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Thread: Paid Organ Donation

  1. #1
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    Default Paid Organ Donation

    I'm curious what peoples thoughts on this are. I don't mean like the guy who did if for for an iPad. Watched a video on Youtube and it made a lot of sense. You'd get more people donating, the death count would decrease if not drop to zero as there may not be a waiting list anymore. You could argue moral but frankly, if it helps more people live then I see no reason not to go for it. Those who do have issue with being paid for it can still opt out and do it free.


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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    I guess provided that the doctors can guarantee the safety and well-being of the donors and the recipients, then I won't have a problem with this type of program, since it's kinda like blood donation.

    Of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know all the medical implications and complications behind this, but frankly, I couldn't care less about the moral/religious aspect of the argument.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    The problem is just that, safety. If giving away organs was perfectly safe, then there would be no controversy. But all surgery carries a risk of complications. Heck, even the anesthesia alone is dangerous. Then there's the risk of infections (which even in modern operating rooms can't be ruled out). Then there's the risk of surgical error.

    So the main argument against paying people for their organs is that it's paying them to risk their lives and health, which is disproportionately enticing to the poor, and which is where the whole morality part comes in.
    Last edited by Eris; 07-25-2011 at 03:38 PM.
    D:

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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    @Eris Giving something like a kidney is perfectly safe these days. As the doctor in the video said, they never had anyone die as a result of the procedure. There's always risk even if you do it willingly. Should people simply not be allowed to donate because of the risk? And who cares if the poor seek doing this out? It saves a life and they get some financial help they need. And why should morality matter when someones life is on the line? Should we allow what it takes to save a persons life? I personally think a life is worth more then someones morality.

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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    @Eris Giving something like a kidney is perfectly safe these days. As the doctor in the video said, they never had anyone die as a result of the procedure.
    I don't accept the doctor in the video as an impartial source on the safety of kidney donations.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    There's always risk even if you do it willingly. Should people simply not be allowed to donate because of the risk?
    The difference is the economic coercion. If you do it willingly, you do so fully aware of the risk. If you do so in order to pay your bills, you have no choice but to take the risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    And who cares if the poor seek doing this out? It saves a life and they get some financial help they need. And why should morality matter when someones life is on the line? Should we allow what it takes to save a persons life? I personally think a life is worth more then someones morality.
    Which is a moral statement in it's own.

    Allow me to pose a different solution. All adults are entered into a mandatory government lottery. When an organ is required, a ticket is drawn, and the person who is selected is taken (by force if necessary) to a hospital for harvesting. This is identical to what the video proposes, except it enters everyone rather than the poor into the lottery.
    D:

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    @Eris In order.

    1. Fair point, you can find other information on kidney donation by doing a simple search. Information examples here and here.
    2. You'd still be doing it willingly even if paid. The risks would be told up front as is standard medical procedure. I don't see how this changes whether you do it free or not.
    3. It can be looked at such. In which case the moral that is human life should trump any other moral out there. As for your lottery example, it hold no bearing in that the person wouldn't be told the risks and would still possibly suffer consequences even if minor. And in the case of Athletes, they wouldn't be able to continue their career due to the fact it's not recommended to engage in contact sports. If people do it for money all the aspects of free donation would still be there save the free aspect. And again, I ask you, why is it an issue for the poor to benefit from something like this?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    2. You'd still be doing it willingly even if paid. The risks would be told up front as is standard medical procedure. I don't see how this changes whether you do it free or not.
    No you are not doing it willingly. Do you really think stuff like welfare would be available to a man who could just as easily cash in big on his kidneys? beyond that, it's not like stereo vision is essential. And do you really need your entire liver? Seems a bit excessive to have. Not to mention a missing patch of skin off your back isn't really that much to make a fuss about anyway. And who uses a both their lungs? It's not like people do manual labor these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    3. It can be looked at such. In which case the moral that is human life should trump any other moral out there.
    Another moral statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    As for your lottery example, it hold no bearing in that the person wouldn't be told the risks and would still possibly suffer consequences even if minor. And in the case of Athletes, they wouldn't be able to continue their career due to the fact it's not recommended to engage in contact sports. If people do it for money all the aspects of free donation would still be there save the free aspect. And again, I ask you, why is it an issue for the poor to benefit from something like this?
    It's not that the poor benefit from it, it's that they are shoehorned into it. If you run into economic problems, you don't have any option but to sell your organs, regardless if it impairs your future work or pursuit of happiness.
    D:

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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    I seem to be getting angrier and angrier with videos posted on AF. Who edited this?
    "What would be a good time to cut this shot? How bout before she finishes talking?"
    "Sounds good to me."

    As for organ donation I wouldn't do it myself but if other want some compensation it makes sense. As yer one said in the video, surgeons get paid, doctors get paid etc.
    This is a Sig. It's horribly out of date.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    @Eris

    1. Except it'd be a one time payment. Between, taxes they'd have a year and a half most to live off any money they'd make. As for the other comments, they're just stupid. It's proven you don't need two kidneys to live and fully function (unless you're a football/rugby player). You do need two lungs to fully function. And I don't get what your getting at with the skin patch argument as skin grafts are minor surgery and are routinely done to help heal serious open wounds or cover hideous scars. And this is more aimed at the kidney's and liver. In the case of the liver, while you only have one, both end up with fully functioning livers since the liver can regenerate if the procedure is done well.

