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Thread: People Boycotting Oreos

  1. #51
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    Oh, my heavens! RAINBOW OREOS (which, I know it's just an ad and they're not actually selling them, but they look delicious anyway)

    I suppose more oreos for non-homophobic people.
    Well..... They do sell colorful oreos per season/holiday..

    So.. If you buy and save all of these, you get a "close enough"









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  3. #52
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Regardless of whether or not they support the gays, no one could resist a six layered Oreo. NO ONE.
    GREAT SPACE

    THAT BOOTY.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieWolf2508 View Post
    Regardless of whether or not they support the gays, no one could resist a six layered Oreo. NO ONE.
    Perhaps but... putting the gay rights thing aside, I don't six-layered Oreo's would be commercially viable anyway. I mean, you'd only get about four of them in a standard sized pack, otherwise they'd be ridiculously long.

    I'd love to see them do it though... if at least, just to wind those primitive-minded, boycotting idiots up.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieWolf2508 View Post
    Regardless of whether or not they support the gays, no one could resist a six layered Oreo. NO ONE.
    Agreed. And while I do believe that it would mean that we'd get less in a pack, I'd still be good to see how it would taste.

  8. #55
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel View Post
    Same here. I am a proud and happy STRAIGHT man. And I share in the ,,, discomfort of gay affection in public to some extent. But like mentioned, they ARE people too. And God did not tell us to HATE our fellow man. HELL, I have friends that are gay, and as long as they respect my boundaries, there has never been a problem.
    God told us to love every single person, so being homofobic of having any other kind of hatred towards other people we only will push ourself away from Him, no matter if he we are religious or not.
    I completely agree with your statemente, just gotta respect them as soon as they respect us and everything will be fine, gays can be as good persons and as bad persons as every straight guy/woman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayu 「あゆ」 View Post
    Society likes conformity, consistency, lack of change, lack of diversity and individuality amongst peers, and like-minded people. In other words, people hate "different" and hate "change" even more. Society is evil.
    You're absolutely right about that and it's really sad to conclude it, that we live in such a society
    Some people make their differences their bigger strenght (as being very smart and having natural talents for music, sports, ...) and those differences are sometimes motive for admiration and proud from people in general though most of the times the common feelings are hatred, envy, harm, etc., 'cause "we" often tend to deslike what's different from the socially accepted casual

    Quote Originally Posted by threewolves View Post
    What I have a problem is the hate thats spewed forth, specially from so called christians.

    But well for everything you said about why homosexuality is the downfall of mankind, you could also pretty much point out the same to straight couples. Divorce, massive cheating, children being affected from unhappy straight homes, and so on.

    But like I said, folks can have their opinion, be passionate about it, but how about keep the hate out of it.
    Dude, thanks for those inspiring words
    I agree 1000% with you but, unfortunately, as people in general get passionate for something they tend to defend it by spreading out their hate for things they don't like instead of just supporting and fighting for the ones they're fond with nut that's just my opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Howdy View Post
    No, they're power-hogs; that's why they locked up Galileo, so the people wouldn't gain disbelief in the Church and stop following Christianity - If that were to happen they'd lose all their money and support.
    Well, the fact that Church has made a lot of huge mistakes and that some people big on it still keep doing things that are completely contrary to the principles they were supposed to belief and profess (and no doubt about that!) doesn't mean that Church is wrong or just tries to fool people and have their money, as bad teachers don't make teaching in general a bad profession or as drunk guys who beat their wifes don't make all married-mans some violent assholes


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  10. #56
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Lost power for a while. I'm surprised to find this still active.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Not like any of the 237,465,134,986,517,465 Protestant faiths are any better. Honestly, It's really starting to look like the Agnostic Christian is the best Christian. Still of the issue of Gay Rights and support of them. How can one strip the rights of others and expect to have the luxury of those liberties for oneself?
    As you noted there are quite a few flavors of protestant churches. However some are exceedingly and explicitly gay friendly to the extent that they interprite the words used in the new testament to refer to activities other than homosexuality (there is a little ambiguity in there). Thus they consider the practice to be completely OK and not sinful in the slightest. These are thriving in the south on an insurge of people out of the very gay hostile churches. In the north there tends to be quite a bit of tolerance in enough protestant denominations that they don't stand out of the crowd as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howdy View Post
    What? I think you misinterpreted what I said, I meant that the people that are against gays ALL have no good reason to be against them besides the fact that is says being homosexual is a sin in their bible (which is full lies).
    I could have misinterpreted you. I was responding to your comment
    they're not being affected by their homosexuality.
    and thinking that you meant that all those Christians (well and a number of other religions and a handful of others) would not be affected by the spread of homosexual rights and acceptence. I was pointing out that they WILL be affected by it no matter how tolerant they are or how many rights they vote in.

    Quote Originally Posted by threewolves View Post
    Not sure why I was quoted, you can have your opinion, and you can speak passionately about it. What I have a problem is the hate thats spewed forth, specially from so called christians.
    I was responding to your comment that you didn't understand where the hate is coming from. I was just pointing out that many Christians stand to suffer greatly as the gay community gains rights and acceptance. Those calling for tolerance now and acceptance of differences are not going to grant either once they are the ones in the position of power. I think the hate comes from well placed fear.

