Dragon Ball GT - Coming to Nicktoons

[Kaitou+]

@Volta

The only reason I insulted you is because of you indirect insult to my knowledge...

Not knowing the FUNImation is the dub pretty much shows how much someone knows about the Anime media, in which case, you assumed I didn't know that.

Who doesn't know FUNimation are dubbers? I took it as you were calling me retarded.

No hard feelings hopefully.

[Volta]

@Volta

The only reason I insulted you is because of you indirect insult to my knowledge...

Not knowing the FUNImation is the dub pretty much shows how much someone knows about the Anime media, in which case, you assumed I didn't know that.

Who doesn't know FUNimation are dubbers? I took it as you were calling me retarded.

No hard feelings hopefully.

I never said any of those things.

None taken.

EPIC FORESHADOWING:



Oh, English dub.

[Craddle]

GT is not considered canon by hardcore fans. Most casual fans don't even know the difference. As for Mr. Toriyama, he's not the author of GT. Toei animation is. He only played a minor role in character creation.

Nicktoons - Dragon Ball GT - Sneak Peek 3:

+

[Volta]

@Craddle I have every single volume and DVD and I have been watching Dragon Ball for 15 years, and you are saying I'm not a 'hardcore fan'?

Because ya know, I consider GT canon based off the facts I have researched.

It seems to me, that the casual fan just makes basic assertions off of what they feel like instead of looking at the bare facts.... like...

The credits say Akira Toriyama is the author. Believe what you want, but the credits say "Author: Akira Toriyama". He IS the author of GT. Thats a fact thats unchangeable. The only way you can ignore that fact is by pathological denial. And thats about it.

[Inactive User Account]

I don't have Nicktoons, so I'll settle for watching GT on Youtube or elsewhere...


My Wi-Fi, it's gone out...

[Craddle]

@Craddle I have every single volume and DVD and I have been watching Dragon Ball for 15 years, and you are saying I'm not a 'hardcore fan'?

Because ya know, I consider GT canon based off the facts I have researched.

It seems to me, that the casual fan just makes basic assertions off of what they feel like instead of looking at the bare facts.... like...

The credits say Akira Toriyama is the author. Believe what you want, but the credits say "Author: Akira Toriyama". He IS the author of GT. Thats a fact thats unchangeable. The only way you can ignore that fact is by pathological denial. And thats about it.

1. I never said you weren't a hardcore fan. I was speaking in general.

2. I've been watching Dragon Ball since 1996. I own all 42 volumes of the Manga. I also own every FUNimation release as far back as the VHS. Including many r2 Dragon Box Single DVD's. You don't impress me.

3. GT only gives credit to Akira Toriyama as the "Original Author" Not the author of Dragon Ball GT. It was created by Toei Animation. Akira Toriyama is the author of the Manga for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, published by Shueisha. There was no Dragon Ball GT manga. Therefore, there was no author. Hence, he is not the author. He was only involved in a few character and landscape designs, as well as a minor role initially in supervising production.

Proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Toriyama

The third anime adaptation, Dragon Ball GT, was not based on his manga; however, Toriyama was still involved in the project by supervising its production, although in a limited way.

http://www.myfavoritegames.com/drago...aToriyama.aspx

After Dragonaball Z had ended, TOEI Animation asked permission from Toriyama to continue the Dragonball trilogy with a new series called Dragonball GT. This new series aired in Japan from 1996 to 1997, and was no where near as successful. Toriyama was not directly involved with Dragonball GT, but he did supervise the development.

http://www.daizex.com/guides/rumors/

A common fan tactic in arguments is to dismiss things one does not like, does not agree with, or one feels does not belong (in general) by saying "Well, the author had nothing to do with that!" In the past, we have been able to confirm Toriyama's initial involvement in DragonBall GT via his early character and landscape designs in the daizenshuu and DBGT Perfect File books... Although, he is not the author, he was initially involved in character designs.

Screenshot:



In case you can't read Japanese it says:

原 作 / Original Author
鳥山　明 / Toriyama Akira

[すずめ]

I don't have Nicktoons, so I'll settle for watching.

I have to download dbz.

[TheAsterisk!]

God, I'd hate to see you guys try to figure out the Halo or- God help us!- the Star Wars canon and continuity hierarchies.

Plot holes are a common tradition in all of Dragon Ball, not just GT. And from what I know Akira is the accredited author, so the assertion that he was strictly involved with character designs only (which is not backed up with evidence) is unlikely.

Firstly, the assertion that there are oodles of standing inconsistencies in the Dragon Ball canon is trotted out all the time, but aside from the TV specials and movies, I've never actually found an error I couldn't explain in-universe, with only one exception. (IN the anime during the tail-end of the Buu debacle, Gohan, Piccolo and a few others are depicted in several places at once. Seems more like an animation error to me than a writing error, but it counts.) Care to list a few that you're thinking of? I'll shoot down those I can off the top of my head, and maybe you'll be the one who finally manages to stump me. (For the love of God, don't try to dredge up the number of people in the Room of Spirit and Time. I'm sick of explaining that one over and over again.)

