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Thread: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

  1. #1
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    Default 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    I know it's a long read, but I assure you, this needs to be posted.

    There has been considerable confusion over the past few hours as to whether the Senate -- which passed the National Defense Authorization Act (FY 2012) -- included a last-minute "waiver" to protect American citizens from some of the bill's more outrageous and fascist elements, including the right of the US government to detain citizens -- even those on American soil, and not charged with a crime -- indefinitely in military prison. This means that peaceful protesters could be rounded up, dishonestly labeled as potential terrorists or "suspicious," and imprisoned for life without a trial or attorney. This means that federal military personnel would be patrolling our streets, literally signaling the end of our free republic.

    The offending section of the NDAA has been compared to the internment camps the US government ran during World War II, except this time around it will be Ron Paul supporters, Tea Party members, and young Occupy Wall Street organizers in the detainment camps.

    It doesn't matter if a last-minute waiver is in the bill; the offending portions are currently worded so vaguely, that any US citizen can be considered a "terrorist" or an aid to terroristic activity. Any US citizen who is inconvenient to the US government can be detained and silenced.

    Also, the intent was extremely bad here -- Sens. John McCain, Carl Levin, and Lindsey Graham INTENDED for this bill to redefine the US homeland as a "battlefield" (Graham's words, not mine), allowing the revocation of even our most basic civil rights and access to due process.

    When the intent is bad, an intentionally vague section of the NDAA can be interpreted by authorities in the worst possible way. The whole bill must be thrown out, except for key parts to continue military operations and crucial funding of our armed forces.

    Let me remind you that this is not a drill. This is not an inflammatory blogger's post. This actually happened, and with the Senate's passage of this bill, it is very close to becoming law. The US mainstream media is not covering this AT ALL, as I pointed out in a recent column. The only source for even remotely accurate information right now is on the social networks, especially Twitter -- this reminds me of something you'd experience in Iran or Syria, not in America.

    The best CNN has done, for example, is to mention there's been some "controversy" about new "detainee rights" outlined in the National Defense Authorization Act.

    The network neglects to tell its readers and viewers that "detainee" now means American citizen. This is chilling. Americans now have the same rights as random enemy combatants in Afghanistan. Your government is now treating you as it'd treat a member of the Taliban. Congress has committed treason against the American people.

    Up until now, no matter how much (or how little) wealth you had... no matter how much or little education and influence you had... every American was at least guaranteed a freedom from fear: your government could not come in the middle of the night with military non-police forces, without charge, and take you away.

    If the National Defense Authorization Act clears the House and is not vetoed by President Obama, that will no longer be true. None of us will be safe. And you won't be given access to a trial or a lawyer.

    The media is not telling the public about this bill, which means you have to, before your right to speak out disappears. Tell everyone. This cannot be allowed to stand. This is still the United States of America. And any senator who voted in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act in its current form should be forced to resign from public office immediately. They've crafted a bill that turns America's military against its own people and suspends habeas corpus.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-p...ifying-2011-12

    This is pretty serious, so I thought I would share, considering a lot of people are unaware about this.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Been knew about this and it would appreciated if people sign this:
    http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/n...boB3t&rd=1&t=1

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    consider it signed and shared on my facebook.... My friend will go crazy reading this
    "“Loneliness is a disease that can lead to death. They might as well be the same thing.”---spice and wolf

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  5. #4
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Petition signed. Considering it still has to get passed the House and Pres. Obama, it's not a total crisis yet. It may not get quite to that point, considering that next year is an election year. Too many Cronious bums will want to keep the "sweet" jobs they've had for years to allow this to continue. Plus Obama is already facing a tough fight ahead, he won't want to jeopardize his poll numbers anymore than he already has.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    More and more, The U.S.A. is becoming the every thing that none of our fore fathers wanted. It's a shame.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    I'll need to do more reading on this later. I'm still not sure what the whole bill is about yet, but it sounds like our Congress is having another major brain fart.

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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Signed the petition and posted the link to my Twitter.

    Sure, it's not a law yet, but there's no way in hell we can allow it. I'm a English-Communications student, media is my passion. I refuse for my speech to be grounds for me being labeled as a terrorist and have me detained.
    No power in the 'verse can stop me...

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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    I want to leave the country.
    And I signed the petition.

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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    This is a little ridiculous. There is a lot we don't know here to be going around screaming "Panic!". This article, if you read other David Seaman articles, is another scare tactic to make us more aware of how the government is being a "meanie".

    Just don't take this to heart because it looks serious.


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  11. #10
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Signed it, *Insert comment about Right wing lunatics*

  12. #11
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    This is a little ridiculous. There is a lot we don't know here to be going around screaming "Panic!". This article, if you read other David Seaman articles, is another scare tactic to make us more aware of how the government is being a "meanie".

    Just don't take this to heart because it looks serious.
    We don't know anything because the media isn't reporting anything about it.