    My particular branch of Christianity is quite tolerant and even allows people in active homosexual relationships to become pastors. However I expect Christains to generally be attacked and discriminated against en mass due to the sort of attitude in your last post and the generalization in DeathBlade's.

    However the issue is the pretty clear call to love your enemy and turn the other cheek. While Christ was pretty clear on these matters, those are particularily hard teachings to follow.

    But well for everything you said about why homosexuality is the downfall of mankind, you could also pretty much point out the same to straight couples. Divorce, massive cheating, children being affected from unhappy straight homes, and so on.
    I'll agree that there are plenty of things out there that have worse societal affects and plenty of things that are more explicitly called out as sinful that are legal in our society.

    I think where homosexuality stands apart is that nobody is throwing "I make my kids unhappy" pride parades.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Homosexuality is a 'sin'... Alongside many, many, many things that nobody pays even the slightest bit of attention to. I have a hard time believing that they actually think that homosexuality is wrong because of what the Bible says. I mean, if one is going to say that homosexuality is wrong because of what the Bible says, they're going to have to start believing a lot of other nonsensical things are wrong as well, but they can't do that. They just have some kind of personal problem with homosexuality.
    Since the dawn of the spread of Christianity there was the idea that the ancient Jewish laws applied to Jews not Christian gentiles. Early Christians didn't even know about the old testament laws.

    The issue with homosexuality is that it gets mentioned in the New Testament (though not by Jesus himself).

    Though again I think the particular degree to which people are aggresive against it has more to do with well placed fears.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    And something that was meant to be just hysterical took a serious approach......

    V_V

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    As you noted there are quite a few flavors of protestant churches. However some are exceedingly and explicitly gay friendly to the extent that they interprite the words used in the new testament to refer to activities other than homosexuality (there is a little ambiguity in there). Thus they consider the practice to be completely OK and not sinful in the slightest. These are thriving in the south on an insurge of people out of the very gay hostile churches. In the north there tends to be quite a bit of tolerance in enough protestant denominations that they don't stand out of the crowd as much.
    I know, but homosexuality isn't the only issue I've fallen out of favor with. There are many. Though yes, there is a growing number of churches accepting LGBT folks, and there are many religions that allow LGBT's within their faith. They are still a minority within many faiths, not just Christianity. Also, like many that have seen these churches accept LGBT's, especially in the South, I feel this as more to do with money, politics, numbers of the congratation, and popularity amongst the world than actual faith. Much like the very much racist churches in the South from the days of Civil Rights coming out against racism and slavery and also apologizing from things in the past. they did so mainly to pander to the crowd to brings more folks in and get more money.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


  14. #59
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Since the dawn of the spread of Christianity there was the idea that the ancient Jewish laws applied to Jews not Christian gentiles. Early Christians didn't even know about the old testament laws.

    The issue with homosexuality is that it gets mentioned in the New Testament (though not by Jesus himself).
    Funny because I very consistently see Christians quoting Leviticus and other Old Testament books to condemn homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    I know, but homosexuality isn't the only issue I've fallen out of favor with. There are many. Though yes, there is a growing number of churches accepting LGBT folks, and there are many religions that allow LGBT's within their faith. They are still a minority within many faiths, not just Christianity. Also, like many that have seen these churches accept LGBT's, especially in the South, I feel this as more to do with money, politics, numbers of the congratation, and popularity amongst the world than actual faith. Much like the very much racist churches in the South from the days of Civil Rights coming out against racism and slavery and also apologizing from things in the past. they did so mainly to pander to the crowd to brings more folks in and get more money.
    Oh, but from the very beginning it's all about money and power. As is the church's current playing out on homophobia.

    Little do they know this time it may leave a deeper scar. In a time with the internet - such an easy exchange of information - people who are tired of their church's homophobic stance have a higher probability of not just turning against their own church, but going on to turn against the religion altogether.

    As I did... Although I wouldn't turn against it because it said things I didn't like, because that would be silly. If it is the truth, it is the truth. However, the history of the church - including the treatment of/attitude towards slaves, blacks, women, homosexuals, etc. - helped me to stop and think. It helped me to reflect on a question that I might have never really thought of otherwise: Does God really exist?

    Even if the only reason I wasn't a Christian anymore was because of their treatment of minorities and the church decided to stop hating on homosexuals and all of the sudden apologized, it would mean little to me. It will only happen a long time after society has shifted forward and same-sex marriage is already legalized on a national level. We have the information of history, we know about their views on slavery and women in the past. So honestly, at that point I'll be thinking - What group are they going to pick on next?

    Their apologies mean nothing. They just want to stay relevant. More people have recognized this, and many more will in the future. I hope, anyway.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Oh, but from the very beginning it's all about money and power. As is the church's current playing out on homophobia.
    The majority of your paragraphs I rather agree with whole heartedly. But this, I disagree. Now it comes to opinion ultimately, but I believe the early Judeo-Christians were more about the faith and money or power. Plus they were trying to stay alive and not be eaten by lions in the coliseum.

