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Thread: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    But the friend zone is the best zone!
    Ricksha rides are fun too, so long as you're not the one pulling.

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    I don't date, there are too many jerks at my school.

    Still, if there was a person I would consider dating, I'd prefer the direct approach. Not a total love confession or anything, just a guy brave enough to ask me out face to face to see a movie or something. Maybe hang out at my place, play a video game, watch an anime. Just something cozy.

    Course, now I'm going into perfect date details....
    "Parents and guardians don't care if they're sending you to face bloodthirsty monsters, so long as you get a B in English." - The Chronicles of Vladimir Tod
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    But how many times you hit the ground can be determined on which way the wind is blowing. If you catch it just right as you jump, you may just land on those cushions.....if they're there.
    And depending on the cushions, you might still break a bunch of bones when you get to the bottom.
    This is my war face.

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    I think there's no reason for you to be indirect when you know the person you are courting. Being straightforward is the best way ;D

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Being friend zoned is bad.. But for things to get so awkward after asking a girl out that she will eventually stop talking to you.. Is even worse.
    ....

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Well when I asked my girlfriend out I was gonna ask her the day before but I wasn't sure how so the next day I was talking to her through text messenges and I eventually told her I really liked her and it turned out that she really liked me so yh thats how I'm with her now ^^

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capitán View Post
    Being friend zoned is bad.. But for things to get so awkward after asking a girl out that she will eventually stop talking to you.. Is even worse.
    Not always, it depends on who you're friends with and what kind of a person they are. A friend is there for you for good and bad time. Even in cases where you may end up falling for them, however, they do not necessarily like you, they'll do anything to maintain a friendship. It reciprocate; if one wants to still be friend, the other should be the same as well even if it's involve with asking one out. First off, don't always have your hope up too much. Even if she'll say no, at least be thankful for being her friend. I think, personally, that is good enough. Not only girls does that, its the same for boys. I've asked two boys in my life, one said "he'll think about it" and avoided me a whole year. It pissed me off, and I said "Look I can accept a "no" instead of being ignored. It's fine, but let's still be friends anyway." I, some how, can take rejection and put it in some kind of a positive thing. I kind of asked my current fiance out three years ago, I let him know that as much as possible I don't want our friendship to be ruined. I wished for him to want the same, and I just asked the question. Followed by with sugar-coating words (with genuine feeling), and well I got a yes. It depends who is the person and how you ask. Unfortunately some people, I believe, encounter someone who isn't right or didn't ask right. (Now, I'm not saying my way is right, but it may work on certain people. It's maybe luck that I got a yes?)

    I feel for guys who encounter girls that are well... you know. But girls are the same way when it happens to them. You're lucky if you'll get someone that is meant for you. I do think friend zone is a happy zone. I can also be fine being single, too. Friendship is better anyway. But I'm just madly in love with my best friend. <3

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capitán View Post
    Being friend zoned is bad.. But for things to get so awkward after asking a girl out that she will eventually stop talking to you.. Is even worse.
    No, that sounds much better than being friend zoned.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio:2626576
    Quote Originally Posted by Capitán View Post
    Being friend zoned is bad.. But for things to get so awkward after asking a girl out that she will eventually stop talking to you.. Is even worse.
    No, that sounds much better than being friend zoned.
    The only other person with common sense...about this. *good on you, mate*.

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seung-li View Post
    Not always, it depends on who you're friends with and what kind of a person they are. A friend is there for you for good and bad time. Even in cases where you may end up falling for them, however, they do not necessarily like you, they'll do anything to maintain a friendship.
    And that can honestly work out depending on the person.

    However, when you really like somebody, and they were giving you signs that they liked you in return (or you thought they did), only for them to shoot you down to the "friend zone", its going to hurt (really, really hurt) and its hard to come back from that.

