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  1. #1
    Junior Member dustin789 will become famous soon enough dustin789's Avatar
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    Default So

    Is it illegal to download anime?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: So

    : The Game. You just lost it. :



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  4. #3
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    Default Re: So

    Question officially answered.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: So

    Let me put it this way:

    Yes.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

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    Default Re: So

    Its not illegal unless someone catches you. That's my thinking, not that I download anime illegally anyways.


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  9. #6
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by dustin789 View Post
    Is it illegal to download anime?
    Let me thoroughly answer your question so that we can end this quickly without having a forum filled with people who have face palmed themselves to death.

    Because of the digital age that we live in, some anime distributors (such as Viz and Funimation) allow people to download anime onto their computers and "smart" devices (such as phones, iPods, tablets, etc). So you can certainly download anime after you've purchased it.

    However, my wolfy sense tells that this is not what you are talking about. You are probably wondering if using a torrent (or some other means) to download anime for free is illegal.

    And the answer is yes. The answer has always been yes and it will always be yes. Under no circumstances do anime fans have the "right" to receive anime for free. Unlicensed or licensed. Dubbed or subbed. New or old. It doesn't matter. You are not allowed to download anime for free. And people can be (and have been) arrested for it.

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  11. #7
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    Its not illegal unless someone catches you. That's my thinking, not that I download anime illegally anyways.
    No, it is still illegal. You just aren't punished or reprimanded until someone catches you. The point of some action being illegal is that when it becomes known that the action was taken, punishment or reprimand may be served without question as to whether or not it was deserved - provided it does not fall under the category of "cruel and unusual", of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90
    New or old.
    Actually, if the copyright on something has expired, it becomes public domain, and download it would be legal. The same if the company that owns the copyright is defunct, and the copyright is void.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 12-03-2011 at 03:28 PM.

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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    No, it is still illegal. You just aren't punished or reprimanded until someone catches you. The point of some action being illegal is that when it becomes known that the action was taken, punishment or reprimand may be served without question as to whether or not it was deserved - provided it does not fall under the category of "cruel and unusual", of course.
    This seems a little bit contradictory. If I steal without anyone noticing, then to be caught to be punished would never occur until whenever someone may catch me, what then? Enlighten so I may see your point. I'm not trying to be an eyesore either.


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  14. #9
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    Actually, if the copyright on something has expired, it becomes public domain, and download it would be legal. The same if the company that owns the copyright is defunct, and the copyright is void.
    That is both true and false.

    It is true that once a copyright expires, a work becomes public domain (actually, that's only slightly true, but I won't get into that). However, depending on the law, copyrights can be transferred over and over again, which is why Peter Pan, a character appearing in 1902, is STILL under copyright (and why the song "Happy Birthday to You" won't be in US public domain until 2030).

    In Japan, while a company can go defunct, the author can still hold the copyright to something. And this copyright exists for 70 years after publication or 38 years after the author's death if it was released prior to 1970. This means that the original Seven Samurai movie (released in 1954) is still protected under copyright law because Akira Kurosawa has only been dead for 13 years. Both a company AND the author could be nonexistent and a work could STILL be protected under copyright law.

    It should be noted, however, that there are not many defunct Japanese anime distributors to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    This seems a little bit contradictory. If I steal without anyone noticing, then to be caught to be punished would never occur until whenever someone may catch me, what then? Enlighten so I may see your point. I'm not trying to be an eyesore either.
    He means that something is illegal regardless of whether you are caught doing the action or not. Just because you weren't caught robbing a bank doesn't mean that robbing the bank was legal.

    Similarly, downloading anime for free is illegal, regardless of whether or not you are caught doing it. The only thing that happens when you are not caught is that you are not punished for doing it. It doesn't change the fact that it was illegal for you to do it in the first place. In fact, if you ARE caught, you can be punished without question.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-03-2011 at 04:35 PM.
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  16. #10
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    Default Re: So

    === Wolfgirl rendered my post obsolete. Move along. ===
    Last edited by marvel_phoenix; 12-03-2011 at 04:34 PM.
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  17. #11
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by marvel_phoenix View Post
    === Wolfgirl rendered my post obsolete. Move along. ===
    yeh, shes a smarty pants... lol
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  19. #12
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    He means that something is illegal regardless of whether you are caught doing the action or not. Just because you weren't caught robbing a bank doesn't mean that robbing the bank was legal.