    Like you said though, it's all about money and power now. They wish they had the power that some of these muslim clerics have in the Middle-East. And one can't forget, power corrupts with greed and lust for more power. Many times I feel the song "Spreading the Disease" by Queensr˙che got things about organized religion right, though they compared Christianity to Prostitution.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    I know, but homosexuality isn't the only issue I've fallen out of favor with. There are many. Though yes, there is a growing number of churches accepting LGBT folks, and there are many religions that allow LGBT's within their faith. They are still a minority within many faiths, not just Christianity. Also, like many that have seen these churches accept LGBT's, especially in the South, I feel this as more to do with money, politics, numbers of the congratation, and popularity amongst the world than actual faith. Much like the very much racist churches in the South from the days of Civil Rights coming out against racism and slavery and also apologizing from things in the past. they did so mainly to pander to the crowd to brings more folks in and get more money.
    I'd heard about the racist thing before but your comment finally got me to look into it, because it occured to me I'd never run accross something in the bible that could really be used to suport racism.

    Feel free to look into it yourself. But for my time googling around all I could find was some stuff specific to Mormons (and that came from Joseph Smith not the Bible), and some stuff related to Southern Babtists who made a claim that the "mark of Cain" was being black (which is a heck of a stretch and I doubt that got much traction.)

    Otherwise racism as such was rather a matter of racist people who happened to also be Christian. It would have been very easy to let that go, which is probably why we're where we are today.

    Churches have a lot of room to let up on homosexuality that hateful attacks on it are over the top, and I think homosexual couples will eventually be as welcome if not more welcome than couples that contain someone who was previously divorced and has remaried. There isn't any reason they shouldn't be, though extremely conservative churches that don't allow divorce might not welcome homosexuals either.

    Still, there's that idea that divorce isn't good, and that feeling attached to homosexuality will, I fear, continue to draw attacks onto Christianity no matter how accepting and loving Christains become. I think fears related to that are the reason for the level of aggression sometimes seen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Funny because I very consistently see Christians quoting Leviticus and other Old Testament books to condemn homosexuality.
    An odd choice, unless they're just trying to toss out everything they can find anywhere. If it was just there I don't think we'd be in the position we're in today.

    Oh, but from the very beginning it's all about money and power.
    That's just ridiculous in that none of the early church leaders were persuing, nor did they recieve much in the way of money or power. Rather they spent a lot of time in prison and almost all were killed by Romans or mobs, and after Jesus they all knew what they were getting themselves into.

    In the time after you do get the rise of the occaional wealthy and powerful individual (Popes, mega church pastors, Joseph Smith). However most church leaders have little in the way of money or power and knew they wouldn't have much of those things. By and large, and for all their flaws outside of church, church leadership and certainly church members are in it for souls and love.

    I think fears of things like the gay community tearing a bisexual child out of their family and the church, or fears of losing their free speech or jobs, cause people to feel they need to be "practical" about the matter and be visciously opposed to homosexuals. Maybe that could produce some short term gains, but it isn't biblical. Though again the loving message of Jesus can be pretty impractical and tends to put Christains in a position to be oppressed. It's hard to follow that.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I'd heard about the racist thing before but your comment finally got me to look into it, because it occured to me I'd never run accross something in the bible that could really be used to suport racism.

    Feel free to look into it yourself. But for my time googling around all I could find was some stuff specific to Mormons (and that came from Joseph Smith not the Bible), and some stuff related to Southern Babtists who made a claim that the "mark of Cain" was being black (which is a heck of a stretch and I doubt that got much traction.)

    Otherwise racism as such was rather a matter of racist people who happened to also be Christian. It would have been very easy to let that go, which is probably why we're where we are today.

    Churches have a lot of room to let up on homosexuality that hateful attacks on it are over the top, and I think homosexual couples will eventually be as welcome if not more welcome than couples that contain someone who was previously divorced and has remaried. There isn't any reason they shouldn't be, though extremely conservative churches that don't allow divorce might not welcome homosexuals either.

    Still, there's that idea that divorce isn't good, and that feeling attached to homosexuality will, I fear, continue to draw attacks onto Christianity no matter how accepting and loving Christains become. I think fears related to that are the reason for the level of aggression sometimes seen.
    Yes now you see where the whole "black and white oreo" part came from too, and from the same group of people. And this is where actually reading the Bible and knowing where to quote pieces comes in handy. Take for instance this article. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...iref=allsearch
    Make you think that there's room in the church for homosexuals now, huh? Anyone can c/p pieces of anything to fit their ideals and meanings, regardless of what the original intention was. It can be with the Bible, the Quran, Einstein's theories, Edison's Patents, Shakespeare's Sonnets, or even the lyrics to all the songs on the 2112 album by Rush. Funny enough the Bible it often the most misquoted source. With people lumping stuff from Milton's Paradise Lost, Asop's Fables, and other stories from all over the world.

