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Thread: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

  1. #1
    Member Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion's Avatar
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    Default Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    So I was doing my online coursework, and of course it had to be about this:

    For Michele Dickey's article "Girl gamers: The controversy of Girl Gamers and the Relevance of Female-Oriented Game Design for Instruction Design", I would like for you to think about your gaming experience in answering the following questions:
    What is "female" according to game design?
    What is the controversy of girl games?
    Lastly if you were to design a gender neutral game, what would it be? (Think about the various elements that you would consider gender neutral and how would you integrate them into a game.)


    Ok, first of all, let me introduce myself. I'm Nion, life-long videogame enthusiast, I have been actively involved in the entertainment industry for over 20 years working with videogames and other pop/cultural entertainment. I've been a staff writer/editor at a game website, an interpretor/translator of game info from Japan to America and Vice Versa, and other countries as I speak French, German, Italian, Spanish, Japanese and of course English. I have a game design degree and have been involved in videogame development. Let me tell you all something:

    The game industry did not at all, I repeat at all have a specific gender target when creating the first game systems ever. It just so happened, that boys, or shall I say males were mostly interested in this new invention.

    That said, to me, what this Author's definition of "female" in game design points to a dress up game or a Barbie doll game, which is for young girls. Who are like basically age 3-10. possibly up to 12 tops but not further because really: How many of you females played with dolls past the beginning of middle school? I think very few of you did.

    The controversy Michele Dickey creates is the fact that female games that are cutesy and adorkable. True, but that stops at young girls as a target audience. Videogames are for everyone. If anything, the only "problem" I see is that there are not enough female characters wielding swords and kicking butt, but let's face it, the game industry developers are still heavily dominated by males, and unfortunately like other people have mentioned above me in some select few games, women are objectified in the game like GTA and Duke Nukem, etc.

    If some people made a cooking game or something, it would have to be done very well with a touch of magic or in-game mechanism that will make the unreproducable in real life, which is the reason why we play videogames: to do things that are not possible in real life. It seems to me that this controversy is only giving women a bad rep, almost like saying hey, women cannot handle gore and magic and swords which is not true. If it were true, you may as well tell all women to go back to the kitchen, which obviously would enrage many females.

    But the truth is, there are many female gamers with different tastes and preferences. There are girls who love playing Halo, or any shooter games, both on and offline. I know this, have dated some and have many as friends as I am an avid gamer myself. There's everything from Diablo III, to Tera, Final Fantasy, Texas Holdem poker, katamari damacy, Farmville on facebook... the list goes on. There is definitely a videogame out there for all females that isn't cutesy and adorkable, garunteed.

    The point is, there is a huge female player base for videogames AND it's still growing, it's almost an insult and an understatement for the Author to say that games need to cater to women more and are completely male-based is very ignorant and shows that she does not know what she is talking about when it comes to videogames.

    You will see mature ratings, but you will not see labels like: For male only. Or For female only. Videogames are for everyone.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What do you all think?
    Last edited by Nion; 05-20-2012 at 10:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru has a reputation beyond repute Samuru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Mind to explain how exactly GTA objectifies women?

    Lone Wolf

  3. #3
    Member Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    When you have girls walking around in bikinis and such, and literally representations of people working for gangs and the female characters in them, that's giving them the stereotype that oh hey, they're just b**** and h***.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」 has a reputation beyond repute Ayu 「あゆ」's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Girls walk around at or near the beach in their binikis all the time. It's not a stereotype. It's just real life.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Oh, cool story.

     

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  7. #6
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    eh... i happen to enjoy ..... these....stereotypes >///>

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  9. #7
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Look here.

    Play games like Samus, Mirror's Edge, or Portal. I'm pretty sure those games make stereotypes of girls being kick-donkey-crazy-hawt-chicks.
    Which I aprove of.

    Edit: It changed a$$ to donkey, LOL
    Last edited by Sir Yorick of Vincent; 05-21-2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Lol

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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    also, to be fair... u dont see many "ugly" guys in games either....
    and the average gaming geek is probably much less in shape than his gaming heroes... idk, games arent meant to be a mirror image of reality D: thatd suck

  11. #9
    Member Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion has a reputation beyond repute Nion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    I like the memes, keep them coming.

    Ayu, guessing you haven't played all the GTA series. The bikini-clad girls at the beach themselves were not exactly the point of the example moreso than the fact that in a few games, there were certain scenes and environments where it was purposefully made to objectify females as sex objects. I hope that was more clear for you. Otherwise I live right next to the beach and it doesn't bother me seeing girls in bikinis because like you said, that's natural, no surprise there.

  12. #10
    Corrupted Data Inc. CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon has a reputation beyond repute CrimsonMoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Is there even a neutral game where only guys or only girls are allowed to play? I don't think they will make it, even in the future. Chances are, every game will be played by both men and women, but it's really up to individuals.