    Similarly, downloading anime for free is illegal, regardless of whether or not you are caught doing it. The only thing that happens when you are not caught is that you are not punished for doing it. It doesn't change the fact that it was illegal for you to do it in the first place. In fact, if you ARE caught, you can be punished without question.
    Yet again wolfgirl always seems to make the best points against mine. Bravo in all seriousness. The only thing that I need to clarify is that if doing something illegal is also "wrong" to do. I've stated before that wrong or right is what society or a community deems unacceptable for advancement or tranquility or functioning in general. This is really my main concern towards the topic of downloading anime for free.


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  20. #13
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by aerophobia View Post
    yeh, shes a smarty pants... lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    Yet again wolfgirl always seems to make the best points against mine. Bravo in all seriousness. The only thing that I need to clarify is that if doing something illegal is also "wrong" to do. I've stated before that wrong or right is what society or a community deems unacceptable for advancement or tranquility or functioning in general. This is really my main concern towards the topic of downloading anime for free.
    Well, that opens up an entirely different can of worms altogether (actually several cans). What does "wrong" mean? Is it something that is against set laws or is it the opposite of what society deems "right" (or a combination of the two)? Does the end justify the means when a "wrong" is committed? If you do something with "good" intentions but something bad happens, is it still good, or did it become "wrong"?

    Some people contend that downloading anime illegally shows that an anime has popularity in other places, and thus gets the word out, increasing its chances of being distributed. However, at the exact same time, companies lose money because of the action, effectively leaving the argument rather moot (and most of the people who make this argument barely believe in it; 9 times out of 10, they are broke anime fans who don't want to pay money for something that they will only watch once). If distribution costs increase because Japanese companies aren't making money domestically, it really doesn't matter how many people know about the anime. It doesn't get distributed, or worse, foreign distributors are shut down (Geneon and ADV Films probably don't want to hear any "positive" side effects of downloading anime illegally).

    Because of this, while what is "right" and what is "wrong" is up to society, in OUR society (and every modern society that I can think of), stealing is both illegal and wrong. None of the supposed "benefits" really help anybody at the end of the day.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-03-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Because of this, while what is "right" and what is "wrong" is up to society, in OUR society (and every modern society that I can think of), stealing is both illegal and wrong. None of the supposed "benefits" really help anybody at the end of the day.
    I see. Stealing the anime, in most cases, could hurt that companies chances to make money which in the long run hurts the entire economy because products will not be distributed amongst people as much due to the lessen capability of fluctuating money within society. A weak economy therefore is not what a society deems acceptable and is wrong to have. So the actions, such as stealing anime, leads me to believe that they are wrong in most cases and illegal.


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    Default Re: So

    @wolfgirl90 Not everyone shares that opinion. There are other views on downloading media. I think Dan sums it up nicely.


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  25. #16
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    I see. Stealing the anime, in most cases, could hurt that companies chances to make money which in the long run hurts the entire economy because products will not be distributed amongst people as much due to the lessen capability of fluctuating money within society. A weak economy therefore is not what a society deems acceptable and is wrong to have. So the actions, such as stealing anime, leads me to believe that they are wrong in most cases and illegal.
    Ooooookay. I can't tell if you are being serious or if you are messing with me.

    In any case, interpreting that because society finds an action "wrong" that it must affect society as a whole on a grand scale (such as a slipping economy) is a fallacy in every sense of the word. I even went through the trouble of describing EXACTLY how downloading anime illegally hurts companies (by taking money away from them and the artist that made the anime in the first place) and the fans in the long run (by increasing distribution costs, which increases the cost of the rest of the process, e.g. anime DVDs).

    Hell, one of last things I said was that the action of stealing in general is what most societies viewed as wrong (to elaborate: stealing is seen as wrong, regardless of what is being stolen or what the resulting consequence of stealing is), so why you felt the need to place the action on some grandiose scale is honestly beyond me. If you were trying to reinterpret it or make a joke about it, I didn't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    @wolfgirl90 Not everyone shares that opinion. There are other views on downloading media. I think Dan sums it up nicely.
    Well, yeah. I'm kinda aware that not everyone shares my opinion, what with people downloading anime illegally and all.