    And believe me, I wonder where the accepting and loving Christians are at too. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/opinio...iref=allsearch
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  19. #63
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    The majority of your paragraphs I rather agree with whole heartedly. But this, I disagree. Now it comes to opinion ultimately, but I believe the early Judeo-Christians were more about the faith and money or power. Plus they were trying to stay alive and not be eaten by lions in the coliseum.
    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    That's just ridiculous in that none of the early church leaders were persuing, nor did they recieve much in the way of money or power.
    Oops sorry, that's not what I meant. By "from the very beginning" I did not mean from the very beginning of Christianity, I meant from the very beginning of the church's campaign against homosexuality. That was in response to DeathBlade writing that churches turning around in support of LGBT rights is all about power and money. I'm saying that it (the campaign against homosexuality) was all about money and power to begin.
    Last edited by Bassoonista; 07-03-2012 at 05:41 PM.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    And believe me, I wonder where the accepting and loving Christians are at too.
    I was about to say that people being hateful or flamboyant tend to just get all the press. The Westboro Baptist Church gets crazy press coverage with their "God Hates Fags" stuff, but is only a couple dozen people.

    However I'd say Obama has gotten just a little press on the matter recently yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Oops sorry, that's not what I meant. By "from the very beginning" I did not mean from the very beginning of Christianity, I meant from the very beginning of the church's campaign against homosexuality. That was in response to DeathBlade writing that churches turning around in support of LGBT rights is all about power and money. I'm saying that it (the campaign against homosexuality) was all about money and power to begin.
    Um. That "campaign" would have started nearly 2000 years ago when Christains weren't down with the whole Greek and Roman man/boy love thing (some people claim stuff like that was what the new testatment passages were refering to as opposed to all forms of homosexuality). In any case that was a highly unpopular position to take in that culture and certainly didn't help on the "money and power" front.

    History goes through phases, but homosexuality could be punished by death in some of the early colonies. There seems to have been a more or less constant increase in acceptance of homosexuality through the history of America. I think some people are getting more viscious now as the tables have turned, and it's the Christians that still oppose homosexuality that are getting taken to court and losing to gay accusers. And the internet is where you would likely see that the worst, as it might be illegal or risky to say anything in real life.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Yes now you see where the whole "black and white oreo" part came from too, and from the same group of people.
    I'd disagree with that. First of all black churches are often some of the most opposed to homosexual marriage. And beyond that it seems (from the limited searching I've done so far) that most churches didn't even try and base racism off of anything in the bible. It's just that almost everybody in the country was a Christian, and those in the south were racist.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    Oops sorry, that's not what I meant. By "from the very beginning" I did not mean from the very beginning of Christianity, I meant from the very beginning of the church's campaign against homosexuality. That was in response to DeathBlade writing that churches turning around in support of LGBT rights is all about power and money. I'm saying that it (the campaign against homosexuality) was all about money and power to begin.
    It all depends on who's all in the congregation, my dear. You can judge their response by their numbers and by the type of folks that came in. One of the many reasons I've pushed myself away from the Catholic Church is the rise in Evangelical Catholics. They take on the more Evangelical stance, forgetting most of Pope John Paul II's teachings and works. They do so to widen their congregation to larger numbers and to fall into the arms of seemingly accepting Protestant Christians (Evangelicals, Baptists, and many others), whom only 20-30 years ago had been telling Catholics "They're going to burn in hell for being Catholic". Granted the Catholic Faith doesn't have nearly as much room to talk. But you see what I'm getting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I was about to say that people being hateful or flamboyant tend to just get all the press. The Westboro Baptist Church gets crazy press coverage with their "God Hates Fags" stuff, but is only a couple dozen people.

    However I'd say Obama has gotten just a little press on the matter recently yes?
    It would seem, but for many (myself included) memory is a wonderful thing, and the many LGBTs and their supporters have taken notice and will remember at the polls. Little Press, yes. But it's sufficient to get the votes.
    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I'd disagree with that. First of all black churches are often some of the most opposed to homosexual marriage. And beyond that it seems (from the limited searching I've done so far) that most churches didn't even try and base racism off of anything in the bible. It's just that almost everybody in the country was a Christian, and those in the south were racist.
    True, some of them do oppose gay marriage. But you don't see them screaming "God hates Gays" at peoples funerals now do you? Also, many people have used the bible to promote and base racism and slavery, on top of a million other things. Now, Don't you dare limit racism to the South. One of the most racist states I know of is Idaho, which last I checked was in the Northwest. Did you even know about the Chicago Race Riot of 1919? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Race_Riot_of_1919 Racism isn't a Southern Thing. It's an Everywhere thing, to include other nations. Now back to using the bible. Believe me, People used the Bible to support Racism and Slavery for centuries, among other things like Women's Rights. They even cited the bible when campaigning against interrace marriages and segregation.
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    The fools. Deep down they know that Oreos are delicious and will most likely eat them when no one is looking.

