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Thread: US Debt Disaster

  1. #76
    Senior Member Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    I never asked you to debate the specifics of eating well. As such, being homeless and starving are not mutually exclusive.
    i never said they they were.
    i'm just saying that homeless people are hungry more often than not.

    I didn't miss it, you twit. You edited it in AFTER I posted.
    no, i made the word *EDIT* bold. that is why the edit time says it was after you already posted. i made it bold so you wouldn't miss it twice.
    the original info was already in the post.

    maybe you should know what the heck you are talking about before you start calling people names.

    As such, the 1.5 million includes everyone one who is uses shelters on a temporary basis.
    so??? you're point???
    do you not except someone as homeless unless they meet your strict homeless criteria??
    is someone not really homeless to you, until they have been homeless for a year or something??

    tell me o wise one. how many days does a person need to be homeless, before they are truly homeless??

    Oh, how cute. I can truthfully say that not everyone who receives food stamps needs them. Oh snap, you can't prove that wrong, while simply sitting at a Liquor store proves me right.
    i never said that EVERYONE needs them. however the vast majority do.

    Are you saying that 10 million people abusing the system is acceptable simply because there are people who are using the system correctly?
    no i'm saying that 10 million people abusing the system is less important than the fact that 30 million people can't afford food.
    you said:"I think the larger problem is how many people are abusing the system."

    the larger problem is that we even need the system. everyone should be able to afford to eat in america.
    the fact that they can't, while the rich wipe there butts with hundred dollar bills is the "larger problem"

    They got new jobs, I should think that would be fairly obvious.
    oh, well i guess it wasn't that rough for ya then, since they managed to find new jobs so easily .

    Yeah, I sincerely doubt that.
    believe what ya want.

    Cherry flavored cheese is about $20 a pound. I'm guessing they are so poor that spending $20 on cheese is perfectly frugal. Maybe they should buy bags of Ghirardelli Chocolate, because that's totally how you act when you're pinching pennies.
    maybe they are just getting more stamps then they need, but that's a whole different debate.

    people abusing the system to get free food, and the government just giving more than they should are different issues.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 08-06-2011 at 10:07 PM.
    "If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia."

  2. #77
    Senior Member Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    @1920s:

    WWI ended in late 1918, and the roaring 20s were stirred up by the bubble with overconfidence - morale inevitably came from the war's end. The growing consumer confidence that fueled the bubble's growth behind the 'Roaring' economy of the 1920s can also be attributed to the economic policy (or lack thereof) forged by Harding and Coolidge's administrations. The war ended in late 1918, but it's improbable that the consumer confidence rise from '23 to '29 had anything to do with the war; and it's more likely that the rise had everything to do with the business-friendly governments the two Presidents would serve in office. I can agree that taxes are only one component in the relationship between government and business that should to be changed in the United States to solve the debt crisis and economic woes, but it must be questioned how productive a limited-government approach to business is for each of these components, because the roaring 20s's consumer confidence ratings were propelled by something other than the war.

    On the other hand, you can further tax the wealthy and more fortunate classes of the United States, further enticing them move to more prosperous and cheaper-to-live areas outside the nation, making it even harder for the expanding poor to be successful themselves. Taken a step further, you can examine governmental intervention and regulation of the markets, and may ask yourself how those growingly accepted and increasingly employed policies in government have gotten us thus far.
    ---
    The fact that the United States has taken itself from an economy of agglomeration into a suburban one (heck, it even told people to leave cities and get housing for themselves because it was their right (double thanks for Fannie & Freddie)) is actually one of the main reasons why it's going to be so hard to move away from our economic issues.

  3. #78
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    i never said they they were.
    i'm just saying that homeless people are hungry more often than not.
    And how exactly do you justify blaming the rich for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    no, i made the word *EDIT* bold. that is why the edit time says it was after you already posted. i made it bold so you wouldn't miss it twice.
    the original info was already in the post.

    maybe you should know what the heck you are talking about before you start calling people names.
    I was actually looking at your original post with the original source of the 744,000 number. Clearly your organizational habits are as paltry as your typing skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    so??? you're point???
    do you not except someone as homeless unless they meet your strict homeless criteria??
    is someone not really homeless to you, until they have been homeless for a year or something??
    My point is that someone who is simply sleeping in their car for the night because their paycheck was late isn't truly homeless. It's estimated that on 18%-22% of those counted are chronically homeless, and that 35%-45% are only without a home for around three weeks.