    Of course, Dan's opinion causes me to go right back to what I and Gjallarhorn were saying earlier, that simply doing something illegal and not getting caught doesn't mean that the action is any more legal or "right" to do. Yeah, not many people get caught downloading anime illegally on the Internet, but guess what? ITS STILL ILLEGAL!

    While its clearly illegal (other than laws regarding derivative works, I don't what ambiguity in the law that Dan is talking about), people do it any way because they "know" they won't get caught doing it. However, that doesn't mean that its any more legal or "right" to do; all it means is that you didn't get caught. So why laws need to change on that front is something I will never understand.

    And while I think companies need to bring themselves into the 21st century (e.g. making their works digitally available), that doesn't mean that they need to kowtow to a bunch of pirates (digitally available doesn't mean free). Hell, doing the illegal action in the first place (downloading anime, music, etc) puts people in a bad place. Its kinda weird to have the war cry of "well, don't get mad at us for downloading your crap; you make it so easy."
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-03-2011 at 08:14 PM.
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  27. #17
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    Default Re: So

    @wolfgirl90 Legal and right are two completely different things. I wont argue the former as I'd just make a fool of myself. The one exception being any enforcement of a law that infringes on are basic right to privacy. This can be debated as how much privacy you get varies from country to country. But for the most part in places like the US, Britain, Italy, France, etc., it's pretty similar. As for the later it's relative and based on what's sociably acceptable. And as it stands sharing media is becoming more and more acceptable and changing from wrong to right. Things change, it's not up to us to support those that wont or can't change. Lets take music for example. Labels and the like may not even be needed these days. Artists have other options like YouTube. They don't need a label to get their music out there. I mean look at people like DeStorm or davedays. Both of whom make music and don't don't have a label. I know DeStorm has gotten offers but has turned them down. Not sure about davedays but I wouldn't be surprised if he did as well. It's not like every job that ever existed exists today. Look at scribes, once the printing press was invented they where rendered obsolete. Companies just need to find a new way to monetize on content. Without laws that disregards our privacy. If they can't, they fall to the wayside. This idea of sharing isn't gonna go away. Companies just need to learn to adjust. We're not here to support a business model.

  28. #18
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    Default Re: So

    No it's not illegal.. So go ahead and do it...... Enjoy that big fine they make you pay later on... Oh don't worry it's only quadruple digits.


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  29. #19
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    @wolfgirl90 Legal and right are two completely different things. I wont argue the former as I'd just make a fool of myself. The one exception being any enforcement of a law that infringes on are basic right to privacy. This can be debated as how much privacy you get varies from country to country. But for the most part in places like the US, Britain, Italy, France, etc., it's pretty similar. As for the later it's relative and based on what's sociably acceptable. And as it stands sharing media is becoming more and more acceptable and changing from wrong to right. Things change, it's not up to us to support those that wont or can't change. Lets take music for example. Labels and the like may not even be needed these days. Artists have other options like YouTube. They don't need a label to get their music out there. I mean look at people like DeStorm or davedays. Both of whom make music and don't don't have a label. I know DeStorm has gotten offers but has turned them down. Not sure about davedays but I wouldn't be surprised if he did as well. It's not like every job that ever existed exists today. Look at scribes, once the printing press was invented they where rendered obsolete. Companies just need to find a new way to monetize on content. Without laws that disregards our privacy. If they can't, they fall to the wayside. This idea of sharing isn't gonna go away. Companies just need to learn to adjust. We're not here to support a business model.
    What I was trying to point out before is that things that are illegal may or may not be wrong to do. Just because the law states I cannot worship a specific religion (some countries in ancient or modern history) doesn't mean that I'm wrong to do so, I'm just going to be in trouble with a punishment attached. I feel that now seeing through wolfgirl that it is wrong and illegal to download anything such as anime. It can hurt society financially making it wrong in my eyes and illegal because it goes against rights of companies and laws.
    You both in general make perfectly acceptable and respectable points about the topic. People shouldn't do things like illegally download anime, but companies should find a way to prevent it also, through change in my opinion.