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  24. #67
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    It would seem, but for many (myself included) memory is a wonderful thing, and the many LGBTs and their supporters have taken notice and will remember at the polls. Little Press, yes. But it's sufficient to get the votes.
    Ok, the was to indicate a bit of sarcasm there. Obama got MASSIVE press coverage for that. And, despite the occasional conspiracy theory that he's a secret Muslim, Obama is very much a Christian.

    True, some of them do oppose gay marriage. But you don't see them screaming "God hates Gays" at peoples funerals now do you?
    To my knowledge the only group doing that is the wetborough baptist church I meantioned earlier as getting tons and tons of press for their protests despite being only a couple dozen people.

    Also, many people have used the bible to promote and base racism and slavery, on top of a million other things. Now, Don't you dare limit racism to the South. One of the most racist states I know of is Idaho, which last I checked was in the Northwest. Did you even know about the Chicago Race Riot of 1919? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Race_Riot_of_1919 Racism isn't a Southern Thing. It's an Everywhere thing, to include other nations. Now back to using the bible. Believe me, People used the Bible to support Racism and Slavery for centuries, among other things like Women's Rights. They even cited the bible when campaigning against interrace marriages and segregation.
    I spent a little time looking into that (hence the delay), and while racism wasn't limited to the south, it seems trying to come up with reasons why racism is biblical were pretty much limited to there, actually causing a split in the baptist church. And I can't find anything about religion regarding the Chicago riots. Just plain old fashioned racism fueled by the old "they're taking our jobs!" thing we're seeing again now with the illegal immegrants.

    Also racism was, and generally is, pretty much worldwide in various forms. It is certainly the historical default for a people.

    Also racism stuff seems silly to level at the bible. The first thing the early church leaders did was head out of their quite racist society to live with a bunch of different races in the vicinity.


    I did find some stuff on intermarriage, but it really seemed like a stretch, and I bet it's also a historical blip (i.e. I bet most if not all historic churches were fine with mixed race marriages and it only came up in that era of American history and maybe a few situationally similar blips here and there).

    Now, it isn't that everybody with an agenda doesn't get out their bible and hope they can find something they can twist, and churches with leaders that are supposed to be able to reveal new stuff with biblical authority can just say whatever they please. So we're getting a bit off topic here if you're just going to try to list all the ways you think Christianity was bad at some point while the history of everywhere else was all sunshine and unicorns until a missionary came along, and the atheist USSR and People's Republic of China were enlightened utopias.

    The point is that homosexuality is differnt for most groups of Christianity than previous issues. Tolerance and love should increase, and we're probably way too far down the "slippery slope" for them not to. But there will probably be a lingering feeling that a bisexual choosing a same sex partner over a heterosexual relationship isn't a good thing, even if they same sex couple is welcome in the church along with the divorcees etc. But I think that will still be too much for the gay community to leave be, and Christianity in general will then be the ones on the persecuted side.

    Of course the more fundamentalist ones will suffer much work, and there will be legal ramifications.

    Which isn't to say that "being practical" makes something right, especially within Christianity. That's not why I posted that.

    The reason for this discussion was because of all the people acting like none of this affects anybody, but you're asking people to basically sign up to be treated varying degrees of bad.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 07-06-2012 at 02:01 AM.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Cupcake View Post
    The fools. Deep down they know that Oreos are delicious and will most likely eat them when no one is looking.
    Ah ah, you're right about that


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  27. #69
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Ok, the was to indicate a bit of sarcasm there. Obama got MASSIVE press coverage for that. And, despite the occasional conspiracy theory that he's a secret Muslim, Obama is very much a Christian.
    ;P Of course, but the crap died down quick after several other issues propped up, like The Fast and Furious scandal, the Immigration stance he took, the defeat of 3/4 of Arizona's Immigration law, and the upholding of ObamaCare.


    To my knowledge the only group doing that is the wetborough baptist church I meantioned earlier as getting tons and tons of press for their protests despite being only a couple dozen people.
    Pretty much, but you get what I mean. Just look at all the folks protesting on the streets against gay marriage, Find a black person yet? 'Cause I haven't. Black churches may not be down with Gay Marriage, but they keep it within the church.



    I spent a little time looking into that (hence the delay), and while racism wasn't limited to the south, it seems trying to come up with reasons why racism is biblical were pretty much limited to there, actually causing a split in the baptist church. And I can't find anything about religion regarding the Chicago riots. Just plain old fashioned racism fueled by the old "they're taking our jobs!" thing we're seeing again now with the illegal immegrants.

    Also racism was, and generally is, pretty much worldwide in various forms. It is certainly the historical default for a people.

    Also racism stuff seems silly to level at the bible. The first thing the early church leaders did was head out of their quite racist society to live with a bunch of different races in the vicinity.


    I did find some stuff on intermarriage, but it really seemed like a stretch, and I bet it's also a historical blip (i.e. I bet most if not all historic churches were fine with mixed race marriages and it only came up in that era of American history and maybe a few situationally similar blips here and there).
    Yea, There's not much of a leg to stand on using the bible to claim racism and interracial marriage. But that's why this whole crap against the homosexuals has gotten worse and larger, because there's more to go on with in the bible. Otherwise they'd do like they did then, and hold the bible and claim the God hates (insert whatever), and we need (insert whatever again) for the sake of humanity and the Christian Nation. Oh, and they'd probably misquote the bible here and there to top it off.

