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Thread: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

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    Default 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    It's been 70 years since one of the greatest attacks on American soil. And now, the biggest reminder is that the survivors are dwindling fast. It just may be the last time there's a large gathering of survivors for an anniversity.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


  2. 12-07-2011 06:38 PM
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a little girl View Post
    Those japs should have nuked your women and children too, 70 years ago. You had it coming! And nothing of value was lost that day.


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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a little girl View Post
    Those japs should have nuked your women and children too, 70 years ago. You had it coming! And nothing of value was lost that day.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Get your disrespectful prick @ss out of here, McDoom. I don't care if you're trolling, but saying ignorant crap like that pisses me off. Are you really that pathetic that you have to talk smack about hundreds of people that were killed 70 years ago? I tend to tolerate your posts since yes, they occasionally make me chuckle, but this is just wrong. I refuse to just keep silent when someone so blatantly disrespects the people who deserve it the least. I am very open-minded and I rarely feel offended, but are you freaking kidding me? Get off my internet, dumb@ss..

    And, you should get your facts straight; America was the one with the nuclear weapons, not Japan, lawl.

    I don't care if I get a warning or infraction for this. I don't care if people think I'm overreacting to this. You need to shut the hell up and grow a goddamn conscience. No one wants to hear your bullshit.

    /feel free to edit or delete, mods. I'm done.
    Last edited by RyuTama; 12-07-2011 at 07:11 PM.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Well, If you feel nothing of value was lost that day, on either side. Talk to any of the survivors of Pearl Harbor, and other survivors of WWII. I'm sure they'll say different. And if you feel the lost of many lives, both Japanese and American isn't anything of value, than consider that of which did come with a pricetag. All the bombs, torpedoes, ships, aircraft, submarines, shells, and bullets expended that day. The damages and resources used alone total into millions of dollars. And that is worth a lot even by today's standards.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    I probably have a different outlook on the situation that most. Make no confusion. I am an American though I believe it is even more important that I am a citzen of the world. Having said that I can go on to say that I have seen both sides of the story. As an American I have heard repeatedly time and time again about the travesties unleashed upon Pearl Harbor December 7th 1941. This was indeed a monumental loss for this country. Now I too have traveled the Pacific to see the damage unleashed upon Japan by our fighting force. I've traveled to Okinawa and been in the caves the Japanese soldiers hid from the US Marine in (some still with blood splattered on the wall) Spoke with a survivor of the Okinawa battles (in her 80's) and heard about the loss of her daughter while running around the island in attempts to hide from the Americans. I've been to Nagasaki and stood at the hypocenter (where the second bomb was dropped) Went through the entire museum dedicated to this event as one of eleven Americans and was not shown any ill will from any of the adults or school children also in attendance. We had a private meeting with a female survivor whom was saved thanks to Dr. Nagai (famous for his research into preventing the ailments resulting from nuclear radiation). I can saw say that all twelve of us left with our hearts in our hands and tears in our eyes. It's truely a life changing perspective. I am sorry for the loss of innocent lives of soldiers and civilians on both sides of the Pacific. I end this post with my favorite quote about dictators from Charlie Chaplin (of all people xD) in the Great Dictator


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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by battousai_ryuu View Post
    I probably have a different outlook on the situation that most. Make no confusion. I am an American though I believe it is even more important that I am a citzen of the world. Having said that I can go on to say that I have seen both sides of the story. As an American I have heard repeatedly time and time again about the travesties unleashed upon Pearl Harbor December 7th 1941. This was indeed a monumental loss for this country. Now I too have traveled the Pacific to see the damage unleashed upon Japan by our fighting force. I've traveled to Okinawa and been in the caves the Japanese soldiers hid from the US Marine in (some still with blood splattered on the wall) Spoke with a survivor of the Okinawa battles (in her 80's) and heard about the loss of her daughter while running around the island in attempts to hide from the Americans. I've been to Nagasaki and stood at the hypocenter (where the second bomb was dropped) Went through the entire museum dedicated to this event as one of eleven Americans and was not shown any ill will from any of the adults or school children also in attendance. We had a private meeting with a female survivor whom was saved thanks to Dr. Nagai (famous for his research into preventing the ailments resulting from nuclear radiation). I can saw say that all twelve of us left with our hearts in our hands and tears in our eyes. It's truely a life changing perspective. I am sorry for the loss of innocent lives of soldiers and civilians on both sides of the Pacific. I end this post with my favorite quote about dictators from Charlie Chaplin (of all people xD) in the Great Dictator
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    It seems people keep forgetting that the U.S. was basically dragged into WWII by the Japanese. Had they (JP military) re-thought their strategy, by not bombing Pearl Harbor, who's to say how the world would be today? It is sad that so many soldiers, and civilians lost their lives during that time and I hope and pray that they are resting in peace. The only factor in this equation is what was done, HAD to be done. We showed the world that we were better in morality, and conscious by assisting those that we were at war with to re-build. No other country has ever had that mentality...other than the Romans (but that's for a different time).