    No set numbers because they are all different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    tell me o wise one. how many days does a person need to be homeless, before they are truly homeless??
    Depends on how you define homeless, it's different for each of the studies. There is no truly accurate count on the number of homeless in the U.S. It says that in nearly every story, surly you must have read it once or twice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    no i'm saying that 10 million people abusing the system is less important than the fact that 30 million people can't afford food.
    There have always been those who can't afford to feed themselves. However, many of them don't need cell phones or cable TV. As Wio said, we've defined poverty as something completely above what it should be. Are there people that need food-stamps, yes. However, some of them should think about what is an actual need, and what is frivolous puffery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    the larger problem is that we even need the system. everyone should be able to afford to eat in america.
    the fact that they can't, while the rich wipe there butts with hundred dollar bills is the "larger problem"
    Oh, the sheer naivety. There will always be people who need the system. The poor will always exist, and hoping for some utopian society to come along and save them is childish.

    However, the rich can do whatever they please with their money because they've earned it. You can't say that Billionaire Bob stole his fortune from Beggar Brandon. You can't blame Billionaire Bob for Beggar Brandon's need for booze. How can you villianize a class of people simple because someone made poor choices or drew the bad hand of cards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    oh, well i guess it wasn't that rough for ya then, since they managed to find new jobs so easily .
    Your pretentiousness knows no bounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    maybe they are just getting more stamps then they need, but that's a whole different debate.

    people abusing the system to get free food, and the government just giving more than they should are different issues.
    And the government giving more than they should is clearly the fault of the rich, and we must punish those dastardly rich because they don't pucker up and let the government take what they've earned.

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  5. #79
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Skillero View Post
    @1920s:

    WWI ended in late 1918, and the roaring 20s were stirred up by the bubble with overconfidence - morale inevitably came from the war's end. The growing consumer confidence that fueled the bubble's growth behind the 'Roaring' economy of the 1920s can also be attributed to the economic policy (or lack thereof) forged by Harding and Coolidge's administrations. The war ended in late 1918, but it's improbable that the consumer confidence rise from '23 to '29 had anything to do with the war; and it's more likely that the rise had everything to do with the business-friendly governments the two Presidents would serve in office. I can agree that taxes are only one component in the relationship between government and business that should to be changed in the United States to solve the debt crisis and economic woes, but it must be questioned how productive a limited-government approach to business is for each of these components, because the roaring 20s's consumer confidence ratings were propelled by something other than the war.

    On the other hand, you can further tax the wealthy and more fortunate classes of the United States, further enticing them move to more prosperous and cheaper-to-live areas outside the nation, making it even harder for the expanding poor to be successful themselves. Taken a step further, you can examine governmental intervention and regulation of the markets, and may ask yourself how those growingly accepted and increasingly employed policies in government have gotten us thus far.
    ---
    The fact that the United States has taken itself from an economy of agglomeration into a suburban one (heck, it even told people to leave cities and get housing for themselves because it was their right (double thanks for Fannie & Freddie)) is actually one of the main reasons why it's going to be so hard to move away from our economic issues.
    The main issue with this is that rapid growth and over-consumption can not be sustained. There's simply no way to stop the 'give and take' of the markets, and when you removed regulation and government involvement, there's nothing to stop a trough from spiraling into bottomless pit.

    Sure the economy does great and party's hard, but when the next day comes and the hangover sets in, it's pretty gnarly.

    I suppose.. if you're fine with super high economic peaks, coupled with miserable economic troughs... but personally, I prefer my economy to not have bi-polar disorder.

    Will we have to go through this garbage again in the year 2060?- I sure hope not. maybe by then we'll finally learn that this trickle-down method just doesn't work.
    Last edited by Ericgamer1; 08-07-2011 at 12:29 AM.

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  7. #80
    Senior Member Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat has a reputation beyond repute Assiduous✡Aristocrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanromml View Post
    Good, good. The US will fall...and the fat, idiot americans will no longer be able to keep going how powerful and awesome their pathetic nation is.

    No longer will they have any excuse to treat the USA as a centre of the universe nor consider themselves better then Europe, China, Japan, Russia or any other great nation/culture they previously despised and labelled as inferior.
    I like how ignorant you are. It's cute.

    You sound... Jelly.

    And Videogamer555: Running a counrty is different from running a company.




  8. #81
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by ★ Tobifreed ★ View Post
    I like how ignorant you are. It's cute.

    You sound... Jelly.
    Jelly? Not really. If anything, somewhat butthurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by ★ Tobifreed ★ View Post
    I like how ignorant you are. It's cute.
    Will you take me home?