    Now, it isn't that everybody with an agenda doesn't get out their bible and hope they can find something they can twist, and churches with leaders that are supposed to be able to reveal new stuff with biblical authority can just say whatever they please. So we're getting a bit off topic here if you're just going to try to list all the ways you think Christianity was bad at some point while the history of everywhere else was all sunshine and unicorns until a missionary came along, and the atheist USSR and People's Republic of China were enlightened utopias.
    Not sure what you mean here, but if you think I'm just bashing Christians for the sake of it. I'm not. There are many great Christians that have done many amazing things. Of course, there's always a mark somewhere in the history to claim the churches evilness, but folks like Blessed Mother Teresa of Culcutta give us hope and faith for the better. And it's no different than any other religion for that matter. Hell, I've seen some wickedness out of Athesises, too.

    The point is that homosexuality is differnt for most groups of Christianity than previous issues. Tolerance and love should increase, and we're probably way too far down the "slippery slope" for them not to. But there will probably be a lingering feeling that a bisexual choosing a same sex partner over a heterosexual relationship isn't a good thing, even if they same sex couple is welcome in the church along with the divorcees etc. But I think that will still be too much for the gay community to leave be, and Christianity in general will then be the ones on the persecuted side.
    Yes, there's more of a foothold for those the read and butcher the bible to claim hate against homosexuals, homosexual acts, and homosexual marriage. As far as a "slippery slope", I feel we've already feel down it with just heterosexual marriage alone. But that's not what the arguments about. Christians have always felt persecuted, since the days they were really persecuted. There's plenty of folks that are pushing their buttons too. But if they decided to give up this fight on homosexuality, and focus on helping the poor, sick, and unfortunate more. I'm sure those that hate the church would stop or at least quell down their attacks.

    Of course the more fundamentalist ones will suffer much work, and there will be legal ramifications.

    Which isn't to say that "being practical" makes something right, especially within Christianity.
    Ditto.

    The reason for this discussion was because of all the people acting like none of this affects anybody, but you're asking people to basically sign up to be treated varying degrees of bad.
    Did you mean a metaphorical "you" or a literal "you" meaning "me"? If so, how am I asking people to do this? I'm certainly not intending to sign people up for varying degrees of bad.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    ;P Of course, but the crap died down quick after several other issues propped up, like The Fast and Furious scandal, the Immigration stance he took, the defeat of 3/4 of Arizona's Immigration law, and the upholding of ObamaCare.
    Well, there's a reason they call it "news" not "last months". But everybody knows, there was that Time cover, and I'm sure it'll come up again a few times before we get to November.

    Pretty much, but you get what I mean. Just look at all the folks protesting on the streets against gay marriage, Find a black person yet? 'Cause I haven't. Black churches may not be down with Gay Marriage, but they keep it within the church.
    You get it

    I'm not sure about how much. A bit more with the pastors on the news than protests maybe. Though again at least half the protest pics you see are those couple dozen people from Westborough Baptist who seem to have nothing better to do with their time.

    Anyway, again, the point was just that this isn't "the same people" with the racial thing at all.




    Did you mean a metaphorical "you" or a literal "you" meaning "me"? If so, how am I asking people to do this? I'm certainly not intending to sign people up for varying degrees of bad.
    Well, I suppose metaphorically you ( I wish there was a better english word to use than "one" which always seems to awkward). Though you might be included in that "you" .

    Anyway I should elaborate since that's the single point that managed to get me into this thread.

    When gays can marry that triggers a whole bunch of laws that use the term "married" like some kind of Magic the Gathering combo. That along with some laws already on the books will be putting the more fundamentalist Christians out of business, and societal drift is probably going to turn their kids against them. Wrecking their livelyhoods and families is a high degree of bad.

    The bulk of Christianity which is much more accepting but not quite 100% will still get attacked, and will probably still be losing children who aren't interested in 99% acceptance or whatever, and the attacks will continue in general, and probably some legal ramifications there too as it might be easier to make something look like discrimination or a hate crime when it isn't just becuase of their background. And even for the 100% churches they'll probably be losing people to stuff like Grindr and cultural shifts in general.

    To say nothing of getting picked on for bad fashion :P

    Anyway the point, as discussed earlier in a bit more detail, is that the "it doesn't affect them" arguments are just plain wrong. It is reasonable to feel that they ought to support gay rights anyway. However I wish it was appreciated that Christians are and have been voting themselves a losing proposition on this that to varying degrees affects their church, family, and jobs.

  29. #71
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Well, there's a reason they call it "news" not "last months". But everybody knows, there was that Time cover, and I'm sure it'll come up again a few times before we get to November.
    True. But there's plenty of mounth old stuff that people harp on. Trust me, half my FB is covered in conservative fan-base crap, and not even the conservatives (that are my friends, at least) are pissed about his stance on gays. And they still think he's a Kenyan Muslim.