Most of the nonsense happenings of Dragon Ball aren't actually continuity errors, but just really dumb decisions characters make (or forget to make, in some cases), or the audience assuming (foolishly) that characters can't/don't lie or make mistakes.

Secondly, copyright law with respect to authors and their delineated creations (ie, characters, worlds, fictional technology, etc.) is much stronger and stranger (in spirit- I'm not as well versed on the letter of the law) in Japan than in the US, Canada and much of Europe. Basically, he has to be credited as they are still using his world/universe and his characters, and in some way he'd have to approve GT legally, if not canonically. Authors there retain full control over their characters and such-- which by the way makes most parodies and fan-fictions of anime and manga technically illegal, but not worth the cost of enforcement. (There's not quite an equivalent to fair-use exceptions in Japan, either.)

If it's hurting your head to think of this, consider that Michael Crichton is spared a brief nod in the credits of Jurassic Park 3, even though he only wrote the two books and co-wrote the first film, and the second and third films bear little to no resemblance to either of his books. Now, here, it's partly a licensing deal and an ethical avoidance of plagiarism, but there are stronger legal devices in Japan to force the same sort of credits. Toriyama did not write GT, but did write the source material (the Dragon Ball manga) and did allow TOEI to produce GT.

Finally, it you go look at the movies- most of which he had nothing to do with, beyond the existing universe and characters- you'll find that Toriyama is credited there, too, as the original author.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

GT is canon within the anime-based continuity, but is not a canon material within the manga-based continuity. Though the anime is based upon manga, the two continuities are separate and distinct from one another.

[Kaitou+]

God, I'd hate to see you guys try to figure out the Halo or- God help us!- the Star Wars canon and continuity hierarchies.

Firstly, the assertion that there are oodles of standing inconsistencies in the Dragon Ball canon is trotted out all the time, but aside from the TV specials and movies, I've never actually found an error I couldn't explain in-universe. Care to list a few that you're thinking of? I'll shoot down those I can off the top of my head, and maybe you'll manage to stump me. (For the love of God, don't try to dredge up the number of people in the Room of Spirit and Time. I'm sick of explaining that one over and over again.)

Most of the nonsense happenings of Dragon Ball aren't actually continuity errors, but just really dumb decisions characters make (or forget to make, in some cases).

Secondly, copyright law with respect to authors and their delineated creations (ie, characters, worlds, fictional technology, etc.) is much stronger and stranger (in spirit- I'm not as well versed on the letter of the law) in Japan than in the US, Canada and much of Europe. Basically, he has to be credited as they are still using his world/universe and his characters, and in some way he'd have to approve GT legally, if not canonically. Authors there retain full control over their characters and such-- which by the way makes most parodies and fan-fictions of anime and manga technically illegal, but not worth the cost of enforcement. (There's not quite an equivalent to fair-use exceptions in Japan, either.)

If it's hurting your head to think of this, consider that Michael Crichton is spared a brief nod in the credits of Jurassic Park 3, even though he only wrote the two books and the first film, and the second and third films bear little to no resemblance to either of his books. Now, here, it's partly a licensing deal and an ethical avoidance of plagiarism, but there are stronger legal devices in Japan to force the same sort of credits. Toriyama did not write GT, but did write the source material (the Dragon Ball manga) and did allow TOEI to produce GT.

Finally, it you go look at the movies- most of which he had nothing to do with, beyond the existing universe and characters- you'll find that Toriyama is credited there, too, as the original author.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

GT is canon within the anime-based continuity, but is not a canon material within the manga-based continuity. Though the anime is based upon manga, the two continuities are separate and distinct from one another.

This is what I told him.

[TheAsterisk!]

@Kaitou+ : Oh, I know, I just find my consolidated walls-o-text soothing.

Also, my digressive post title has once again managed to survive to the next generation, like an inexplicable genetic artifact.

[Volta]

@TheAsterisk! @Craddle

You both basically said what I initially said with just more detail. I know Akira Toriyama is the author of GT. To say that he didn't write GT, well there is not enough proof to suggest that. I am going to assume an author wrote his own story regardless of what you want to believe.

And I know GT isn't canon with the manga, there ISN'T a manga. It is canon with the anime though.

[TheAsterisk!]

No, he didn't write GT. That is precisely why there is no manga- Toriyama wrote/drew the manga. Strictly speaking, he didn't write the story for the DB/DBZ chunks of the anime either, but they were adaptations (by TOEI, not him) of his work.

If you don't understand this, then I can't help but wonder if you have a firm grasp of (1) the concept of adaptation and derivation of fictional works or (2) the English language.

