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Thread: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    You know that even one small human can make a difference right?
    Go and stand outside the white house on a box and hold a speech about what you are angry about and people will listen to you,
    maybe even newsreporters will show up. Your voice will be heard and people may discuss what you said more after hearing you.

    If you don't like something. Go out and be politican active, don't just sit at home and complaining.
    Like we haven't tried that. There's tons of petitions and the like on sites like change.org. They haven't done squat. Short of a revolution, the government is too corrupt to change. All they care about is putting money in there pockets and making sure those that don't have money get stepped on. So yeah, you can protest all you want and it'll do nothing. Nothing can change if the government wont listen. And this government has long since closed it's ears to us.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    I come from a family that has severed proudly in the military (brothers in the Navy and Army currently) I have not one problem with the repeal of "Don't ask, don't tell" Of course there will be discrimation amoung the ranks in the service. It's not right but that's just the way it is. I think its a great idea to futher open the door so that those willing to sacrifice their time and their lives for this country can serve openly. I don't believe a flamboyant homosexual is going to stay flamboyant in the military for very long. It's your superior officers job to break you down and build you back up. Again, I think it is wonderful that they repealed "Don't ask, don't tell" but I fear for the discimiation within the military that will come of it.
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bassoonista View Post
    I live in the Bible Belt.

    I'd probably get shot.
    Still, being afraid and doing nothing doesn't change anything either.
    I don't tell you to go out and become shot, but it's always someone who starts it all. Were exacly do you live?



    But then Jonathan said it was something he must do, even if it was dangerous. ‘Why?’ I wondered.
    ‘Otherwise you’re not a human being but just a piece of dirt’ said Jonathan." Jonathan to Scotty, from The Brothers Lionheart (1973)



    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Like we haven't tried that. There's tons of petitions and the like on sites like change.org. They haven't done squat. Short of a revolution, the government is too corrupt to change. All they care about is putting money in there pockets and making sure those that don't have money get stepped on. So yeah, you can protest all you want and it'll do nothing. Nothing can change if the government wont listen. And this government has long since closed it's ears to us.

    Well, have you done anything?

    If you don't think that internet campains works, then why doing something else? Why not go and stand infront of the white house, holding a speech, while standing on a box? Opinions does change things, not only money. If a opinion is strong enough then even the most selfish politican can ignore that fact.

    Go and join the politics and fight the system from inside, it will do much more then just talking negative about it on a internet forum.
    Besides, being active in politics is fun!

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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    There are alot of things woman can do in the military, everything isn't just about caring alot of heavy things and running.
    And still, there are women who are stronger then men.
    Exactly. Women don't have to hide their identities or how they live; why should homosexuals? Everyone has the right to serve the land they love in any way they see fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Why are your dad so against homosexuals being in the army?
    He was raised in a Mormon household (as was I), and most Mormons are firmly against homosexuals having any sort of rights, considering their "sins". It's quite sad, really... I've heard horror stories from my German teacher who is an ex-Mormon, but let's not get into THAT.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    What are you worrying about? What are you afraid will happen?
    While "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was in motion, homosexuals weren't asked about their sexual orientation, and so they were never required to bring it up. Now that it has been repealed, they have the freedom to tell whomever they please. That would be fine and dandy, but now it will be must easier for homophobes or extremists to discriminate against them. Worst case scenario, it will be easier for people to blackmail or try to find ways to kick them out of their positions. Of course, it all comes down to whether or not they decide to reveal their sexual orientation while in the military, but should those who choose to express themselves really be discriminated against?

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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    text

    Oh no... don't come talking about the mormons! I will just start thinking about South Park! .... burp to late! Noooooo! xD
    Now my dreams of this night are ruined, thank you very much.

    Well Im glad you don't think the way you were raised, since homosexuals don't have any "sins" to begin with.