    Battousai-ryuu - those are some gut wrenching photos (in a very sad way). I don't think I could have held it together if I saw that either.
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    In that moment of history, the Japanese did so much to my family and if they reached my grandparents on my mom's side, she wouldn't exist and neither would I. So I know the valuable thing for me I could of lost, I take things like this real seriously because it made a deal for my own family. Both of my family suffered but most in my mom's side. My dad's uncles were in the Baatan Death March, one was executed the other one ran away surprisingly. But even though, it could of been my grandfather. Unfortunately, most family members of mine can't forgive them at all. And I am a forgiver, however, I don't tolerate disrespect for those who suffer tragedies. Really. I don't think it's cool at all.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    It seems people keep forgetting that the U.S. was basically dragged into WWII by the Japanese. Had they (JP military) re-thought their strategy, by not bombing Pearl Harbor, who's to say how the world would be today? It is sad that so many soldiers, and civilians lost their lives during that time and I hope and pray that they are resting in peace. The only factor in this equation is what was done, HAD to be done. We showed the world that we were better in morality, and conscious by assisting those that we were at war with to re-build. No other country has ever had that mentality...other than the Romans (but that's for a different time).

    Battousai-ryuu - those are some gut wrenching photos (in a very sad way). I don't think I could have held it together if I saw that either.
    Im not surprised that you as an american wrote something like that. I don't mean to be disrecpetful but you should read for example "The decision to use the atomic bomb, and the architecture of an American myth" by Gar Alperovitz and also remember that what you americans read and learn in school is different from what other countries learns. For example it was a suddgestion that one bomb should be dropped on a iceland in japan were no one lived infront of invited military and political people from japan who would stand on another iceland nearby to scare the japanese people to surrender themselfes, but that suddgestion was declined. Also the japanese military leaders already in july 1944 tried to finds way to surrender without loosing "their faces". So Japan was pretty much already defeated.


    But that/this is another discussion so I'll leave that be for now. Don't want to be to disrecpetful and Im sorry if I already have been that.


    -------------------------

    I can't belive that it's 70 years ago. Somehow it feels like the war was such a long time ago, but thinking about it 70 years are really nothing. I hope we won't have any war like that ever again, wars in general is just... I don't know. Loss to both sides. No one is winning on it.
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    It's long overdue we let history be history. Reveling in crap that went down 70+ years ago is unhealthy.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    It's long overdue we let history be history. Reveling in crap that went down 70+ years ago is unhealthy.
    Such a significant point in history deserves recognition. It's not so much "reveling" as it is "acknowledging" and "respecting". I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who is familiar with the quote,

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Repeating past mistakes and deciding to ignore history by saying "what's done is done" is what's unhealthy, if you want my opinion. Certainly, one shouldn't obsess over it, but acknowledging sacrifice is hardly something I would call "unhealthy".