You are wrong- factually incorrect- to say that Toriyama wrote GT.



God, I hope you're a troll.

[Kaitou+]

No, he didn't write GT. That is precisely why there is no manga- Toriyama wrote/drew the manga. Strictly speaking, he didn't write the story for the DB/DBZ chunks of the anime either, but they were adaptations (by TOEI, not him) of his work.

If you don't understand this, then I can't help but wonder if you have a firm grasp of (1) the concept of adaptation and derivation of fictional works or (2) the English language.

You are wrong- factually incorrect- to say that Toriyama wrote GT.



God, I hope you're a troll.

This.

If he considers Toriyama the author just because he was involved with the design, then might as well call Dragon Quest and Chrono Trigger both DB-canon.

[CapnJack]

I believe FUNImation's crediting to Toriyama as GT's author in that section of the credits is nothing more than a error or misunderstood misprint that FUNI was too late to edit. Ive known about GT long before Z finished its first run in the US. Even then it was stated everywhere that TOEI wrote the story with Toriyama's authorization and supervision.

I missed the first time it aired on Cartoon Network; I'm not missing it this time. I personally would like to consider it canon.

And speaking of the movies not being canon, one could say Wrath of the Dragon could be considered legit since it takes place after Buu's death but before the World Tournament years later. It would cover how Trunk's got his weapon and therefore linking Z and GT fairly.

[Volta]

If the credits say he's the author of GT, he's the author of GT, you can't argue otherwise, and if you do, the evidence is against you. Plain and simple.

[Kaitou+]

If the credits say he's the author of GT, he's the author of GT, you can't argue otherwise, and if you do, the evidence is against you. Plain and simple.

>implying FUNImation is the perfect being and never made mistakes before.
lmao

Really, I own a lot of their previous DVD sets and when I put subtitles, I can find a lot of typos.

Also, post the credits from the Japanese version and shows us where it says 'Akira Toriyama", because the real endings it what it matters, not the ending theme of the dubbed version.

[Volta]

>implying FUNImation is the perfect being and never made mistakes before.
lmao

Really, I own a lot of their previous DVD sets and when I put subtitles, I can find a lot of typos.

Also, post the credits from the Japanese version and shows us where it says 'Akira Toriyama", because the real endings it what it matters, not the ending theme of the dubbed version.

From earlier in this thread



原 作 / Original Author
鳥山　明 / Toriyama Akira

[Kaitou+]

From earlier in this thread

Attachment 56240

原 作 / Original Author
鳥山　明 / Toriyama Akira

Yeah.

It's what I said before and what the @TheAsterisk! told you as well.

Imagine that you actually wrote Dragonball it wouldn't be right for Toei to claim Dragonball GT when it's not really theirs regardless of the story, because it's still yours, from Goku to Dragonballs to the Senzu Beans, all yours regardless if Toei wrote GT.

it's not matter of being right or wrong, it's simply the law. They would have to credit you for your work.

[Volta]

Yeah.

It's what I said before and what the @the Asterisk told you as well.

Imagine that you actually wrote Dragonball it wouldn't be right for Toei to claim Dragonball GT when it's not really theirs regardless of the story, because it's still yours, from Goku to Dragonballs to the Senzu Beans, all yours regardless if Toei wrote GT.

You believe whatever you want to believe outside of the proof. The proof, however, says that Akira Toriyama is the author of GT. Anything less is speculation and opinion.

[Kaitou+]

You believe whatever you want to believe outside of the proof. The proof, however, says that Akira Toriyama is the author of GT. Anything less is speculation and opinion.

Nah, you're simply trollin; really.

Three people saying the same thing can't be wrong.

Good day, sir.

[Volta]

Nah, you're simply trollin; really.

Three people saying the same thing can't be wrong.

Good day, sir.

Yes, that's very accurate logic.

That's like three people trying to convince another person that an apple is an orange.

"Just because there is only one of me, doesn't mean that apple is an orange."

"Sorry 3>1. Your argument is invalid."

One can be right in the midst of billions. Quantity is not relevant to correctness.

[Inactive User Account]

I have to download dbz.

Meh, I do a whole lot, so a minute or two of downloading would all but prove my laziness. XD

My Wi-Fi, it's gone out...

[CapnJack]

Here's a random and wild idea off the top of my head. Why not just email FUNImation, specifically the production department, and ask about the accuracy of their credits? And please go into detail how its display is being interpreted. Simple as that.

[Inactive User Account]

I have to download dbz.

Hope you download some quality versions of episodes, 'cause *soft elbow nudge* we all know that "personal uploading" sites like Dailymotion and Youtube are home to utterly *cxrxaxpxtxaxsxtxixc* uploads from certain users. *Country lips while saddled up* I wouldn't steer ya' wroooong, partner... ;o


My Wi-Fi, it's gone out...