    I think that, about being afraid that they will be blackmailed, that everything will take time to get used to. In the beginning then sure people will behave like something dumb that a dog found in the trashes, but then the only thing that you really can do is to ignore them or telling them to behave like normal people, to make them stop. If you don't give wood to smoke then it will not become a fire, it will die and disapear. After awhile homosexuals in the military will not be a strange thing. Everything just takes time to get used to, it's natural. It's up to you as a human being to help homosexuals being open with their sexuality if that is what they want to. If you hear someone talk bad about something like that, like talking bad about homosexuals in the army exc, then you have to take responsibility to stand up and tell them that they are wrong, and not being afraid to do so. It's the only way to do things the right way. Both for their well being and for your own, not stand up and tell people what you think only makes you feel bad. Atleast that is how I feel, and I hope others feel the same way.

    No one should be less valued because they are homosexuals. It's just as natural as being straight.
    Everyone is created in one way and the only thing you can do is to accept that fact.


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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Oh no... don't come talking about the mormons! I will just start thinking about South Park! .... burp to late! Noooooo! xD
    Now my dreams of this night are ruined, thank you very much.
    I love that episode, btw. So wrong but so true in so many ways. X_X lol

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Well Im glad you don't think the way you were raised, since homosexuals don't have any "sins" to begin with.
    Everyone has sin. Straight people sin, gays sin, white people sin, African-Americans sin. Everyone does it. (It's the newest fad!) No but seriously, just because someone makes a personal life choice, doesn't mean they should be hated or turned away if they want to support something they believe in. Granted, if you're a serial killer, there might be some problems if you wanna join the military, but anywayyy...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    I think that, about being afraid that they will be blackmailed, that everything will take time to get used to. In the beginning then sure people will behave like something dumb that a dog found in the trashes, but then the only thing that you really can do is to ignore them or telling them to behave like normal people, to make them stop. If you don't give wood to smoke then it will not become a fire, it will die and disapear. After awhile homosexuals in the military will not be a strange thing. Everything just takes time to get used to, it's natural. It's up to you as a human being to help homosexuals being open with their sexuality if that is what they want to. If you hear someone talk bad about something like that, like talking bad about homosexuals in the army exc, then you have to take responsibility to stand up and tell them that they are wrong, and not being afraid to do so. It's the only way to do things the right way. Both for their well being and for your own, not stand up and tell people what you think only makes you feel bad. Atleast that is how I feel, and I hope others feel the same way.
    Until America as a whole decides to get over the fact that homosexuals are allowed in the military, I will have to worry about some loved ones who may be discriminated against. That's my biggest concern at the moment, to be honest. But I realize that there will always be those hard-headed people who never open their eyes. "Haters gonna hate", I just hope that the haters don't go overboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    No one should be less valued because they are homosexuals. It's just as natural as being straight.
    Everyone is created in one way and the only thing you can do is to accept that fact.
    Acceptance isn't really the issue, it's more like tolerance. People shouldn't be forced to accept anything; they have the right to their own opinion. As long as they don't excessively b~tch or complain about it, then I don't really care how they feel. They can accept or not accept homosexuals. It's their own opinion, and no one has the right to hold a knife to someone else's throat for stating a different one. They should simply tolerate it, and keep their snide remarks to themselves, imo.

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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Still, being afraid and doing nothing doesn't change anything either.
    I don't tell you to go out and become shot, but it's always someone who starts it all. Were exacly do you live?



    But then Jonathan said it was something he must do, even if it was dangerous. ‘Why?’ I wondered.
    ‘Otherwise you’re not a human being but just a piece of dirt’ said Jonathan." Jonathan to Scotty, from The Brothers Lionheart (1973)





    Well, have you done anything?

    If you don't think that internet campains works, then why doing something else? Why not go and stand infront of the white house, holding a speech, while standing on a box? Opinions does change things, not only money. If a opinion is strong enough then even the most selfish politican can ignore that fact.