    >>Enter My World<<


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    Senior Member Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    You know, it's kind of odd; I don't play games often, but when I do, my gender really doesn't enter it at any point. Normally, it's "wow, i'm playing a game, this is cool" Not, "look at me being a super cool gamer girl because i'm a woman." Uh, you don't need to have a certain gender in place to push buttons and enjoy games.

    The fact that some women feel they are special or "unique" for being a "female gamer" perplexes me. And every time I see a girl in one of those pictures eating an xbox controller in an attempt to be "sexy?" (not sure what they're going for, but) ... I kind of want to throw them down the stairs a little bit.
    Last edited by Miss Electric Moonlight; 05-23-2012 at 07:36 PM.

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  15. #12
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    You know, it's kind of odd; I don't play games often, but when I do, my gender really doesn't enter it at any point. Normally, it's "wow, i'm playing a game now, this is cool." Not, "look at me being a super cool gamer girl because i'm a woman" uh, you don't need to have a certain gender in place to push buttons and enjoy games.

    The fact some women feel they are special or "unique" for being a "female gamer" perplexes me. And every time I see a girl in one of those pictures eating an xbox controller in an attempt to be "sexy?" (not sure what they're going for, but) ... I kind of want to throw them down the stairs a little bit.
    Well, the fact that most guys on games who meet girls probably makes those girls feel special. I remember being part of Xiled Gaming and treating girls with respect just because they were girls. That could make them feel special in a way.

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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Yorick of Vincent View Post
    Well, the fact that most guys on games who meet girls probably makes those girls feel special. I remember being part of Xiled Gaming and treating girls with respect just because they were girls. That could make them feel special in a way.
    Respect is always good. However, there should be no special-ness involved because you don't need to be a certain gender to play games.

  17. #14
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    Respect is always good. However, there should be no special-ness involved because you don't need to be a certain gender to play games.
    Girls are less common than guys in gaming. So if you meet a girl that's good at the game then if feel it is appropriate.

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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Games + Girls = Gamer girls = Win.


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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    God , i hate Grill Gamers. Seriously , the first thing they do when they join a server is yell or type "Hye guys , i am a chick! Thats right, i am a girl and i play videogames! But don't hit on me , silly boys!". Seriously , just play the damn game and shut up , no one cares about you being a girl.

    I have nothing about girls who play videogames though. Huge difference between Grill Gamers and Girls who play videogames.
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchman View Post
    God , i hate Grill Gamers. Seriously , the first thing they do when they join a server is yell or type "Hye guys , i am a chick! Thats right, i am a girl and i play videogames! But don't hit on me , silly boys!". Seriously , just play the damn game and shut up , no one cares about you being a girl.

    I have nothing about girls who play videogames though. Huge difference between Grill Gamers and Girls who play videogames.
    I think that most of the people that writes things like that are actually guys.

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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Yorick of Vincent View Post
    Girls are less common than guys in gaming. So if you meet a girl that's good at the game then if feel it is appropriate.
    If being a girl was some sort of gaming handicap, then that attitude would have been merited. As it turns out, that's not the case. Hand-eye coordination is not a function of gender.

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  23. #19
    Straight Outta Motown! Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy has a reputation beyond repute Token Black Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    I never really cared if girls played games or not.
    Man that is whack!

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  24. #20
    ♡ Your Royal Sprinkles ♡ Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake has a reputation beyond repute Princess Cupcake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Just like I don't care if guys play videogames. It really makes no difference. Gender is irrelevant. Female stereotypes annoy the living crap out of me. Yes, I play videogames and I consider myself to be an decent gamer. Big whoop. No, I don't belong in the kitchen (unless you're ok with food poisoning). No, I don't saunter around the beach wearing bikinis all the time laughing and giggling like an airhead.

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  25. #21
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    If being a girl was some sort of gaming handicap, then that attitude would have been merited. As it turns out, that's not the case. Hand-eye coordination is not a function of gender.
    No I would never say that Eris, but I feel it is harder for a small amount of girls to play with a bunch of guys specifically because guys act like, well, like guys around girls. So I feel that can hinder a girls playing ability.

    I played in a large community of gamers back in the day and the girls who played I respected because they dealt with crap from guys. I did my best as a higher up person to make sure they were treated fairly, but you cannot be there every minute.

    So that's what I was saying.

    Last game played was Prey and Mirror's Edge DLC
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  26. #22
    Senior Member Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight has a reputation beyond repute Miss Electric Moonlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Yorick of Vincent View Post
    No I would never say that Eris, but I feel it is harder for a small amount of girls to play with a bunch of guys specifically because guys act like, well, like guys around girls. So I feel that can hinder a girls playing ability.

    I played in a large community of gamers back in the day and the girls who played I respected because they dealt with crap from guys. I did my best as a higher up person to make sure they were treated fairly, but you cannot be there every minute.