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  30. #20
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    Default Re: So

    @Hayu You completely missed the point of my post. I'm not for the prevention of sharing media, quite the opposite.

  31. #21
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    @Hayu You completely missed the point of my post. I'm not for the prevention of sharing media, quite the opposite.
    Yes, but a person doesn't need to do it through ways of illegally downloading said media and sharing it.


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  32. #22
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    Yes, but a person doesn't need to do it through ways of illegally downloading said media and sharing it.
    Just to clarify, you do know I mean through sites like Pirate Bay and BitTorrent right?

  33. #23
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Just to clarify, you do know I mean through sites like Pirate Bay and BitTorrent right?
    Then no, I was thinking you meant, in general, anything media wise from any source, even that company itself who has the media and does not want it distributed illegally against copy rights. If your talking about Pirate Bay and BitTorrent and like sites then I cannot say much on that because I'm not that familiar with them or any like sites.


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  34. #24
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Companies just need to find a new way to monetize on content. Without laws that disregards our privacy. If they can't, they fall to the wayside. This idea of sharing isn't gonna go away. Companies just need to learn to adjust. We're not here to support a business model.
    As I said in my last post, I certainly agree that companies need to keep up with the times. In this day and age, there is almost no reason for something to not be distributed digitally (from shows to books to music). However, at the exact same time, the fact that companies need to change pace isn't an excuse to keep stealing from them. It makes no sense. That's like advocating for new security at banks when you're the thief who keeps breaking in (I support the fact that works should be available digitally, NOT that they should be free for everyone to take against the wishes of copyright holders). We as consumers may not be here to uphold a business model (and I am merely using your and Dan's words), however, its stupid to rally for change while undermining not only the rights of companies but the artists themselves (business models aside, people are still stealing from artists at the end of the day).

    File sharing may have become more sociably acceptable, but that doesn't necessarily mean that doing it is "right". Again, that goes right back to the discussion of what "right" and "wrong" means (if "wrong" is merely the opposite of whatever society deems "right" at the time). And since we've been opening worm cans all night, I will also point out that certain things that society chooses to be "right" aren't always "right" (not long ago discrimination used to be sociably acceptable and therefore "right").

    What purpose does it serve to continuously take something away from a company and artists, especially from artists that we supposedly support? Nothing that I can think of (well, other than to receive something for free, which is what I honestly think most illegal downloaders are trying to do in the first place).

    We may not have to do what the companies want us to but companies don't have to listen to us either and stealing from them only muddles the message. There are other ways of making suggestions if that is what this is about.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-04-2011 at 03:03 AM.
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  35. #25
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    Default Re: So

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    File sharing may have become more sociably acceptable, but that doesn't necessarily mean that doing it is "right". Again, that goes right back to the discussion of what "right" and "wrong" means (if "wrong" is merely the opposite of whatever society deems "right" at the time). And since we've been opening worm cans all night, I will also point out that certain things that society chooses to be "right" aren't always "right" (not long ago discrimination used to be sociably acceptable and therefore "right").
    I wouldn't say this is the entire case. Racism is a type of discrimination. Racism is the belief that inherent different traits in human racial groups justify discrimination. Technically society felt that certain racial groups would only handicap them, which is why racism probably exists in the first place for some places, not for me of course. So, technically, societies discriminated against certain groups because they thought it would be better for the progression of society. Kinda like Hitler and other people that discriminated against certain groups. Their objective was to rid the societies with certain groups for better progression of their societies.

    So, technically, even though we know they were wrong now, they thought they were right in their societies. Since the societies then discriminated because they thought it would better societies, technically discrimination in their societies was right. We adapted and changed that view to better our society in a different way of working together and now we made discrimination considered wrong.

    So discrimination was right then because it was meant to better their societies, but we changed it to being wrong (When? I'm no historian so don't ask) when we started viewing it as unacceptable in our newer "modern societies".

    Personally I believe that if society deems something acceptable because it was intended to better society then it is right by definition. The effects may even hurt society, but since society deemed it acceptable and it intended to help it progress. Are all the situations correct to deem acceptable? No, but we can adapt and change that right to wrong at any time. Or wrong to right, depending on society and it's motives during a certain time.

    That's only my opinion of course.

    So, anyways, off to bed.


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