  9. #82
    Actually bigger than you. miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil has a reputation beyond repute miniPhil's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanromml View Post
    Will you take me home?
    Is that going to be a thing now? Some Nigerian family will adopt Madonna.
    This is a Sig. It's horribly out of date.

  10. #83
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by miniPhil View Post
    Is that going to be a thing now? Some Nigerian family will adopt Madonna.
    I bet they find her kawaii

  11. #84
    Senior Member Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    The main issue with this is that rapid growth and over-consumption can not be sustained. There's simply no way to stop the 'give and take' of the markets, and when you removed regulation and government involvement, there's nothing to stop a trough from spiraling into bottomless pit.

    Sure the economy does great and party's hard, but when the next day comes and the hangover sets in, it's pretty gnarly.

    I suppose.. if you're fine with super high economic peaks, coupled with miserable economic troughs... but personally, I prefer my economy to not have bi-polar disorder.

    Will we have to go through this garbage again in the year 2060?- I sure hope not. maybe by then we'll finally learn that this trickle-down method just doesn't work.
    Consumer confidence obviously gained from the policies. Consumers of today are under-confident, and even an increase in their expenditures will induce economic growth and perhaps lead business owners to hire more than they are now. And I think there are forms of government regulation and restrictions that can be limited. A quick Google of government regulations brings me to the White House page for 'Energy, Climate Change, and Our Environment' (http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy). And at the top of the 'At a Glance' section of the website from the front page, I find a quote from President Obama:

    Quote Originally Posted by website
    As we recover from this recession, the transition to clean energy has the potential to grow our economy and create millions of jobs - but only if we accelerate that transition. Only if we seize the moment.
    For me, accelerating the transition from the energy we use now to the clean energy the President speaks of can only mean government intervention. The transition probably does have the potential to lower costs for companies, but the government is not in a position to enforce such things for the time being; this quote and website can represent over-regulation by the government.

    It's actually been proven that moving to cities greatly increases energy efficiency per capita because everything is in a close vicinity, and housing is stacked; in contrast to suburban developments. Off-topic, but I'd love to point out again the Fannie and Freddie ordeal, and that actually hurt the environment more than any oil-drilling endeavor could. Which brings up another point of government overregulation: We have many reserves of oil, but refuse to drill them for environmental reasons kept up by the government. If the country's in shambles and the future doesn't look all too bright for us, why don't we drill for oil? It'd only be one thing to fix the problem, but lower gas prices should prove helpful to people domestically and it's obvious that gas prices affect consumer confidence ratings.

  12. #85
    Senior Member Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    @Aeschylus
    ya know, most people say that as soon as you start yelling and throwing insults around, then you have already lost the debate.

    if all you wanna do is:
    1) call me a twit
    2) rag on my organization
    3) rag on my typing
    4) call me naive
    5) call me childish
    6) leave me bad rep just because i have a different view than yours (even though I have remained civil)

    well, then i guess we are done for now.
    maybe next time we talk we can have a "grown up" debate, and you can leave the silly name calling and uncalled for insults out of it.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 08-07-2011 at 03:05 PM.
    "If you talk to God, you are praying. If God talks to you, you have schizophrenia."

  13. #86
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    @Gauntlgrym , @Aeschylus

    Quote sniping kills meaningful discussion. Cut it out or I'll close the thread.
    D:

  14. #87
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Consumers of today are under-confident,
    All I've seen from the local news is doom and gloom about the debt and economy. It doesn't help consumer confidence to feed them the same moldy news everyday.

    I really think consumers today need to rethink their priorities. If you're struggling to pay your car or house payment, do you really need that new cell phone? Might just be me, but I'd rather eat than talk to people.
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    @Aeschylus
    ya know, most people say that as soon as you start yelling and throwing insults around, then you have already lost the debate.

    if all you wanna do is:
    1) call me a twit
    2) rag on my organization
    3) rag on my typing
    4) call me naive
    5) call me childish
    6) leave me bad rep just because i have a different view than yours (even though I have remained civil)

    well, then i guess we are done for now.
    maybe next time we talk we can have a "grown up" debate, and you can leave the silly name calling and uncalled for insults out of it.
    1.Yes, I did didn't I?
    2. & 3. Spot on; however, I did not try to contradict your arguments with that.
    4. That's because the idea of a society without the poor is naive.
    5. I called the idea of a Utopian society childish.
    6. I left you a bad rep because you were pretentious in trying to say my life has been sheltered and naive in thinking that increasing taxes will eliminate poverty, not because I disagree with you.
    And it's "self" not "sefl"

    I love how you say I lost the debate, but you did not contradict any of my points, it's cute.