    So that's what I was saying.
    Well, i've never had an xbox or ever played on xbox live; it just doesn't seem appealing to me. I'm more of a retro-gaming nintendo fan.

    The "crap females deal with from guys" (not all guys, of course), but the majority of 12-18-to whatever age possible, on xbox live/ps3 online or any other online gaming community or service, is usually misogynist bs furthered by the stereotype that gaming is (somehow) a guy's domain. Women who push the "i'm so cute and special because i'm a woman who plays games, now give me validation" don't help this.

    In a perfect world where people weren't so hung up on gender and gender roles, it wouldn't actually matter who played games or did anything else traditionally considered "male". It would be fun and enjoyable for mostly everyone who liked doing those things.

    However, that isn't the case. If you're a woman on xbox live especially (and if you make it known at all), you've already unknowingly (or knowingly) painted yourself as a target because of your gender. It's really kind of ridiculous and should be seen as more than just "boys being boys" but rather "boys being douches" for no other reason than they hear a female's voice and see their female gamertag, and decide it's a good idea to send them death/rape/etc. threats because they feel like being "hardcore" or "funny", or I don't know, whatever. Trolling on the internet shouldn't be a new concept to people who are used to being online, but sometimes it goes a little too far.

    I'd much rather enjoy and play the game, than deal with idiots and waste my time trying to fend off the mass of ridiculousness you get exposed to if you make yourself known as a female on an online gaming service -- especially where voice is enabled. Text is one thing, but hearing racial slurs and other crap just completely ruins the experience, in my opinion -- no matter how many times you block those people, there's usually always more.

    Of course, many people will simply say "oh, well if you're a woman and you don't like being harassed, simply don't go on xbox live." Seems like good advice, but that's really a copout answer from people who'd rather not deal with the issue.

    Not really a fan of online gaming for these reasons.
    Last edited by Miss Electric Moonlight; 05-24-2012 at 05:07 PM.

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  28. #23
    Senior Member Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent has a reputation beyond repute Sir Yorick of Vincent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was bored, discuss about games and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Moonlight View Post
    Well, i've never had an xbox or ever played on xbox live; it just doesn't seem appealing to me. I'm more of a retro-gaming nintendo fan.

    The "crap females deal with from guys" (not all guys, of course), but the majority of 12-18-to whatever age possible, on xbox live/ps3 online or any other online gaming community or service, is usually misogynist bs furthered by the stereotype that gaming is (somehow) a guy's domain. Women who push the "i'm so cute and special because i'm a woman who plays games, now give me validation" don't help this.

    In a perfect world where people weren't so hung up on gender and gender roles, it wouldn't actually matter who played games or did anything else traditionally considered "male". It would be fun and enjoyable for mostly everyone who liked doing those things.

    However, that isn't the case. If you're a woman on xbox live especially (and if you make it known at all), you've already unknowingly (or knowingly) painted yourself as a target because of your gender. It's really kind of ridiculous and should be seen as more than just "boys being boys" but rather "boys being douches" for no other reason than they hear a female's voice and see their female gamertag, and decide it's a good idea to send them death/rape/etc. threats because they feel like being "hardcore" or "funny", or I don't know, whatever. Trolling on the internet shouldn't be a new concept to people who are used to being online, but sometimes it goes a little too far.

    I'd much rather enjoy and play the game, than deal with idiots and waste my time trying to fend off the mass of ridiculousness you get exposed to if you make yourself known as a female on an online gaming service -- especially where voice is enabled. Text is one thing, but hearing racial slurs and other crap just completely ruins the experience, in my opinion -- no matter how many times you block those people, there's usually always more.

    Of course, many people will simply say "oh, well if you're a woman and you don't like being harassed, simply don't go on xbox live." Seems like good advice, but that's really a copout answer from people who'd rather not deal with the issue.

    Not really a fan of online gaming for these reasons.
    I feel like I'm in a philosophical debate for online gaming sexists.

    Girls that deal with online trolling from the male dominated area, which I don't care what you think, is dominated by males, are what I feel very respectable. Quantity wise.

    I know that girls can abuse the very fact they are girls online towards guys, but I never really put any attention at it because I was too worried about what guys would act like towards our female members.

    In the community there were about five Clans, each clan having so many divisions, those division having at least 3 different squads of players with at least 30 members minimum.

    However each squad was dominated mostly as males with maybe four or so females in the squad. I was a General in the clan called XGC (Xiled Gaming Clan) being one of five. I helped lead a division with four squads most like being around 200 or so members. I personally was in charge of recruitment and social affairs within the division. So if there was any problems in the division socially, sexist situations being one, then it went to me. I was in the Community for six years.


    What I'm trying to say is while I was there I saw more problems with males attacking females, and some of those females overcoming those sexist members and becoming great online gamers.

    Last game played was Prey and Mirror's Edge DLC
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