    Go and join the politics and fight the system from inside, it will do much more then just talking negative about it on a internet forum.
    Besides, being active in politics is fun!
    Not personally but I've seen everything from protests outside Washington to actual handwritten petitions fail. All I'll say is, you don't live here. You don't know how things work here. All you get is pretty much scraps from your news outlets. Try living here before you make suggestions that should work but don't with this current government. Which has become more like a business then a government.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuTama View Post
    text
    Yes, you are right in so many ways.

    Have you discussed this new happening in your family?


    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Not personally but I've seen everything from protests outside Washington to actual handwritten petitions fail... [...]
    Just because previous attempts has failed, doesn't mean that you should give up.
    No matter where you live, it works pretty much the same. Try hard enough, and things will change. Just look at the history when woman got to vote.

    I have relatives living outside New York, so I know some of how it is there since we talk to them now and then, and they are visiting us also sometimes.


    I still think that being active in the politics is a better way then doing nothing.

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  9. #34
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Just because previous attempts has failed, doesn't mean that you should give up.
    No matter where you live, it works pretty much the same. Try hard enough, and things will change. Just look at the history when woman got to vote.

    I have relatives living outside New York, so I know some of how it is there since we talk to them now and then, and they are visiting us also sometimes.


    I still think that being active in the politics is a better way then doing nothing.
    What makes you think the politicians will listen to something that will reduce there flow of income? Hell I just read a story about one that said 600k isn't enough and that after he feeds his family he only has 400k to do as he pleases. This while much of America is struggling just to pay bills let alone have any spending money. It just shows you they're detached from us. They don't care about anything but gaining money.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    What makes you think the politicians will listen to something that will reduce there flow of income? Hell I just read a story about one that said 600k isn't enough and that after he feeds his family he only has 400k to do as he pleases. This while much of America is struggling just to pay bills let alone have any spending money. It just shows you they're detached from us. They don't care about anything but gaining money.
    Yes I agree with you that whose politicans are detached from the normal population. But from what I can read from you you don't seem to be wanting to do something about it, it's almost like you have been giving up. Giving up is not the option! I really think you should join the politic, or do something. You are just giving me this super negative attitude right now and since Im so interested in politic myself it makes my heart bleed.

    I think if the opinion is strong enough they have to reduce their income. But at the moment the opinion and the "force" against it isn't strong enough. People didn't thought that the system with the monarchy would ever change in old Russia either, and see just how that workt out. People even stormed the winterpalace to make their voices heard ... Now atleast it isn't an monarchy. Things do change if you stand up to it strongly enough, I really don't think that it's a fact to be denied.

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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Yes I agree with you that whose politicans are detached from the normal population. But from what I can read from you you don't seem to be wanting to do something about it, it's almost like you have been giving up. Giving up is not the option! I really think you should join the politic, or do something. You are just giving me this super negative attitude right now and since Im so interested in politic myself it makes my heart bleed.

    I think if the opinion is strong enough they have to reduce their income. But at the moment the opinion and the "force" against it isn't strong enough. People didn't thought that the system with the monarchy would ever change in old Russia either, and see just how that workt out. People even stormed the winterpalace to make their voices heard ... Now atleast it isn't an monarchy. Things do change if you stand up to it strongly enough, I really don't think that it's a fact to be denied.
    That's the idea. Short of something drastic they wont change. At least not in the future. What's the point of doing something if they don't listen? It's just a wasted effort. They listen to the people who pay them. They could care less if they hurt us in the process.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    That's the idea. Short of something drastic they wont change. At least not in the future. What's the point of doing something if they don't listen? It's just a wasted effort. They listen to the people who pay them. They could care less if they hurt us in the process.
    Well I still don't agree with you, as you probably already know, and I hope that you will change your way of viewing the world in the soon future. Everything changes as long as people are prepared to actually do things to make those changes come true.

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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    What makes you think the politicians will listen to something that will reduce there flow of income?...They don't care about anything but gaining money.
    They don't care about anything but gaining money, AND they don't care about wasting the taxpayers' money.