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    (by Eris)It's long overdue we let history be history. Reveling in crap that went down 70+ years ago is unhealthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    Such a significant point in history deserves recognition. It's not so much "reveling" as it is "acknowledging" and "respecting". I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who is familiar with the quote,

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Repeating past mistakes and deciding to ignore history by saying "what's done is done" is what's unhealthy, if you want my opinion. Certainly, one shouldn't obsess over it, but acknowledging sacrifice is hardly something I would call "unhealthy".
    I agree with RyuTama but it is not all bad there is also joy (well for my Family) my second cousin was born on Dec. 7th and there is nothing sad about that. i myself was born on VE-day or veterans day so i have a lot of respect for the men and women who fight for our country (America since i don't share it with others in other countries) filling times of sadness with joy can take some pain away i don't hate the Japanese for what they did (although getting the declaration of war on time would have been nice.......) both sides suffered men in the U.S.S. Arizona drowned in a upside-down ship for their country. Japanese men committed suicide in Iwo Jima People should really watch Clint Eastwood's moves about WWII they are could and can make you cry they show both sides of the war in Letters to Iwo Jima (Japan)and Flag of our Fathers (America)
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    Such a significant point in history deserves recognition. It's not so much "reveling" as it is "acknowledging" and "respecting". I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who is familiar with the quote,
    Blaharg blahey about remembering history
    Repeating past mistakes and deciding to ignore history by saying "what's done is done" is what's unhealthy, if you want my opinion.
    And why do you not also pay your respects to WWI? It's only another 20 years earlier. What about the Napoleonic wars? Surely there are lessons to be learned there. Yet nobody seems to commemorate them.

    Certainly, one shouldn't obsess over it, but acknowledging sacrifice is hardly something I would call "unhealthy".
    Sacrifice? A bunch of people were killed in an air raid. They had no idea what they were getting into, as the US wasn't really at war at the time. I fail to see how this is sacrifice.

    I say if you can't personally remember anyone who died in a disaster, you have no business commemorating it.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Thank you for sharing such info, Everyone.

    As for looking how the World Community views/viewed the drop of the Atomic Bomb, I'm sure it is a very intellectual read and research to study upon. But the discussion is not about the Atomic Bomb, it's about the event that in some peoples eyes may have forced the change from just an iceland near Japan to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Granted they are more than just towns, Hiroshima was a very large shipping depot for the Japanese Military, and Nagasaki was a major ship building port for the Japanese Navy. But all the same, it's about Pearl Harbor; even though it's tough to talk about the Attack on Pearl Harbor without mentioning Little Boy and Fat Man.

    As for it being History, yes it is History. Should we let it die in the wake of it's survivors passing? I think not. Should we get up in arms over it and attack Japan, or Japanese people (including Americans with Japanese heritage), again because of it? Absolutely not. We've all suffered enough pain an heartache to let it go. But letting the past be the past and remembering the single event that plunged the U.S. into WWII are two different things. And I'm not going to use the cliche line "Those that do not know History are doomed to repeat it.", but I will say that I hope with the proper knowledge of the past, may it spark a flame in our present hearts and minds to forge a better future for all. And I do try to remember all of other wars as well (like the 150th anniversity of the American Civil War), though I'm not going to lie. Sometimes it's gets very taxing and tedious in simply remembering all the dates, there's just so many wars. There's roughly 14 of them that the U.S. was apart of, and only 4 of them were on American soil.