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  16. #88
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    The main issue with this is that rapid growth and over-consumption can not be sustained. There's simply no way to stop the 'give and take' of the markets, and when you removed regulation and government involvement, there's nothing to stop a trough from spiraling into bottomless pit.

    Sure the economy does great and party's hard, but when the next day comes and the hangover sets in, it's pretty gnarly.

    I suppose.. if you're fine with super high economic peaks, coupled with miserable economic troughs... but personally, I prefer my economy to not have bi-polar disorder.

    Will we have to go through this garbage again in the year 2060?- I sure hope not. maybe by then we'll finally learn that this trickle-down method just doesn't work.
    The government is good at promising the impossible. It can't stop the cyclical nature of the economy. Ironically, they make cycles more severe than otherwise possible by enabling behavior which isn't economically viable. Because the government is powerful and takes wealth for granted, it can both create bubbles as well as forestall market corrections. However those corrections to happen eventually and the longer you stall them, the more disastrous they are.

  17. #89
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    The only Americans that wll keep their money and pull through unscathed will be the celebrites and politician.
    Perhaps they should learn from the book of Luke, on the rich man and the beggar.
    Last edited by Robin Sena; 08-09-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    The main issue with this is that rapid growth and over-consumption can not be sustained. There's simply no way to stop the 'give and take' of the markets, and when you removed regulation and government involvement, there's nothing to stop a trough from spiraling into bottomless pit.

    Sure the economy does great and party's hard, but when the next day comes and the hangover sets in, it's pretty gnarly.

    I suppose.. if you're fine with super high economic peaks, coupled with miserable economic troughs... but personally, I prefer my economy to not have bi-polar disorder.

    Will we have to go through this garbage again in the year 2060?- I sure hope not. maybe by then we'll finally learn that this trickle-down method just doesn't work.
    i agree, trickle-down does not work!
    because of this, we can make things better with a simple move. more taxes for the rich.

    it's funny how most of our economic problems can be solved, just by taxing 2% of the population more, but for some reason we don't do it.
    guess the rich can afford to pay awesome lobbyists, but can't afford more taxes :P

    also, the percentage we tax the rich, is at one of the lowest points it's ever been at. why is that?? why are we taxing them less than ever, when we need the money more than ever??
    look at the 1930-1980 chart in wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_..._United_States
    (it's about 1/8 down the page)

    the chart shows that throughout most of the last hundred years, the rich (250k+) have been taxed over 60%, and as high as 92%
    we need to get back to the way things used to be in america!

    another thing that needs fixed imho......is the tax bracket.
    you can find the 2011 irs tax bracket here:http://www.bargaineering.com/article...-brackets.html

    according the current bracket, someone making $174,400 per year, pays 33% tax.
    however someone making $10,000,000 per year, pays 35% tax.

    why is it that someone who makes over 50 times what another does, only pays 2% more in tax???

    this tax bracket needs to be extended. it can't just be $379,150+
    it needs be changed so that people making 10,20,50,100, or even a 1000 times what others do, are not only 1 bracket higher.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 08-08-2011 at 08:49 PM.
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  19. #91
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    Default Re: US Debt Disaster

    They're almost finished making the "super congress"

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Washington has a compromise problem. And now, lawmakers face a seemingly impossible task -- find a way to institute reforms that have eluded policymakers, all while markets and rating agencies watch with rapt attention.
    After risking default, the nation's lawmakers agreed last week on a plan to raise the debt ceiling.


    The deal slashed spending. But it included no tax hikes and no entitlement reforms -- items that virtually every budget expert says are needed.
    Those tough choices were kicked down to a 12-member bipartisan super committee tasked with finding another $1.5 trillion in budget savings.
    "What we need to do now is combine those spending cuts with two additional steps: tax reform that will ask those who can afford it to pay their fair share and modest adjustments to health care programs like Medicare," President Obama said this week.
    That sounds easy enough -- but it will actually require mountains of political will and lawmakers who are willing to risk their jobs.
    "There is no question about the political backlash they will face," said Julian Zelizer, a professor of history and public affairs at Princeton University. "There are a lot of reasons to be skeptical."
    The first three lucky lawmakers to be appointed were Democratic Sens. Patty Murray, Max Baucus and John Kerry.
    Republicans announced their choices on Wednesday. Reps. Jeb Hensarling, Dave Camp and Fred Upton garnered appointments from the House. And Jon Kyl, Pat Toomey and Rob Portman will represent Senate Republicans.
    full article: http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/news...ttee/index.htm

    (Side note: these were really the best pictures they could find of the lawmakers?)

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