    Has anyone heard about the Justice Department's $16 muffins? That's 2 days' worth of food money for me!! Outrageous!
    If an entire department can conspicuously waste money like this, I really have absolutely no hope for individual politicians.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    They don't care about anything but gaining money, AND they don't care about wasting the taxpayers' money.

    Has anyone heard about the Justice Department's $16 muffins? That's 2 days' worth of food money for me!! Outrageous!
    If an entire department can conspicuously waste money like this, I really have absolutely no hope for individual politicians.
    Insane. That muffin didn't even looked worth it.

    But don't you think that they will have to "step it up" now when the economy is at it is and when the eyes of the world are at them?

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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.



    Woohoo!!!!!

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    But don't you think that they will have to "step it up" now when the economy is at it is and when the eyes of the world are at them?
    And, that, my dear, is precisely where the problem lies. Even with this gloomy economy and an unemployment rate of 9 point something percent, the government is still as wasteful as always, while the taxpayers are hit hard. It's kinda hard for us to believe that the government/politicians would ever for once truly think for the common people. After all, why worry about how to put the people back to work when they can enjoy their $16 muffins? Who cares if the people and the world are watching? Collective responsibility/blame can be easily diffused. Government itself is like a form of big business now.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    text.

    Do they talk about the goverment alot in the news or in tv-programs? What do they say? Are they angry?

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  18. #43
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post

    Do they talk about the goverment alot in the news or in tv-programs? What do they say? Are they angry?
    Are we angry? Yes, we're disgruntled and frustrated with our government, especially the fact that the Congress has been bantering like schoolchildren.

    On the news, almost everything is about the government and politics, and almost every piece is negative, (some on the President, some on the Democrats, some on the Republicans, and some on everyone.) When people are angry, a news station had better find someone or some organization to place the blame. Besides, there really is no happy story about the gov't to share right now...

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    This is the American government in a nutshell:

    Picture a kindergarten class. This said kindergarten class is explaining to their teacher (the American public) that another child has broken the teacher's prized vase (we'll let that vase be the American Economy) Now let's say that the class is then divided into two groups (the republicans and the democrats) and each group is shouting and accusing the other group of the damage. Then, one student from each group is selected to be the "leader." Now these two students are talking with their groups quietly to form a reasonable and plausible story to tell the teacher about the vase (This would be the time where the two parties are preparing for their campaign after selecting a candidate for each party.) They then explain their sides to the teacher and the teacher selects a side that is most believable. The party that is selected will show off and try to be the good students. At the end of the day, however, they all return to being little kids who cry for their juice and a nap. They never change and never will. Does that make any sense to any of our non-American members here who had any question about the American government?

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    I face palm at suXrys. This is why I have a hatred for Norwegians. They come from a "perfect" society and they just do not understand how things are in america. What you think is normal and what actually is are two different things. What you're used to being subject to and what we are used to being subject to on daily basis's are two very different things. It's like asking a white rich guy what's it like living in the projects. They don't know. All they know is what they hear on TV. It's very different you just don't compare it. You guys are not used to all the mass crime or government walking all over you or anything.

    I'll tell you right now. Campaigning and petitioning all that jazz is bologna. In fact petitions never work and I like to believe they don't exist. My brother is a politician so I know first hand how much it doesn't work. You can rally up in front of the white house all you want but nothing is going to happen. You can speak into a microphone all you want but people are going to walk right past you. People do not stop and listen these days. And even if they did listen at the end of the week they'll have forgotten they were even listening to you and what you talked about. If you do not understand America try not to get into it's politics. Stick to your own government.

    Anyways. I'm thrilled about the don't ask don't tell. It made me happy for my gay friends! Growing up there wasn't much they could do. But slowly and surely the rest of the world is opening up to them and slowly accepting them and that's amazing. They are your brothers. sisters. neighbors. friends. I don't understand why the world shuns them because they kiss someone with the same body parts.
    Last edited by Rainbow Crash; 09-23-2011 at 06:17 AM.


