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Thread: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    ever heard the term "history is written by the winners"?
    I've heard of the term. However, I am much more interested in the truth than the twist created by the majority. The majority of people think that the Christmas tree is a Christian symbol, but it isn't. The majority of people think that President Kennedy called himself a jelly doughnut in front of a bunch of Germans, even though he didn't. The majority of people think that the Pilgrims had the first Thanksgiving, even though they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    as i stated earlier, we are talking about america atm. i do understand that from nation to nation meanings change. i've been talking about how america as a nation looks at stuff.
    That opinion doesn't even make sense because the last few symbols I mentioned (the swastika and the white Capirote hat) were symbols that were stolen and used in other places, including here, but your opinion on their meaning didn't change. How can you understand that meanings can change nation to nation but INSIST that the Capirote hat is racist and nothing else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    true, very true.
    however what a small group of people "think" a symbol means doesn't matter. the general public decides in the real world.
    that's the point i'm tryying to make!
    I know the point you are trying to make. Your point is just ignorant, close-minded, and just short of offensive.

    Again, the day that an outside group can definitively decide for another group what a symbol means to them and others is probably the day when I shoot myself. You can make an opinion, but outsiders don't get to change the definition. It doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way. So a bunch of Satanists come along and because of them, the symbol for Pagans changes? A bunch of Nazis come along and because of them, the meaning behind the swastika, a cross cultural symbol that's been around for centuries, changes? A flag that meant nothing more than pride in coming from an area gets its meaning changed because of the ignorant beliefs of a bunch of idiotic racists?

    And refusing to look past all of the hate and the ignorance that corrupted those symbols in order to find and embrace the truth behind them is living in the "real world"? So am I and others living in a fantasy world because we cracked open some history books and decided not to live in ignorance like everybody else?
    This is my war face.

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  2. #77
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    I have the Raynor's Raiders and Imperium Flag hanged inside my room that why the a whole bunch of Zergies, Dominion Bark Dogs and Chaos Freaks always comes to my home trying to bite my @s$.......

    Kidding aside

    It doesn't really bother me also like Miss Seung-li said way-way back there coz maybe I'm Asian too + I don't have any connection what so ever from the states....( though my cat from there I'll ask his opinion about this later )

    But as far as I know there is no such Anti-Confederate Flag Law or Anti-Any Flag Law that says that "Hey you can't hang that flag!!".... Hey if I go to the states and wave my flags there people won't start chasing me with knifes and bats and start shooting me ..... right?.... He didn't shoot or hurt anyone just so he can hang that flag right??? if so I don't see anything wrong....and the school let him hanged the flag again when they found out his reason at what it stands for on why he hanged it..... Yeah some people won't accept other people ideals and belief it's the human nature...... criticizing other people without knowing their reasons and criticizing other people just so they can join-in into the fuzz..... like I said Human Nature...... ( Man It's like am starting to sound like a psychologist or something )

    It doesn't really matter on how "other" people see it... It's all about why and for what purpose "you" did it...... and in the end of the day the question is which flag do you really hold allegiance to......
    Last edited by sabishii1/2; 12-14-2011 at 03:12 AM.

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    I've heard of the term. However, I am much more interested in the truth than the twist created by the majority.
    i am to.
    please keep in mind i'm just telling it like it is irl, not how i wish things were.
    i'm just a realist.

    The majority of people think that the Christmas tree is a Christian symbol, but it isn't. The majority of people think that President Kennedy called himself a jelly doughnut in front of a bunch of Germans, even though he didn't. The majority of people think that the Pilgrims had the first Thanksgiving, even though they didn't.
    yup, you are correct on all accounts, it's sad that the world works that way, but it does.

    That opinion doesn't even make sense because the last few symbols I mentioned (the swastika and the white Capirote hat) were symbols that were stolen and used in other places, including here, but your opinion on their meaning didn't change. How can you understand that meanings can change nation to nation but INSIST that the Capirote hat is racist and nothing else?
    when they were used here, they then developed a meaning here. they now hold a certain meaning here.
    they might have a different meaning somewhere else, but here they hold a particular meaning.