    You get it

    I'm not sure about how much. A bit more with the pastors on the news than protests maybe. Though again at least half the protest pics you see are those couple dozen people from Westborough Baptist who seem to have nothing better to do with their time.

    Anyway, again, the point was just that this isn't "the same people" with the racial thing at all.
    Well, I'll be damned. You found some black people protesting gay marriage in the open. Well, my argument's gone there.






    Well, I suppose metaphorically you ( I wish there was a better english word to use than "one" which always seems to awkward). Though you might be included in that "you" .

    Anyway I should elaborate since that's the single point that managed to get me into this thread.

    When gays can marry that triggers a whole bunch of laws that use the term "married" like some kind of Magic the Gathering combo. That along with some laws already on the books will be putting the more fundamentalist Christians out of business, and societal drift is probably going to turn their kids against them. Wrecking their livelyhoods and families is a high degree of bad.

    The bulk of Christianity which is much more accepting but not quite 100% will still get attacked, and will probably still be losing children who aren't interested in 99% acceptance or whatever, and the attacks will continue in general, and probably some legal ramifications there too as it might be easier to make something look like discrimination or a hate crime when it isn't just becuase of their background. And even for the 100% churches they'll probably be losing people to stuff like Grindr and cultural shifts in general.

    To say nothing of getting picked on for bad fashion :P

    Anyway the point, as discussed earlier in a bit more detail, is that the "it doesn't affect them" arguments are just plain wrong. It is reasonable to feel that they ought to support gay rights anyway. However I wish it was appreciated that Christians are and have been voting themselves a losing proposition on this that to varying degrees affects their church, family, and jobs.
    Well I can definitely see the crazy laws. It's up to the people to keep crap laws like that out of the books. (And look at the job they've done so far). And as far as the societal drift, and having their lives ruined. I think is has more to do with their hatred and stance against of something good that ruins it, not gay marriage. Their ignorance gets the better of them, not gay marriage. I'm sure those that already support gay marriage and are christian will still live happily ever after, or at least have their lives trampled by their position on the issue.

    Either way, I feel this whole marriage thing is a sham anyhow. Even for heterosexuals. But you don't see me stopping people from having the right to have it.
    Sadly, it makes more sense to me under MTG rules. "Tap two, cast Marriage. I place it on these two cards." "Tap three, cast Boomerang. I return Marriage back to your hand." "Tap two more, cast Marriage again on the same creatures." "Ok." "I'll attack, and it's your turn." "-Drops life points- Tap two and I'll cast Divorce." "My creatures are crying now. Are you happy?!" "... Yes ..." "You heartless monster! Think of the children!!" "You have no tokens on the field, therefore no children." ";.;"
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 07-10-2012 at 10:31 AM.
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  30. #72
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Well I can definitely see the crazy laws. It's up to the people to keep crap laws like that out of the books. (And look at the job they've done so far).
    Well, the laws are on the books. The attempts at passing "civil unions" are meant to try and bypass the MTG combo action. Though laws limiting speech, writing, and the ability of businesses to refuse services for things like gay ceremonies are popping up indpenedently. That's just the reality of trying to turn around a "slippery slope" once you're too far down it, the new majority slaps you around with laws or at least they could in a democracy, and probably will.

    And as far as the societal drift, and having their lives ruined. I think is has more to do with their hatred and stance against of something good that ruins it, not gay marriage. Their ignorance gets the better of them, not gay marriage.
    Well you can feel that way, and the bit about their stance isn't wrong, but it is what it is. Remember all I'm arguing against is the popular position that gay marriage and gay rights and acceptance in general have no effect on anybody else, painting those opposing such measures as simply mean spirited. But the reality is that the fundamentals stand to suffer greatly and will as a result of all this.

    I'm sure those that already support gay marriage and are christian will still live happily ever after, or at least have their lives trampled by their position on the issue.
    They're in a better position than the fundamentalists. However only 99% acceptance for bisexuals choosing a homosexual relationship over a straight one is still going to draw attacks and fracture families, it'll just be more the kids being upset and drifting off as opposed to parents disowning them. And again the legal ramifications are still there (Out of curiosity have you ever watched "Bad Santa" )

    And no church thinks Grindr is cool, so there are other societal pressures that result from all this that put negative pressures on the church, even for 100% accepting Christians.

    Though not to confuse I'm not saying that voting in gay rights and gay marriage is going to be some kind of apocolypse for more accepting churchers (though it might be for fundamentalists). It's still going to have negative effects.

    That means that, given current demographics, when these laws pass there are a bunch of Christians voting for something that will affect them in a negative way, they're just voting that way anyway. I'm just asking people to quit pretending this isn't the case.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 07-10-2012 at 11:59 AM.

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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Well, the laws are on the books. The attempts at passing "civil unions" are meant to try and bypass the MTG combo action. Though laws limiting speech, writing, and the ability of businesses to refuse services for things like gay ceremonies are popping up indpenedently. That's just the reality of trying to turn around a "slippery slope" once you're too far down it, the new majority slaps you around with laws or at least they could in a democracy, and probably will.
    There's always a slippery slope somewhere. But one has to be able to stand and walk on said slopes to escape them. Not demolish and rebuild into flat surfaces.