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  21. #46
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    I spent the last 2 days "debating" this subject of FB.

    Bloody religious people annoy me.




  22. #47
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Religion starts wars.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    I face palm at suXrys. This is why I have a hatred for Norwegians. They come from a "perfect" society and they just do not understand how things are in america. What you think is normal and what actually is are two different things. What you're used to being subject to and what we are used to being subject to on daily basis's are two very different things. It's like asking a white rich guy what's it like living in the projects. They don't know. All they know is what they hear on TV. It's very different you just don't compare it. You guys are not used to all the mass crime or government walking all over you or anything.
    I have to go with this(except for the part that I hate Swedish and Norwegians; considering my closest e-friends are from those places) Norwegians and Swedish friend, when something happens in America, their opinion about it seems pretty ignorant, you already know what I am talking about.

    The "baddest" thing that happened in Norway was that Bank Assault, something that happens 23123123123123 here, and not to mention it was a hot topic throughout a few years, according to Kazuha.

    ---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

    EDIT: Of course, we had this conversation before the drastic and horrible terrorism attack in Oslo back in the summer. My friend and I were having a serious discussion about it.


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  24. #49
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    I face palm at suXrys. This is why I have a hatred for Norwegians.

    Im not from Norway. How you can mix up norwegians with swedes is a mystery to me.


    But I get the point, America is another country that Im not used to, but I still don't understand how it can be so hard to actually do anything. Just the thing with just complaining and not do anything yourself annoys me to the end of this world! But I don't think that I feel that way just because I am from Sweden, absolutly not, but rather I would say it's because I am political active myself and thus want others to be the same. Even if you say it doesn't work my whole soul still screams "but do something then!" but again.... I guess it's the "politican" in me speaking.



    Also I don't get why you hate us from nothern Europe, Isn't that a bit harsh? Specially since I don't get the feeling that you have been here either and thus don't know if this "perfect" sociaty is so "perfect" after all.... I sure don't think that, and I am the one living here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Masta K View Post

    [/COLOR]EDIT: Of course, we had this conversation before the drastic and horrible terrorism attack in Oslo back in the summer. My friend and I were having a serious discussion about it.

    Crime still happens here, you just don't hear them all. But uh, don' talk about that attack... That just one man can carry so much hate inside and actually do something so terrible still makes me feel awful inside. One of the survivors had a blog where she wrote about the attack and that just made me cry so much. So it was on the american news aswell? huh, didn't knew that.
    Last edited by SuXrys; 09-23-2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: my english grammar makes me cry...

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  25. #50
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    Default Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell is no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuXrys View Post
    Im not from Norway. How you can mix up norwegians with swedes is a mystery to me.


    But I get the point, America is another country that Im not used to, but I still don't understand how it can be so hard to actually do anything. Just the thing with just complaining and not do anything yourself annoys me to the end of this world! But I don't think that I feel that way just because I am from Sweden, absolutly not, but rather I would say it's because I am political active myself and thus want others to be the same. Even if you say it doesn't work my whole soul still screams "but do something then!" but again.... I guess it's the "politican" in me speaking.



    Also I don't get why you hate us from nothern Europe, Isn't that a bit harsh? Specially since I don't get the feeling that you have been here either and thus don't know if this "perfect" sociaty is so "perfect" after all.... I sure don't think that, and I am the one living here.





    Crime still happens here, you just don't hear them all. But uh, don' talk about that attack... That just one man can carry so much hate inside and actually do something so terrible still makes me feel awful inside. One of the survivors had a blog where she wrote about the attack and that just made me cry so much. So it was on the american news aswell? huh, didn't knew that.
    Only reason I found out about it at first minute was, because I talked to him literally every day before he went to the military.

    Blue's aversion towards Scandinavians is kinda silly, but I somewhat understand where she's coming from. You guys don't really get the stuff some that happens here because your society is actually calmer.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 09-23-2011 at 03:45 PM.


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