But both sides could've taken steps to avoid the issue. And for those that wish to argue the First Amendment right of Freedom of Religion, The U.S. Government has said countless times that discrimination isn't protected by the Freedom of Religion

So got anything else? Maybe pray tell and example of a family being ruined that you love to claim can happen?

[Ranshiin]

If anyone's curious this whole debacle got part of an article on Cracked dedicated to it; however since it's Cracked I can't link to the in-question article.

I just thought I'd mention it. This went pretty deep. ;f

[sunnyside]

, if they had any short of disposition against gay marriage, they should have at least had some sort of notice on the website and/or the business property.

Um, that would be illegal in that state. That's exactly the point of that law.

they must not care too much about the issue of gay marriage.

Seriously? That's the conclusion you drew from that series of events. Really?

Maybe pray tell and example of a family being ruined that you love to claim can happen?

Are you for real? I did not expact you to ask that. You're from Alabama and you've never heard of this stuff?

Look, I'm currently with the ELCA Lutheran church, and some ELCA churches have opened up a few shelters homeless LGBTQ teens. Aparently they're at a high risk of being abused in traditional shelters or out on the street. While I'm sure there are lots of reasons they could have come to that point in life, many cite being kicked out for being gay as why they're there. That particular phenominon is occuring on the order of thousands. And I suspect it's dwarfed in magnitude by kids that manage to keep it in the closet or bisexuals that just date the other sex until they're able to support themselves.

Do you really need me to try and track down some numbers or anecdotes or something?

[cowtipper]

wtf did not read tldr

[DeathBlade/13.666]

Um, that would be illegal in that state. That's exactly the point of that law.

Ah, no. The point of the law is to stop discrimination. Having a sign that says "We opposed Gay Marriage" or "Support Traditional Marriage" isn't discriminating your service. It's notifying people of your stance on the issue. And with a stance like that, do you really think a gay couple will walk in and continue to seek their business after seeing that sign? Hell no. They'll walk right back out and take their business to someone that supports gay marriage.

Seriously? That's the conclusion you drew from that series of events. Really?

Pretty much. They didn't even think to ask the person if it was a gay wedding in the initial talks. Granted once they saw it was a gay marriage, they said no. No foresight what-so-ever. Pretty crappy way of running a business that could thrive on that sort of work. I mean, I'm not even a photographer and I thought of that within the first 10 seconds of reading the article.

Are you for real? I did not expact you to ask that. You're from Alabama and you've never heard of this stuff?

Look, I'm currently with the ELCA Lutheran church, and some ELCA churches have opened up a few shelters homeless LGBTQ teens. Aparently they're at a high risk of being abused in traditional shelters or out on the street. While I'm sure there are lots of reasons they could have come to that point in life, many cite being kicked out for being gay as why they're there. That particular phenominon is occuring on the order of thousands. And I suspect it's dwarfed in magnitude by kids that manage to keep it in the closet or bisexuals that just date the other sex until they're able to support themselves.

Do you really need me to try and track down some numbers or anecdotes or something?

Ah, from the way you were talking I was getting a different picture. One that had completely straight families being broken up because one or two was hardcore on the issue. But no, with a LGBT family member crap like that happens a lot. And it's absolutely sad and pathetic too. Fortunately my family beats into our heads that family comes first regardless of ideals, values, money, politics, faith, and God. It truly is a shame to see how well we take care of our family members when compared to other families.

[cowtipper]

well i believe that how i got on earth comes first, which i guess is from blood family, and they used to give me 5$ a day in highschool but stopped when they figured out i was waiting till closing at the lunch line to eat the leftovers... damnit that's 100$ a month i received on avg and i spent it to support a horrible habit of buying goods doing alchemy and then selling at a 10000% profit margin and then wasting that money on myself... now i don't get anymoney just a place to call my home no vehicle and in most ways i am happier... sry bout the digression but i am drunk on benzos and coffee... so to tie it back into what i just read...

stop making excuses for your actions and live up to a higher potential, one doesn't need to gain attention through political affairs regarding issues that have been cross referenced since B.C times... heck guys used to have sex with eachother out spite for the reasons of humiliation, now it can be seen as affection??? what happened to people... i personally don't support gay marriage and wish it would stay out of mainstream media... at the same time if you have a tight ship and don't gossip about your ordeals then live how you feel. the world is an oyster in a nut-shell, just don't go about preaching over false pretenses i hate having to dissipher sp.. through all the ambiguity.
(doubtfulness or uncertainty of meaning or intention: to speak with ambiguity; an ambiguity of manner.2. an unclear, indefinite, or equivocal word, expression, meaning, etc.: a contract free of ambiguities; the ambiguities of modern poetry.) wtf modern poetry oh i am about to destroy the wanna be hipsters with a classical taste...