    Sure, some people can take it reasonably well and maintain a friendship with that other person. But others take it hard, wondering if they did something wrong to ruin that chance at a relationship or if they even HAD a chance at a relationship to begin with. A bunch of thoughts keep swirling around:

    "What were they looking for?"
    "Did I do something wrong?"
    "Will they ever like me the way I like them?"
    "Was I being led on the whole time (and was it a mistake on my part or were they just teasing me)"?

    After all of that, being in the "friend zone" is going to be rather painful (especially if, even after asking all of those questions, you still have feelings for that person).

    I'm not saying that its impossible to maintain a friendship. Just that, depending on how strong your feelings were for a person (and how seemingly strong those signals were that the other person was "sending" in return), just being friends is going to be rather tough.
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Huh, I was fine with being her friend. Being friend zoned hurts a little but I was fine with that. I wanted to continue being friends but she did not feel the same by ignoring me after I tried to ask her out.

    I know it's not always the case, but it did happen to me and I'm mad.. at the events after asking her. I get mad thinking about it too....
    ....

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    I like both depending on the approaches applied by boys...
    haahahhah
    Love Your enemies

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    From my experience with girls, I tried being indirect and hoping they would pick up on hints I'd drop, and they either wouldn't get it, or they would prefer someone's direct approach over mine.

    I know not every girl is like that, some other girls I know are kind of nervous when a guy directly approaches them, but in my opinion, it's better to tell her straight up that you like her, even if she says no, at least she'll see you were brave. :P
    No power in the 'verse can stop me...

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    But the friend zone is the best zone! There's a guy I've liked for 7 years. All throughout the 7 years I never allowed it to go past the friend zone even though I realllly liked him. I liked him too much to the point I was fine being friends. Friendship last longer :]

    though my current boyfriend was pretty direct with me :] I like directness. I hate pondering. I do that enough as is.


    And that's exactly why, if you really want it to go beyond the 'friend zone-zone', you don't get there! xD


    I belive that most of the times it's like this:
    You don't become someones partner while being their best friend.
    You become their best friend while being their partner.

    Because people do can, lol x)), say no to a further relationship in fear of loosing your friendship (if the relation wouldn't work out, and then they wouldn't even have you any more as a friend).

    Of course you can still become someones partner while being in the friend zone, but most of the times it's much much harder. But hey, if you really want it then why not going for it? But you have to prepare to 'jump out there perhaps not landing on the pillow' (as mentioned earlier in the thread by gazgul) in the process.





    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post

    As for the subject matter, I have said it in at least 2-3 different threads. Girls are nuts, we as "men" will never know what it is they want in the way of a relationship or how to tell if they want a relationship with us. It's a cruel game they play on us, because they know they can, and that we are ill equipped to handle the mental weapons of mass destruction when it comes to emotional warfare. With this I mean the following:

    1) batting of the lashes - does this mean she likes me ? No, but she does like the guy standing behind you though.
    2) the giggling at our stupidest joke - maybe there's something there after all ? No, she's laughing because she needs you to do something for her...with her date tonight with the other guy.
    3) flirting - I really think she must like me ? No, she's just brushing up with her target practice..one shot, one kill.
    4) You're my best friend - she will torture you with chatter of the other guy and how much she likes him, because you're good enough for a friend but not good enough for more than that.

    Don't get me wrong not ALL girls are like this...there are some out there that will play fair. But, those are the most intimidating. Again, if you want to know if a girl likes you...sometimes it means having to fall on your own sword. If you're not willing to try, then don't play the game.

    Still, it's VERY hard! What one person perhaps saw as a 'ah! he/she is flirting with me! <3' the other person may just have been nicely to that person. People are interpreting things differently. What one person perhaps have seen as a date downtown, the other may just have seen it as meeting her/his friend down at the city - just as he/she could've meet any other close friend. So a person that have turned you down perhaps didn't do anything to hurt your feelings, it was just you two who wasn't on the same level and you both interpretend the other persons feelings in the wrong way.



    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    And that can honestly work out depending on the person.