    I know the point you are trying to make. Your point is just ignorant, close-minded, and just short of offensive.
    no, it's simply real. it's how things work irl.
    i'm not saying it's good or right......i'm just saying it's how it is.
    i'm just being a realist, you are being an idealist.

    again, the day that an outside group can definitively decide for another group what a symbol means to them and others is probably the day when I shoot myself. You can make an opinion, but outsiders don't get to change the definition. It doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way.
    i agree, it's shouldn't work that way.....doesn't change the fact that it does.

    So a bunch of Satanists come along and because of them, the symbol for Pagans changes? A bunch of Nazis come along and because of them, the meaning behind the swastika, a cross cultural symbol that's been around for centuries, changes? A flag that meant nothing more than pride in coming from an area gets its meaning changed because of the ignorant beliefs of a bunch of idiotic racists?
    yup.
    do most americans now think your pagan symbol is satanic?? yes
    do most americans think the swastika is a symbol only used by the nazis?? yes
    do most americans think the confederate flag is a symbol of racism?? yes

    like i said, it's just how the world works. please keep in mind im NOT advocating the world should work this way. i'm just saying it does

    And refusing to look past all of the hate and the ignorance that corrupted those symbols in order to find and embrace the truth behind them is living in the "real world"? So am I and others living in a fantasy world because we cracked open some history books and decided not to live in ignorance like everybody else?
    i wouldn't go as far to say you live in a fantasy world, you are simply being idealistic. nothing wrong with that.
    however until you and others manage to change the system........sady you are just a thinker living in a world overrun with non-thinkers. you are the minority, so you then become the outcast, and have very little power.
    there is power in numbers, and you are outnumbered.

    *edit*

    just wanted to say there are things that i don't like too.
    like the fact that americans practicaly exterminated an entire race to be where we are now. do most americans choose to be ignorant and overlook this??? yes
    do most americans see native americans as "foreigners"?? yes. is it wrong?? yes.
    doesn't change that fact that thats how it works.


    @blueangel

    i apologize if you think i'm trying to insult the south in some way, because im not.
    in fact, i could really care less if people want to wave the flag around or not.
    the only real thing i'm trying to say, is that the majority of america sees the confederate flag as a symbol of racism, not southern pride.

    @Aeschylus

    39>11

    @Wio

    who said anything about Southerners being stupid and racist???
    i'm just talking about the people who wave around the confederate flag.
    isn't it a little ignorant of you to assume that ALL southerners have confederate flags...........or is that just what YOU have been taught in school???
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 12-14-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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  4. #79
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    What, no rebuttal for me? Now I feel slighted, I even dug up my Confederate Flag belt buckle and Confederate Flag bandana for this.
    -Pouts.-
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 12-14-2011 at 12:19 PM.
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  5. #80
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    @Aeschylus

    39>11
    What's your point. Thirty-nine people might think a symbol means something, but that does not mean that symbols means what they think it means when it is presented by the other eleven. Again, this is not a difficult concept.

  6. #81
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    like i said, it's just how the world works. please keep in mind im NOT advocating the world should work this way. i'm just saying it does
    You are also advocating that the people who are having their symbols corrupted and their ideals stumped on should just lie back and take it. And this opinion is what's pissing me off.

    Realism doesn't just mean that you accept the way that the world works. It also means that you seek the truth. I am very much aware that "the majority" (whatever the hell that means to you) can influence what others think. However, I don't have to accept it as truth just because others say that it is.