    If it looks serious, then why in the hell shouldn't people take it to heart? You do realize this goes against almost everything in the constitution and that your rights are essentially being revoked, right?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post
    We don't know anything because the media isn't reporting anything about it.

    If it looks serious, then why in the hell shouldn't people take it to heart? You do realize this goes against almost everything in the constitution and that your rights are essentially being revoked, right?
    So, the media which has their noses in everything under the sun has no clue what's going on, but idiots on twitter and blogs do including poorly written and radical articles do? Your even going to post this nonsense in the forum with no credibility or an actual good source? You even go so low as to barely think the fact maybe this isn't actually happening like rumors suggest? Maybe it is, but do you know that for sure Scruffy? Can you honestly tell me and everyone on this forum in America "this goes against almost everything in the constitution and that your rights are essentially being revoked" yet you and all of us people have no idea what's actually going on?

    You know what? Let me go outside right now, burn my couch and start a riot, tell everyone things I'm not certain of all because of a shitty article with shitty resources and no actual proof.

    There is nothing wrong with being concerned, but when you start throwing out statements with nothing behind them you already defeated yourself.


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  14. #13
    Senior Member marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix has a reputation beyond repute marvel_phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy View Post
    We don't know anything because the media isn't reporting anything about it.

    If it looks serious, then why in the hell shouldn't people take it to heart? You do realize this goes against almost everything in the constitution and that your rights are essentially being revoked, right?
    They say the best place to hide is right out in public. Just because the media isn't reporting it, does not mean that something does not exist. More and more the media bends to special interest groups and sensationalism. The fact that Kim K's short "marriage" gets more headlines than things that truly effect everybody in this country speaks volumes. We could potentially be in a world of hurt.

    God forbid that piece of legislation should ever be signed. *knocks on wood* If it should, than where will things stop? First will be the Occupy protestors, then Pro-Abortion, then Immigration and Homosexuals (not necessarily in that order). This has the potential to *criminalize* our very lifestyles and beliefs. Even if it's just smoke, we need to stand up and let our elected officials know that we will not tolerate such a thing.
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  15. #14
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by marvel_phoenix View Post
    They say the best place to hide is right out in public. Just because the media isn't reporting it, does not mean that something does not exist. More and more the media bends to special interest groups and sensationalism. The fact that Kim K's short "marriage" gets more headlines than things that truly effect everybody in this country speaks volumes. We could potentially be in a world of hurt.

    God forbid that piece of legislation should ever be signed. *knocks on wood* If it should, than where will things stop? First will be the Occupy protestors, then Pro-Abortion, then Immigration and Homosexuals (not necessarily in that order). This has the potential to *criminalize* our very lifestyles and beliefs. Even if it's just smoke, we need to stand up and let our elected officials know that we will not tolerate such a thing.
    We cannot be certain about things we are not certain of. David Seaman makes it seem like were supposed to just march up to the capital and start revolting. Why do people start to get into a panic when we're all ignorant of this situation? Hell, this may not even be the truth. We should stop, think, and not act in such a irrational manner about things we don't know.


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  16. #15
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    We cannot be certain about things we are not certain of. David Seaman makes it seem like were supposed to just march up to the capital and start revolting. Why do people start to get into a panic when we're all ignorant of this situation? Hell, this may not even be the truth. We should stop, think, and not act in such a irrational manner about things we don't know.
    I'm not saying march on the capital either, but a formal "Your voting population has their eye on you" is warranted at this time. (Salt Lake City's Occupy population is already on the march...) The writing of the Bill is rather vague on the subject at hand, however.

    Link to the Bill posted as of Nov 15, 2011: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:S.1867:
    Takes you to Subtitle D: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...RY4z2:e462417:

    Subtitle D, Section 1032, Subsection 4:
    WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.
    I think that we all can agree that part does warrant further discussion/clarification before signature.

    The blogo-sphere has lit up over all of this, and yes, at this time it may look like they're just being paranoid, but until the laws say other wise, that is still their legal right. The quiet of all the mainstream media does have me a bit concerned. The closest anyone has come to mentioning this was the Huffington Post. It seems that most everyone else has focused on the financial costs.

    Only time will tell what comes of this, but it is something to keep our eye on. The senate has already voted down an amendment that would have put a better "leash" on the detainment sections, so let's hope the House and President have a little more sense, or at least a little more fear as far as the voting populace is concerned.

    BTW here is the Senate Roll Call for S.1867: http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/218
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    This must not come to pass. I want that looney toon looking dude Kim Jong Il to continue shaking his stupid head at us. This includes every other similar regime.
    America is land of the free, not home of the specifically intolerant.
    Last edited by Albear; 12-02-2011 at 08:34 PM.