    2. I commented on that and as such there is no other reason for this sentence.

    3. They'd still have the option not to do it and laws shouldn't be enacted to force them to take that route first. Nor should such thing as healthcare require you to do so before receiving help from them. Not to mention, there's a chance if such a thing is allowed that you'd run into the problem of no one around to buy your kidney as there may be no donor list since everyone who needs a transplant, has one. And if you read the links I provided, you'll understand that it doesn't effect future quality of life. There's no study to prove that it increases things like kidney failure or diseases.

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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    If it's paid, it's no longer considered "donation", it's flat-out sold.
    Not gonna watch the video. I've already told this to a becoming-lawyer friend of mine who is also a moralfag. Remembering how the morgue acted when my cousin died in obscure circumstances: they had the scene cleared of investigations in just an hour because they were in a rush to harvest her organs. Autopsy result (if any thorough investigating was ever done): suicide. It was then clear to me that our hospital directors, just like cops and mayors, who are supposed to do community services, were gaining something off the record, actually EVERYTHING. I'm willing to bet some fat, 60 year old rich fart had paid for a pancreas or something before she died.
    So do I want my guts to end up in some "random needy person" even after I die and won't need them? Hell NO! If they didn't want people to die because nobody would donate them an organ, they'd've already invested in synthetic or cloned (or clone-harvested) organ research. But no, you try something like than and they'll shut you down, throw you some "does not comply with our ethics" or "unauthorized by the (paid) medical community" bs and lock you up as soon as you save your first life. It's obvious they prefer transplanted instead; who else but the big fish, bosses, politicians and shadowy figures pays better money for black market medical supplies? Just like extracting oil instead of producing hydrogen fuel, they'd rather strip off organs than to make them from scratch.
    So until people will lighten up, I'll say terminal diseases are here for a good, good reason and learn to accept that you are it and please die.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Quote Originally Posted by lil' McDoom View Post
    If it's paid, it's no longer considered "donation", it's flat-out sold.
    Not gonna watch the video. I've already told this to a becoming-lawyer friend of mine who is also a moralfag. Remembering how the morgue acted when my cousin died in obscure circumstances: they had the scene cleared of investigations in just an hour because they were in a rush to harvest her organs. Autopsy result (if any thorough investigating was ever done): suicide. It was then clear to me that our hospital directors, just like cops and mayors, who are supposed to do community services, were gaining something off the record, actually EVERYTHING. I'm willing to bet some fat, 60 year old rich fart had paid for a pancreas or something before she died.
    So do I want my guts to end up in some "random needy person" even after I die and won't need them? Hell NO! If they didn't want people to die because nobody would donate them an organ, they'd've already invested in synthetic or cloned (or clone-harvested) organ research. But no, you try something like than and they'll shut you down, throw you some "does not comply with our ethics" or "unauthorized by the (paid) medical community" bs and lock you up as soon as you save your first life. It's obvious they prefer transplanted instead; who else but the big fish, bosses, politicians and shadowy figures pays better money for black market medical supplies? Just like extracting oil instead of producing hydrogen fuel, they'd rather strip off organs than to make them from scratch.
    So until people will lighten up, I'll say terminal diseases are here for a good, good reason and learn to accept that you are it and please die.
    This is about donors who are alive not dead. There's a difference. And a for your cousin, it's sad and wrong what may have happened but it's a different beast.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Well last time I checked (last year and it was still so), even live donors can't sell their organs; they have to be volontarily donated (and the medical community will not accept otherwise); whatever amount they gain from them is purely off-record and therefore in black market affairs.
    That story about a boy in China selling a kidney for an iPad, I don't recall hearing the hospital was very responsible about the transaction, nor the selling agent showing himself; but then again, it's China, you can only expect the worst in a hospital there.


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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Quote Originally Posted by lil' McDoom View Post
    Well last time I checked (last year and it was still so), even live donors can't sell their organs; they have to be volontarily donated (and the medical community will not accept otherwise); whatever amount they gain from them is purely off-record and therefore in black market affairs.
    That story about a boy in China selling a kidney for an iPad, I don't recall hearing the hospital was very responsible about the transaction, nor the selling agent showing himself; but then again, it's China, you can only expect the worst in a hospital there.
    This has nothing to do with that boy, as I said in the first post, but about should it be allowed. And the transaction would be between donor and recipient.

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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Sheesh, if by allowed you mean legalized, then taxed then advertised then handled by private organ donor finding agencies, notwithstanding both clients' after-operation satisfaction... I'd say we'd be one step closer to creating our very first industrial human slaughterhouse (not that I think it's a bad idea yet). I still stand by the thought that human-to-human organ transplant should be obsoleted soon.


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    Default Re: Paid Organ Donation

    Quote Originally Posted by lil' McDoom View Post
    Sheesh, if by allowed you mean legalized, then taxed then advertised then handled by private organ donor finding agencies, notwithstanding both clients' after-operation satisfaction... I'd say we'd be one step closer to creating our very first industrial human slaughterhouse (not that I think it's a bad idea yet). I still stand by the thought that human-to-human organ transplant should be obsoleted soon.
    Or a local listing website could be made, people sign up, get paid directly by the recipient and not have to worry about any of the other stuff.

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