    -Side Note.- I saw on NBC Nightly News that one of the survivors that had passed had his family scuba dive and placed his ashes into the USS Utah, I think it was. Sorry if no one cares, but I thought it was pretty cool for the man that passed and the family to honor that wish on Dec. 7th of all days.
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 12-08-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    And why do you not also pay your respects to WWI? It's only another 20 years earlier. What about the Napoleonic wars? Surely there are lessons to be learned there. Yet nobody seems to commemorate them.
    Who ever said I didn't? This is a thread concerning Pearl Harbor; not WWI or the Napoleonic wars. Just because I'm sharing my thoughts on Pearl Harbor alone does not mean I'm ignoring the others, and it doesn't mean I consider them any less significant. They are indeed noteworthy, and I pay my respects whenever the opportunity arises, I assure you. And if you acknowledge that there are lessons to be learned in these events, then why did you suggest we put the past behind us in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Sacrifice? A bunch of people were killed in an air raid. They had no idea what they were getting into, as the US wasn't really at war at the time. I fail to see how this is sacrifice.
    It was during WWII, and although America wasn't quite as involved with the war as other countries, as a world superpower, I'm pretty sure such an attack would have been far from considered impossible. The countries with the most power are often dragged into conflicts, and Pearl Harbor is a prime example. True, perhaps "sacrifice" was the incorrect term for me to use, but it doesn't change the fact that the event changed America, and I believe its victims, as well as the witnesses and their families, deserve the utmost respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    I say if you can't personally remember anyone who died in a disaster, you have no business commemorating it.
    This wasn't a natural disaster or something that was unprecedented. This was war. It was intentional and it was caused by man. Saying that we have no business commemorating it simply because we weren't there personally is foolhardy. As a matter of fact, I highly doubt that I'm the only one who knew someone involved. I respect him and his account of the tragedy, as well as the disaster itself. I'm not the most political or historical person, but I know when something drastically affects my country and those around me, and I will not just ignore it.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Im not surprised that you as an american wrote something like that. I don't mean to be disrecpetful but you should read for example "The decision to use the atomic bomb, and the architecture of an American myth" by Gar Alperovitz and also remember that what you americans read and learn in school is different from what other countries learns. For example it was a suddgestion that one bomb should be dropped on a iceland in japan were no one lived infront of invited military and political people from japan who would stand on another iceland nearby to scare the japanese people to surrender themselfes, but that suddgestion was declined. Also the japanese military leaders already in july 1944 tried to finds way to surrender without loosing "their faces". So Japan was pretty much already defeated.


    But that/this is another discussion so I'll leave that be for now. Don't want to be to disrecpetful and Im sorry if I already have been that.


    -------------------------

    I can't belive that it's 70 years ago. Somehow it feels like the war was such a long time ago, but thinking about it 70 years are really nothing. I hope we won't have any war like that ever again, wars in general is just... I don't know. Loss to both sides. No one is winning on it.
    Of course cause we that being the US is always rewriting history to favor us...we're the bad guys. Just stop and think for a moment, ha we not used them to end the war, Russia would have used theirs instead. And what does me being an American have to with it...I find that very offensive that you're chastizing me on day of American rememberence. Did we HAVE to use the bomb, no...but it was needed to show that
    the war was over. We gave them 2 opportunities to surrender...by refusing a show of arms was necessary. If anything the US had the world conqured.

    But the rest of the world is right. America is bad...we deserved everything we got handed to us. Vietnam, Korea, 9/11, that was all a justified butt kicking to the US right..because when there's trouble somewhere in the world we should just mind our own bidniz and let Sweden handle it.

    This is a part of my countries history...and being that of a military family holds a big part of it. Yes I take exceptional offense to this.
    Last edited by solidarmor; 12-08-2011 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    Who ever said I didn't? This is a thread concerning Pearl Harbor; not WWI or the Napoleonic wars. Just because I'm sharing my thoughts on Pearl Harbor alone does not mean I'm ignoring the others, and it doesn't mean I consider them any less significant. They are indeed noteworthy, and I pay my respects whenever the opportunity arises, I assure you. And if you acknowledge that there are lessons to be learned in these events, then why did you suggest we put the past behind us in the first place?
    Because these memorials are not about learning the lessons of war. They are about particular events, grabbed out of context and propped up as symbols. Not about cause and effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    It was during WWII, and although America wasn't quite as involved with the war as other countries, as a world superpower, I'm pretty sure such an attack would have been far from considered impossible. The countries with the most power are often dragged into conflicts, and Pearl Harbor is a prime example. True, perhaps "sacrifice" was the incorrect term for me to use, but it doesn't change the fact that the event changed America, and I believe its victims, as well as the witnesses and their families, deserve the utmost respect.
    But almost everyone involved is dead. Dead people don't care about respect. And those who are still alive have been bathed in respect for 70 years. I don't know if any action is worthy of that much respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    This wasn't a natural disaster or something that was unprecedented. This was war. It was intentional and it was caused by man. Saying that we have no business commemorating it simply because we weren't there personally is foolhardy. As a matter of fact, I highly doubt that I'm the only one who knew someone involved. I respect him and his account of the tragedy, as well as the disaster itself. I'm not the most political or historical person, but I know when something drastically affects my country and those around me, and I will not just ignore it.
    Those who intended and caused it are dead, and so is their ideology. Pearl Harbor is no longer relevant. Or at least, it shouldn't be.