walk in the light and illuminate all the darkness so when it's pitch black you can see with the proper motives, or, at-least that's what i believe...

umm what else has been boycotted...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boycotts

and dam who here believes in karma??? i personally think that the world doesn't owe you anything and you create your own destiny and that everything is recorded, yet somethings can be forgotten about on the spot and rememembered at the same rate likewise... and if your treated unfairly well what is unfair? everyone is different as noted by fingerprints and dental records among other things, yet at the same time why do some people get babied or rather coddled when others are under a constant siege of slander??? and why are countries county laws and everything different, i guess at some point in everyones life they get to choose the place they die, R.I.P friends i'm praying for you right now...

and to my enemies i am also praying for you as well, i have no enemies as you are a mere person as i am that shares a spec on the infinate galaxy just as i... it doesn't matter to me where you have been but rather where you are going in rememberance and improvement to all that has passed.I am a sinner...are you??? yet i can ask advice from a special person or rather group of people in the star constelations...

in a popular anime i heard that we have eyes to see what is infront of us, to see ourselves move closer to the destination, and everything around us is always moving, whilst we can see what's infront of us others can watch our backs and grieve or have joy etc etc... i don't know what everyone thinks about eachother, but currently i believe i just exist as a pseudonym that has no purpose other than to relax in the peanut gallery as the world becomes more transparent...

YOU DON"T KNOW ME AND YOU PROLLY NEVER WILL!
at the same time you can choose to read what i am writing and interpret it, but please no negativity... instead of focusing on all the negritude try to illuminate the darkness to make the world a better place, because it only takes a single spark to ignite the piston which starts the wheels in motion, just as a conversation or fact can put a tad bit more information in your brain... it's up to you to use it for your benafit.. everyone is used and taken advantage of in someway just as people take advantage of themselves by molding their destiny... so what is it going to be??? what ground rules will you set for yourself and will you let the world evolve... i believe due to carbon dating the earth is nearly 5billion years old which is a fact... have you ever thought about the sparks in motion and all the gears that put you on the planet almost 5billion years later???


some people take life for granted, whilst others believe to cherish every last breath like it's your last? have you ever heard the phrase or something to the effect that you never know when your going to die??? so with this information i think to myself ummm i can estimate that i will live longer than most humans because i behave a lot differently and have trained myself to not give a buck about the negativity and live healfully. yes i have some habits that people have attached a stigma too but at the same time these habits are celebrated in other cultures... yes everyone is ignornant to some extent... is the grass really greener on the other side??? well if you pick at cannabises leaves your left with a different color depending on the strain... just like peeling apart an orange what's inside you is much brighter than what is shown... and people have potential for???

on the flip-side people abuse their bodies and some females have done some harmful things to themselves whilst the baby was in the womb. my child was aborted and where i live that is not a crime... ok i might be lying about that part... but really in japan on avg 7 people are born per 1000 population, on the flipside niger is 50...or about 5.2X more... look these numbers aren't the most accurate, but seriously in america have you heard of the baby-boom? and then whatever happened to people who don't get married, to those who have 2 children... and it used to be that in china you're only allowed a certain amount of children unless you want to pay an extra fee...

talking about population where are the masses hanging out? the movies, malls, clubs, bars??? what ever happened to pick-up games... well maybe i am speaking from my current observations about my surroundings... but it sickens me when i play tennis for hours on end bymyself without even seeing anyone at the park... i mean even if your better than me my shots are more random for the sake of the discussion and it would teach you to be patient and feel good when i return a harder shot...

but where is the ball going after that? and how are you preparing yourself to get better at your hobbies. i am hurt when i see potential waisted or rather not given a chance to blossom. also formal introductions??? na man i don't know you and you don't know me lets play... let your actions speak louder than words until you have something nice to say, or don't say anything at all.... everyone has the right to remain silent... currently i have a prose voice on the website yet my mind just goes... i have learned to have faith in myself and tried to trust in me before i trust in others... animals can pick up on that stuff without speaking traditional words, and each on is different just like each human is different... and some people believe humans are animals... so what are you going to do to support your fellow breed? likewise how do you cope with your surrounds? and what do you think should change about the media? ask that to yourself and think. take however-ever long you need,,,

currently i am sick of propaganda and rumors, as well at patriatism, why should one get special treatment? currently on this forumn i've recieved many warnings for innaporpraite lang. however in real life it's worse... people actually have to try hard to come back with my responses after i get insulted,,, remember the right to remain silent and speak with clarity... there are moments when people should just shut up and listen... yet in regards to this forumn in relation to my anime experiance and the fact that i used to be a mod on a distant plan-et it's sad... yet i realize this website provides great media and there is a time to listen... it's great people have choices to suite their moods...

you have choices make them, and stay level headed no when to walk away... peace