    However, when you really like somebody, and they were giving you signs that they liked you in return (or you thought they did), only for them to shoot you down to the "friend zone", its going to hurt (really, really hurt) and its hard to come back from that.

    Sure, some people can take it reasonably well and maintain a friendship with that other person. But others take it hard, wondering if they did something wrong to ruin that chance at a relationship or if they even HAD a chance at a relationship to begin with. A bunch of thoughts keep swirling around:

    "What were they looking for?"
    "Did I do something wrong?"
    "Will they ever like me the way I like them?"
    "Was I being led on the whole time (and was it a mistake on my part or were they just teasing me)"?

    After all of that, being in the "friend zone" is going to be rather painful (especially if, even after asking all of those questions, you still have feelings for that person).

    I'm not saying that its impossible to maintain a friendship. Just that, depending on how strong your feelings were for a person (and how seemingly strong those signals were that the other person was "sending" in return), just being friends is going to be rather tough.

    Yes, yes, yes, yes! I agree with everything. You say so many wise things... *kisses your hand in affection and in idolatry*


    You are a very wise "wolf".

    Last edited by SuXrys; 11-29-2011 at 04:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    I've come to realize that the indirect approach offers you some insurance and security, however, it's a slower method. That means another guy will have a chance to cease that opening, and of course if the girl you like is a ditzy, dense person. With the direct approach, you have much more of a chance of being rejected, or become embarrassed (if you're not prepared or confident enough), but you will know the answer faster (in most cases).

    It's not in my best interest to give bad advice, but someone told me before that you should not be friends with a girl you're attracted to and can't have. It will spare you a lot of pain. That's why the friend zone sucks. You get rejected, while you're forced to sit back, and watch the girl of your dreams get taken away from you by another guy. And if you really have it bad, you'll be wondering if he will treat her as good as you could have.

    Oh, Hi-deeki, imagine... your kind not eating raw fish! ^_^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE38SKRT4ak



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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Yes, yes, yes, yes! I agree with everything. You say so many wise things... *kisses your hand in affection and in idolatry*

    You are a very wise "wolf".
    While the pic was insanely cute, if I'm going to be any "wise wolf", it's going to be this one:



     
    What can I say? I've got Spice and Wolf on the brain.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Motosuwa. View Post
    I've come to realize that the indirect approach offers you some insurance and security, however, it's a slower method. That means another guy will have a chance to cease that opening, and of course if the girl you like is a ditzy, dense person.
    The girl doesn't have to be ditsy to miss your signals; she could just be a more direct person.

    I'll use myself as an example. While I can certainly interpret signals from other people (hell, I dare say that I am rather good at it), I don't like reading between the lines; not for too long anyway (as Scar would say: "I DESPISE guessing games"). I could easily try to "take a hint" but I don't like being put in that position of having to constantly interpret where a relationship is going. AT SOME POINT, the indirectness has to stop and they have to confront me about their feelings directly (it doesn't have to be some grand performance; I just want the person to say it); otherwise, I will confront THEM about it, which is going to be beyond awkward because it could be either a positive or a negative confrontation (depending on how the relationship has been, it could be "I want to know what feelings you have for me" to "I am about two steps away from leaving you").

    So the girl may not be "ditsy", just more open to direct actions than indirect signals. The indirect "approach" will certainly work on girls who are more direct. However, there's a reason why it's an "approach"; it'll get you through the door, but it won't hold the door open (and we sure as hell are not going to hold the door open for you forever).
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 11-29-2011 at 04:25 PM.
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  26. #42
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    If you want direct go caveman on her and club her over the head. Hell, you nearly have to do that with some girls...though now a days most girls just give it away. It's a catch 22 no matter how you look at it guys. Damned if you do, even more so if you don't. But is flirting a form of direct approach? I flirt with girls when I go shopping all the time, usually starting with something they may have in their cart. I can 9/10 times get a good laugh. T-boned a cute girls cart at Costco the other day, and asked her for her license and proof of insurance. She was confused at first, but definitely got it. But does that mean anything to them? We talked for a few...asked if she'd seen the new Muppets movie (hint) and nothing came of it...*sigh* I hate this f'en game so badly.
    Last edited by solidarmor; 11-29-2011 at 05:34 PM.
    It's always in the last place you'd think of looking!