  29. #20
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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    Of course cause we that being the US is always rewriting history to favor us...we're the bad guys. Just stop and think for a moment, ha we not used them to end the war, Russia would have used theirs instead. And does me being an American have to with it...I find that very offensive that you're chastizing me on day of American rememberence. Did we HAVE to use the bomb, no...but it was needed to show that
    the war was over. We gave them 2 opportunities to surrender...by refusing a show of arms was necessary. If anything the US had the world conqured.

    But the rest of the world is right. America is bad...we deserved everything we got handed to us. Vietnam, Korea, 9/11, that was all a justified butt kicking to the US right..because when there's trouble somewhere in the world we should just mind our own bidniz and let Sweden handle it.

    This is a part of my countries history...and being that of a military family holds a big part of it. Yes I take exceptional offense to this.

    I have never said that the americans are always the bad guys. Actually, as far as I know it as an outsider of America, the most of the world don't hate "you" - its just what you belive.

    All I said is that you havn't learned everything in school, and that some parts of the history hasn't been teached out to you. But it's not surprising, practically all countires do that to favor history into their advantage. I havn't done anything except telling you that all what you learn in school, isn't true and that some parts are left out and that some parts gets a certain extra "sparkel" to them to make them/the country in question look better. Please - don't take it so personal. Practically all countries do exactly the same.

    Sweden has tampered with our history aswell, the big reason we celibrate our nationalday is kind of false after all [so we teach our kids false things aswell, didn't learned the truth until some few years ago]. But if someone would tell me that I wouldn't take it personally - because it's true.
    Calm down soild, you know im not your enemy and Im not american so I have no idea what days you celibrate things on. How should I know that this day is extra special to you? Anyway, this is off topic.

    About your comment about Russia: read the book. It's mentioned there.
    Sol, vind och vatten är det bästa som jag vet
    men det är på dig jag tänker i hemlighet
    Sol, vind och vatten, höga berg och djupa hav
    Det, är mina drömmar vävda av

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    Default Re: 70th Anniversity of Pearl Harbor.

    And this is the misinformation that I wish to correct.
    First, there's many folks around the world that believe we are still the good guys. ie: Normandy, France. Though it is true we try to bury certain facts of history, first by lowering it's importance, then over lay other info on top of it until it's barely even a sentence in a History book. That's just a fact of life, and it's one that should be changed with the truth.

    Second, Yes 2 days prior to the Japanese surrendering Russia declared war on Japan (Aug. 8th), but no one had a working nuclear bomb other than the U.S. until after the end of WWII. And dropping two bombs didn't kill as many people as an out-right invasion would have.

    Thirdly, No one deserves the outright death of innocent people who are just trying to life their lives. As for the Sacrifice Ryu mentioned, It's a known thing going into the military, you're offering your life for whatever cause to fight for your country. And it's something that anyone in any military can, will, and does understand, regardless of branch and/or country.

    Fourthly, The Korean War was/is a Civil War, that the main backers and suppliers for both sides were playing Communism vs. Capitalism. Granted a lot of it may have stemed from Japan (Which controlled Korea at that time) surrendering to the U.S.. The Vietnam War was a Revolutionary/Civil War that was originally against the French, and we stepped in (because they were/are our allies), and eventually took over from the French. 9/11 happend because of a group of pissed off muslims about how the Western Civilizations (Namely America) were influencing their own people and culture. And rather make a stink about it that could turn into a Islamic version of The Fiddler on the Roof, they decided to commit terrorist acts. Now with everyone that complains about the U.S. being the World Police, since the days of Thedore Roosevelt, I've noticed that now and days that when something like Libya happens, nobody jumps in until America says what it'll do. Like in the case of Libya, France and Britain were the biggest pushers for helping the people, they even pulled the other countries (including the UAE) together to fight, but no one made a single attack until the U.S. said, "OK, we'll help out."
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