    Well you can feel that way, and the bit about their stance isn't wrong, but it is what it is. Remember all I'm arguing against is the popular position that gay marriage and gay rights and acceptance in general have no effect on anybody else, painting those opposing such measures as simply mean spirited. But the reality is that the fundamentals stand to suffer greatly and will as a result of all this.



    They're in a better position than the fundamentalists. However only 99% acceptance for bisexuals choosing a homosexual relationship over a straight one is still going to draw attacks and fracture families, it'll just be more the kids being upset and drifting off as opposed to parents disowning them. And again the legal ramifications are still there (Out of curiosity have you ever watched "Bad Santa" )

    And no church thinks Grindr is cool, so there are other societal pressures that result from all this that put negative pressures on the church, even for 100% accepting Christians.

    Though not to confuse I'm not saying that voting in gay rights and gay marriage is going to be some kind of apocolypse for more accepting churchers (though it might be for fundamentalists). It's still going to have negative effects.

    That means that, given current demographics, when these laws pass there are a bunch of Christians voting for something that will affect them in a negative way, they're just voting that way anyway. I'm just asking people to quit pretending this isn't the case.
    -Smh.- You're missing the argument completely. You're factoring in all of today's know variables on the issue, and citing that to an outcome of epic disaster on the fundamentalists. While everyone else is saying that if they stopped all their madness right now, and people could just live happily together or apart. No one will be hurt. Families won't get ruined. Again, you insert common known variables in equation to bring the reality check. But still. You're reality check isn't based on gay marriage. It's based on people's stances on gay marriage. You have yet to differentiate between the act and the opinion. And still even in your argument, you don't. You claim the act alone will tear people apart, but all of your evidence shows it's the opinion that it should be illegal is was seperates people.

    Oh btw, this just came in. http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/us/epi...html?hpt=us_c2
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 07-10-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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  32. #74
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    -Smh.- You're missing the argument completely. You're factoring in all of today's know variables on the issue, and citing that to an outcome of epic disaster on the fundamentalists. While everyone else is saying that if they stopped all their madness right now, and people could just live happily together or apart. No one will be hurt. Families won't get ruined. Again, you insert common known variables in equation to bring the reality check. But still. You're reality check isn't based on gay marriage. It's based on people's stances on gay marriage. You have yet to differentiate between the act and the opinion. And still even in your argument, you don't. You claim the act alone will tear people apart, but all of your evidence shows it's the opinion that it should be illegal is was seperates people.
    Of course both sides wish the other would just switch to their side. If the bisexuals and bicurious would just act heterosexual and the homosexuals would just stay celibate if not in the closet than the fundies would be happy and everybody would "get along." If the fundies renounced their faith and gave crossing swords in an orgy a try, than everybody would "get along".

    Neither is a realistic or reasonable expectation even though both sides like to sometimes pretend one or the other is.

    But reality is what it is. And the question is can the fundies give the gays acceptence, the right to marry, etc and suffer no ill consequences for it because it "won't affect them"? The obvious answer for fundies is "no" because of laws that will punish them, broken families, serious losses to their church, to say nothing of the lost souls from their point of view.

    Can you at least appreciate this for the case of the fundies?

  33. #75
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    Default Re: People Boycotting Oreos

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Of course both sides wish the other would just switch to their side. If the bisexuals and bicurious would just act heterosexual and the homosexuals would just stay celibate if not in the closet than the fundies would be happy and everybody would "get along." If the fundies renounced their faith and gave crossing swords in an orgy a try, than everybody would "get along".
    What? How does people acting or believing the way they normally do affect this? Forcing everyone act a certain way or believesomething is only going to ruin the situation. Not help it. The only way to "get along" is for people to accept that they have differences and leave each other alone. Not change themselves.
    Neither is a realistic or reasonable expectation even though both sides like to sometimes pretend one or the other is.
    Neither is yours.

    But reality is what it is. And the question is can the fundies give the gays acceptence, the right to marry, etc and suffer no ill consequences for it because it "won't affect them"? The obvious answer for fundies is "no" because of laws that will punish them, broken families, serious losses to their church, to say nothing of the lost souls from their point of view.

    Can you at least appreciate this for the case of the fundies?
    WHAT LAWS?! You keep speaking laws, but you don't provide any. FOR EITHER SIDE. If they quit pushing the Anti-Gay marriage crap, and leave folks alone, there won't be much of an issue. It's just like the KKK. They don't go to Harlem. They don't tell all of the people that they hate how to live their live. They stay in their own area and do their own thing. Granted, that's not how it used to be. But it's not like the NAACP tries to tell the KKK what to do either. Sure they still bring up that the KKK's still a bunch of bigots, but they won't stop them so long as no one's a target. They want to burn crosses in their own yard, it's ok. They burn it in someone elses yard, there's an issue. If you're talking about the ban on civil unions in South Carolina, As far as I know that's the only state that's done that, and even passed that. And they've realised that they've screwed the straight people over too. So don't expect that law to stay long.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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