  27. #43
    Senior Member SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys's Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    If you want direct go caveman on her and club her over the head. Hell, you nearly have to do that with some girls...though now a days most girls just give it away. It's a catch 22 no matter how you look at it guys. Damned if you do, even more so if you don't. But is flirting a form of direct approach? I flirt with girls when I go shopping all the time, usually starting with something they may have in their cart. I can 9/10 times get a good laugh. T-boned a cute girls cart at Costco the other day, and asked her for her license and proof of insurance. She was confused at first, but definitely got it. But does that mean anything to them? We talked for a few...asked if she'd seen the new Muppets movie (hint) and nothing came of it...*sigh* I hate this f'en game so badly.

    If a random guy came infront of me and asked me if I had seen the new Muppets movie I wouldn't had understand the 'hint' either, heck... I don't even know what you are talking about right now! I would've just said 'no' and then being quiet, wondering why he asked me about a muppets movie all of a sudden. xD Ooohh am I stupid woman... *cries in the dark corner of shame for not understanding*

    Next time, why not just asking if they want to go and take a cup of coffee or something like that somewhere? Much easier, no room for missunderstandings. ~


    And hey, what is 'T-boned'? I even tried to google it but couldn't find anything. *starts to fluff up my pillow in my dark corner of shame, because it feels like I'll be there for awhile*

  28. #44
    Senior Member Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán has a reputation beyond repute Capitán's Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    T-boned is smashing the side of something with another object. In that case, shopping carts.

    Actually, hitting would be a better word.
    Last edited by Capitán; 11-29-2011 at 06:10 PM.
    ....

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  30. #45
    Nice Boat Captain Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by solidarmor View Post
    But is flirting a form of direct approach?
    It depends. If you're known to be a friendly person, or if the girl "reads" you (yeah, girls see things us guys don't) and thinks you're just being friendly, then probably not. If she can tell you're the flirty type, and you're being flirty with her, then I'd say it's a more direct approach.

    Oh, Hi-deeki, imagine... your kind not eating raw fish! ^_^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE38SKRT4ak



  31. #46
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Next time, why not just asking if they want to go and take a cup of coffee or something like that somewhere? Much easier, no room for missunderstandings. ~
    Of course, like most people have said, it honestly depends on the girl and the situation.

    I may be a direct person and a flirt, but that doesn't mean that every invitation made my way is met with a smile on my face; hell, sometimes its quite the opposite. I would certainly get the hint if a guy asked me if I would like to go out for a cup of coffee but, although he was direct with me, in the back of my mind, he has already messed up:

    1. I hate coffee.
    2. That was the most cliched thing I've ever heard.
    3. If only you knew me better because food is the best way to appease me, not beverages (not even getting me good and drunk at a bar is going to work...unless that bar has good food ).

    Like @solidarmor said, for guys it can be damned if you and damned if you don't; I'll admit that it is very true for me. I'll think that a guy was bit of a coward for not being upfront with me with his feelings but then be critical towards a guy if he was so direct as to approach me incorrectly (there are things guys can do that will turn me off instantaneously).

    *shrugs* Its very messed up, I know.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  32. #47
    Senior Member SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys's Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Of course, like most people have said, it honestly depends on the girl and the situation.

    I may be a direct person and a flirt, but that doesn't mean that every invitation made my way is met with a smile on my face; hell, sometimes its quite the opposite. I would certainly get the hint if a guy asked me if I would like to go out for a cup of coffee but, although he was direct with me, in the back of my mind, he has already messed up:

    1. I hate coffee.
    2. That was the most cliched thing I've ever heard.
    3. If only you knew me better because food is the best way to appease me, not beverages (not even getting me good and drunk at a bar is going to work...unless that bar has good food ).


