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Thread: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

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    Default Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    So there was some suspicion as to why the civilian death count was so low, and apparently they've been very stingy about what they consider a civilian. FTA:

    It is also because Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.
    Or in laymen's terms: "Got a dick? Shoot it quick!" Making mistakes in heat of the moment combat is understandable, covering up mistakes to the point of giving such a broad license to kill is not.

    I'm not surprised though because I can't recall a time when Obama or his administration has said a nice thing about men. They probably see them as just tax payers, deadbeats, or combatants.

    The article is not the topic of discussion, it's a source.
    Last edited by Wio; 05-30-2012 at 11:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Everyone is a terrorist nowadays. =\

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    That is another topic entirely. This is not about nebulous semantics of terrorism.

    This same definition could be applied on any war where guerrilla like tactics are involved. Men are being labeled combatants (not terrorists, but non-civilians) based solely on their age and sex.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Not really... terrorism was mentioned quite frequently in that article. Maybe you didn't feel it was relevant, but I did.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Meh, I don't see why Obama's definition of "combatant" was the issue singled out from the article. I in no way embrace this method of counting, but in almost all countries in the world, isn't it always the men who get drafted anyway? To me, the whole "war again terrorism" is the biggest problem here. Obama was just doing whatever he must to minimize criticisms both against him from within the US and against the US from other countries.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Well this shouldn't be news, it's been happening seince the begining of time.
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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    I think the issue is in feeling a need to label everyone as a civilian or combatant. It forces you to make a diecision about how to handle those you aren't sure about that is going to lead to substantial error either way. Also beyond just deciding which is which you have the problem that a lot of people fall into a grey area. For example would some women and children making bombs count as a combatant? I'd rather they just added some catagory for individuals in grey areas either due to what they were thought to be doing and or the inability to determine their role.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    How about we all just stay out of each others business and just let people show who they really are in time?

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Cupcake View Post
    Not really... terrorism was mentioned quite frequently in that article. Maybe you didn't feel it was relevant, but I did.
    The topic is determined by the thread's title and original post. The article is not the topic, it is a reference to give context. Why do you want to change the topic anyway... I mean do you have anything to say about terrorism? Do you feel excluded, because you'd be counted as a civilian rather than a combatant?

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay
    Meh, I don't see why Obama's definition of "combatant" was the issue singled out from the article.
    I though it was disturbing that I'd be considered a militant in a strike zone regardless of whether or not I actually posed any danger. I could have linked to this article, but the other one gave more context.

    I in no way embrace this method of counting, but in almost all countries in the world, isn't it always the men who get drafted anyway? To me, the whole "war again terrorism" is the biggest problem here.
    But we've seen women and children used to endanger soldiers, so why did Obama draw the line at military-age males? He would have lowered the count even more if he pretty much included anyone in a strike zone.

    Also, maybe the war against terrorism would be over, or never started, if we weren't so willing to define military-age guys as combatants. You ever consider how the apathy for the lives of men might play a role here, my fellow combatant?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    This is such a shamefull and arrogant display and from our President no less. While I felt there was a lot of misdirected blame at Obama for nonsense reason, this isn't one of them by the least. I have no respect for him now.
    Last edited by Ayu 「あゆ」; 05-31-2012 at 02:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    The topic is determined by the thread's title and original post. The article is not the topic, it is a reference to give context. Why do you want to change the topic anyway... I mean do you have anything to say about terrorism? Do you feel excluded, because you'd be counted as a civilian rather than a combatant?
    I feel like you are trying to belittle me in a way, especially how you insist on explaining things to me. I'm not stupid, and I wasn't trying to change the topic of the thread. Just because what I said was not the response you were looking for doesn't mean you have license to get all snippity. I understand that men are being labeled combatants (not terrorists, but non-civilians) based solely on their age and sex. There may not be a direct connection between this and terrorism but it just goes to show that our government is very flawed. To say it's an entirely different topic is not true. As I said before, it was mentioned quite frequently in the article you posted along with the thread so it still has something to do with what we are talking about. The point of a forum is to contribute your input so don't jump down my throat if you aren't partial to my opinions.
    Last edited by Princess Cupcake; 05-31-2012 at 02:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    You seem less concerned that Obama is declaring civilians as "combatants" and more concerned that Obama is exclusively declaring civilian men as combatants, as though the Obama administration's perceived gender politics are a more pressing issue than the Obama administration's opinion of civilians in combat zones.

    I'm not saying you don't have a point. Despite the inferior social status of women in the Middle Eastern world, several organizations (Hamas, Fatah, and most recently al-Qaeda) have begun enlisting females as suicide bombers (with some volunteering), despite how it conflicts with the prior stated beliefs of those organizations and their members. If you consider a suicide bomber an enemy combatant, then it's at least inaccurate to say women can't be enemy combatants, since many already have been.

    That said, Obama's always been called a realist. I don't think his definition of "combatant" is meant as a subversive commentary on the fundamental role of men (we enlist women in our own military, after all). It is what it is: an analysis of the groups he's battling (an analysis that is, admittedly, inaccurate and outdated), and how it affects his current operation. So I can't help but feel like you're missing the forest for the trees somewhat - making an issue out of something that isn't there, while a much more sinister issue is staring you in the face.

    But if you feel compelled to combat any instance of the denigration of men that you perceive, that's your prerogative. Judging from how this thread has gone down, though, most people seem a bit more concerned about the bigger picture. I don't see the need to chastise them for discussing that very related issue, even if it's not precisely "the topic of discussion".
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    Default Re: Disturbing Definition of "Combatant"

    It's funny how there's not a military member posting in this, and how no one brought up the Law of Armed Conflict, and Rules of Engagement. Angry about folks only seeing Men as fighters? Well honestly, Women weren't on the fore front of battle, serving on the front lines side-by-side with men until WWII. Granted yes there's Joan of Arc and many other famous women warriors, but as a whole women did start fighting until WWII. Enter in the WASPs and the WAC. Now Men and Women are serving in almost every facet of combat duty there is together (though men still outnumber women in combat duty jobs, but the same can be said for technical jobs like mechanics). Why target men has fighters overseas? Well, it is society that deems men fight and women stay home, so as a soldier I expect to see a man shooting at me rather than a woman. Also, Women are being terrorized currently in Afghanistan. So why would a woman want to work with Al Queda or the Taliban, when their gender is being terrorized for going to school and getting an education, regardless of age? Once you actually apply culture, times, and current events into play, and well as rational thought, you can understand why the Obama Campaign is doing what they're doing. Besides, Obama embraced it, not came up with it. He's just going with what the generals in the military are saying what's working and going on, which are listening to reports from the soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen on the ground having to deal with the Afghans one-on-one and day-to-day. That's why Obama's embracing it, because it's what's the boys serving overseas are doing, and it's working for them.

    For more info on how the Military determines combatants and non-combatants, Law of Armed Conflict, and/or Rules of Engagement, feel free to ask me.
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