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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayu View Post
    We cannot be certain about things we are not certain of. David Seaman makes it seem like were supposed to just march up to the capital and start revolting. Why do people start to get into a panic when we're all ignorant of this situation? Hell, this may not even be the truth. We should stop, think, and not act in such a irrational manner about things we don't know.
    And by that very same token, we should research rumors and thoroughly debunk them with said research, not curse and spew a bunch of crap about burning couches and riots. Considering the fact that this isn't old news (and it HAS been on the news, for EVERYONE'S information), you should have been able to find information about this all over the place, but apparently you haven't, so let me enlighten you.

    This whole mess about the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act, specifically the issue about the provision about detaining American citizens, isn't new. This has been going for weeks. And the threat against US citizens is very real.

    Now, I wouldn't make it as severe as random protesters, homosexuals and pro-abortionists being sent to military camps, mostly due in part to the fact that the Democratically-controlled Senate is the one passing the bill (so complaining about the right-wing is actually rather silly; its technically the left that's voting for it). However, the bill does allow people, even US citizens, to be detained indefinitely without a trial, a blatent violation of our rights. It should be noted, however, that US citizens are exempt from being detained by the military, so the "military patrolling our streets" thing is a bit of a fib (for US citizens anyway; non-citizens are not exempt from the law and if they are suspected of being members of Al-Qaeda or its affiliates, they can be placed in military custody).

    This thread has interesting timing because while people are signing a petition against the bill, the White House has already threatened to veto the ever loving hell out of it.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Now, I wouldn't make it as severe as random protesters, homosexuals and pro-abortionists being sent to military camps, mostly due in part to the fact that the Democratically-controlled Senate is the one passing the bill (so complaining about the right-wing is actually rather silly; its technically the left that's voting for it).
    No, you're right. *puts on tinfoil hat and stands on soapbox* They'll just confiscate our guns instead, and those who refuse to comply will then be labeled accordingly as terrorists AND THEN locked away never to be seen/heard from again. *gets off soapbox and tucks tinfoil hat under arm*

    But yes, it is serious whether this is signed or not. Even if Obama does veto it, congress could still send it back through the house and senate and get it put through that way. The whole thing is just a bad sign for how complacent this country has become. We allow paranoia and greed to dictate how we live.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    I was about to say...isn't this how Hitler conquered Germany? Through rumor, ignorance, conjecture, propaganda, and fear? Seems the past is coming back to haunt us, as we have learned nothing. I'm with Seung-li on this one, might as well start gittin, while the gittin's good.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    I was about to say...isn't this how Hitler conquered Germany? Through rumor, ignorance, conjecture, propaganda, and fear?
    Okay, that's kinda vague and could be said about most politicians, including Bush and Obama.

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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    Okay, that's kinda vague and could be said about most politicians, including Bush and Obama.
    If you want to make the comparison, be my guest. I was referring to McCain, Levin, and Graham's notion of the US being a "battlefield". Sounds like using fear tactics to me. However, unlike the unfortunate German masses we can speak out against this, hopefully McCain's "secret" police won't shoot you first.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    And here's how the american government answers the protesters cries for change. Grats guys.

    ein, zwei, drei, vier bin endlich weg von Dir
    fünf, sechs, sieben, acht Du hast jetzt keine Macht



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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou+ View Post
    Been knew about this and it would appreciated if people sign this:
    http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/n...boB3t&rd=1&t=1
    Already did, Obama is also concerned about this as well. I don't want it to see it happen.

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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    If you want to make the comparison, be my guest. I was referring to McCain, Levin, and Graham's notion of the US being a "battlefield". Sounds like using fear tactics to me. However, unlike the unfortunate German masses we can speak out against this, hopefully McCain's "secret" police won't shoot you first.
    Pardon me, but isn't it rather backwards to point out McCain's use of ignorance to scare people, yet insinuate that he has a "secret police" that will shoot you? As long as we are pointing out how bad it is to use rumor and propaganda to influence opinions, let's not turn around and do the exact same thing.

    Of course, the detainment provision in the 2012 NDAA is neither rumor nor propaganda; it actually exists (marvel_phoenix gave a link to it) and the Senate unfortunately voted for it (overwhelmingly, in fact; 93-7).

    Now, if this is supposed to be a fear tactic, its not working, at least not in the way it should. Basically saying that people can be detained by the military if they "suspect" (whatever that means at the end of the day) that we are members of Al-Qaeda or its affiliates and are planning an attack against the US (and that the Secretary of Defense can actually strip away that requirement) is not going to make us fear anybody except the government. Hell, its pissing people off more than anything.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 12-03-2011 at 04:05 PM.
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    Default Re: 2012 National Defense Authorization Act

    there are two movie scenes that go good with what congress is doing and what we the people should be doing

    If history repeats itself, and moves in a circular path, then believing that whatever force is turning it is perfect, is all we can do as we move ahead. Pushed along by forces beyond our control, waiting, for the blade to be swung.
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