    *shrugs* Its very messed up, I know.

    Yeah... but still. If a girl clearly doesn't understand the "hint" then it's better to be straightforward then thinking afterwards if she would've liked it or not. And yeah... I don't do coffee either. But if someone doesn't like it, and they actually do consider to atleast chat with you some more, then Im quite sure that they will say something like "oh no I don't drink coffee! (laughter) But how about x?" or something something.



    This whole thread reminds me little about the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". Now, I don't agree handsdown at everything in the book but some things I do agree on. Like this example: (from the book, taken from my memory database).



    Le woman and man driving in a car ~

    ...
    ...
    Hey! Look at that café! *points* It looks nice doesn't it? [she wants to stop there and have a snack, it was read "between the lines"]
    ... Yeah it looks nice. *continues to drive*
    ... But?
    *being grumpy and thinking something like 'Ooh! Well then forget it! Excuse me for "asking"!!!*
    *still drives and thinks something like "Now why did she change her mood like that? Confused...*".



    I mean.... Coooooooooooome on! Atleast I think it's a little funny... x))
    Last edited by SuXrys; 11-29-2011 at 07:47 PM.

  33. #48
    Nice Boat Captain Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Of course, like most people have said, it honestly depends on the girl and the situation.

    I may be a direct person and a flirt, but that doesn't mean that every invitation made my way is met with a smile on my face; hell, sometimes its quite the opposite. I would certainly get the hint if a guy asked me if I would like to go out for a cup of coffee but, although he was direct with me, in the back of my mind, he has already messed up:

    1. I hate coffee.
    2. That was the most cliched thing I've ever heard.
    3. If only you knew me better because food is the best way to appease me, not beverages (not even getting me good and drunk at a bar is going to work...unless that bar has good food ).

    Like @solidarmor said, for guys it can be damned if you and damned if you don't; I'll admit that it is very true for me. I'll think that a guy was bit of a coward for not being upfront with me with his feelings but then be critical towards a guy if he was so direct as to approach me incorrectly (there are things guys can do that will turn me off instantaneously).

    *shrugs* Its very messed up, I know.
    From the way you explain things, it sounds messy XD It seems, the guy who likes you, will lose either way. There's no way for him to win lol. Maybe you shouldn't be so critical with approaches. If the guy is a good guy, and you like him back, then it shouldn't matter if he screws up his initial approach (unless he does something uncalled for, or way outlandish).

    Back in my first semester of Theatre class, I actually gathered up the courage to ask a girl I liked, "Would you like to hang out with me?" And I treated this very casually. However, she said, "I already have a boyfriend." I was crushed, and it was awkward for me to see or talk to her again... especially when she and her boyfriend were walking around together. She still talked to me a few times though.

    Oh, Hi-deeki, imagine... your kind not eating raw fish! ^_^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE38SKRT4ak



  34. #49
    Senior Member SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys has a reputation beyond repute SuXrys's Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hideki Motosuwa. View Post
    or way outlandish

    Time for a english lesson:

    What does "outlandish" means? Im feeling confused.





    Im ready to learn! *sits in school 'bench' and points at Hideki*
    Teach me ~



  35. #50
    Nice Boat Captain Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa. has a reputation beyond repute Hideki Motosuwa.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Courting: Direct or Indirect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post

    Time for a english lesson:

    What does "outlandish" means? Im feeling confused.





    Im ready to learn! *sits in school 'bench' and points at Hideki*
    Teach me ~


    Lol, it just means you're doing something really weird, or too much out of the ordinary. Mainly, I think it's just guys who try and attempt something they simply cannot do to impress a girl. It's okay to brag, but only about things you're capable of.

    Oh, Hi-deeki, imagine... your kind not eating raw fish! ^_^


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE38SKRT4ak



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