    While I would like for others to understand that the swastika or the Confederate flag isn't just racist, that is not what I am talking about (and I don't think that I have ever said that). I am talking about your opinion that others should just accept the fact that their symbols have been changed by society because of the actions of some other group and that their opinions are suddenly obsolete because of that. Sure, it would be nice if people didn't think that I was a Devil-worshiper because of my pentagram, but that's not what I'm talking about. The very notion that just because the majority of society thinks that the pentagram is a Satanic symbol simply they said so, that the Pagan meaning is no longer valid (not even to us) and I that should just accept this fact makes me want to punch a hole in a wall. I am aware of what society thinks and I am aware that I probably can't do anything about it, but I don't have to accept it. Society doesn't get to choose what symbols mean to Pagans; PAGANS DO.

    And society (especially outside groups) doesn't get to choose what the Confederate flag means to those who fly it. They can have an opinion, but they don't get to choose what that flag means for everybody, especially for those of us who choose to read our history books and become knowledgeable about our symbols instead of wallowing in the ignorance of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    39>11
    Nice try pal, but there are 16 states in the South, not 11. There are 11 states in "Dixieland", but there are 16 states in "the South" (please learn the difference quickly; do NOT assume that just because Kentucky isn't a Dixie state that you won't find the Confederate flag there).

    Of course, that doesn't prove your point. You don't have to live in the South to recognize the fact that the Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern pride (and you don't have to be Asian to know that the swastika isn't inherently racist and you don't have to be Pagan to know that the pentagram isn't inherently Satanic). To assume that ALL outsiders have the same opinion on the Confederate flag is pushing it a bit (give me some hard data, then we can talk; otherwise you're begging the question).
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-14-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Nice try pal, but there are 16 states in the South, not 11. There are 11 states in "Dixieland", but there are 16 states in "the South" (please learn the difference quickly; do NOT assume that just because Kentucky isn't a Dixie state that you won't find the Confederate flag there).
    Also there's many states not in the South that fly the flag freely. Most if not all are "Blue-Collar" states. I had to smack someone from Idaho over this. But most of the Mid-Western states also tend to side/align with the Southern way, I guess is a way of saying this.... It's complicated, alright. I probably didn't make myself clear enough, but whatever. I don't have to prove I'm Southern in an argument, unless you ask about my accent, I'm from Alabama. There's no argument about Alabamians being Southern.
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    test

    *edit*
    odd, website won't let me cut and paste a response atm....hmmm.
    says it needs to be more than 3 characters....even though it is *shrug*

    anyways, i'm gonna call it quits. cause i don't feel like doing all that typing over again, and this is going nowhere.
    if you all want to believe that majority of people in the U.S. think the confederate flag is simply a symbol of southern pride......then belive what you want.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 12-14-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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  9. #84
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Man that's good irony.
    If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.

  10. #85
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    Default Re: Black Student Hangs Confederate Flag in Room

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    if you all want to believe that majority of people in the U.S. think the confederate flag is simply a symbol of southern pride......then belive what you want.
    That wasn't even the point. Shows how much you pay attention.

    We were talking about how most of the South (especially the Dixie states) thinks that the Confederate flag is a symbol of pride. This can be evidenced by the sheer prominence of the flag in these states (Mississippi even makes a point of incorporating the symbol into its own flag). The only time that we were talking about the entire country as a whole was because you were saying that the majority of the country believes that the flag is racist. You have absolutely no prove of that. The only "evidence" that you have is an opinion and the fact that there are less Southern states than the rest of the country (which goes without saying). If you think that the flag's racist, well that's your opinion (of course, opinion and fact are two different things).

    However, you can't expect me and everyone else to accept your opinion at face value, especially when you are talking about the opinions of the ENTIRE country. Telling me about the "majority" opinion without giving me some proof (any proof) of that is called begging the question (as in, I'm supposed to accept your point because you say its true).

    Of course, how the "majority" of the country feels about the flag is rather irrelevant because the flag is NOT an inherent symbol of racism. Some people certainly use it for that purpose (its the reason why my feelings for it are rather negative), but they merely corrupted a symbol that meant Southern pride. And as far as most Southerners are concerned, that original meaning of Southern pride is the one that matters. How everyone else feels about the symbol is really up to them. However, the history of the flag is much more important than ignorance based on the actions of some hate group.

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