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Thread: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

  1. #76
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
    Gil
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    Default Re: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    It's not so much OK as it is understandable. If you shock a rat every time it hears a bell, they figure out pretty quickly that there's an association between the two.
    However the majority of Black Americans today have not been treated with extreme racist attitudes. You've got a rat reacting to something it hasn't felt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    I think it's more unreasonable that every white person that whines about double standard expects black people to forget about the last 500 years of history simply because White America as a whole hasn't been jerks for most of 50 years.
    You'd have to know something to forget it, and let's be realistic: Most youth today are receiving absolutely deplorable history lessons. I'm guessing that Americans in general have an understandable reason to make fun of the British too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    I hear they don't much like Germans in France or Russia, but it's not unfounded or unfair because there's a very good historical precedent.
    Oh please, Europeans have grudges for any wrong done to them by a neighbouring country. Of which, have more to do with religion and royal skulduggery than race.

  2. #77
    Senior Member Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym's Avatar
    Gil
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    Default Re: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    People that had dogs set on them and their children are still around, of course they aren't going to forget in 50 years.
    im not saying they should forget, they just shouldn't hold me (or others that didn't do it) accountable.
    how would you feel if your dad killed someone, and the courts decided to send you to jail for murder too, just because you were his offspring.

    It's not "ok", it's simply that, you know, keeping black people in servitude either literally or socially for 500 or so years kind of had an impact on their cultures view of white people. Simply put, when a white person starts saying racist crap you remind them of the events of the last half of the previous millennium.
    understood, but that still doesn't give them i right to get mad at me, because I didn't do all that crap for the last 500 years.

    once again........ you need to look at the individual, not the color of the skin.
    if they get mad at me for saying something ONLY because i'm white, and my white skin reminds them of the past.......then THEY are the ones looking at the color of skin and being racist.

    There is a double standard, but it's a fair one based on, you know, 500 years of screwing black people over. I guess in your mind people should ignore the historical precedent of white people acting racist in public being even more racist in private.
    imho, no double standard is fair, period.

    Why wouldn't the offensiveness of the joke matter in regard to being offended? That makes no sense at all.
    because not everyone has the same sense of humor. what might not offend one person, another will take MUCH offense too.
    you never know how much your joke will offend someone.
    that's why i said "what matters is that he seemed to think it was "ok" to be offensive to whites, but when someone was offensive to HIS race he got mad."

    if he's allowed to be offensive (doesn't matter what the EXACT joke is) towards whites, but nobody is allowed to be offensive towards his race..........then that's a hypocrite. i'm not sure how you don't see this.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 07-20-2011 at 11:09 AM.

  3. #78
    There's nothing new Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000 has a reputation beyond repute Manhattan_Project_2000's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    How do you remember 500 years of history you didn't experience? History isn't taught with shock therapy (yet). It's pretty reasonable for people who weren't oppressed not to be bitter about oppression they know on a second hand basis. Idiots who spew white guilt enable bitterness and double standards.
    While I'm sure you were raised in a vacuum, the rest of us were raised by our parents, and their life experience influenced how they raised us. If you are angry about how you were treated, chances are your children will be too.

    Also, nice strawman with the white guilt jab. I've been saying that double standards are unfair but understandable, and suddenly I'm afflicted with "white guilt".

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanromml View Post
    Oh? Well, it appears I didn't knew the meaning of the word...in my language it refers to something else.
    Anyway, what are your thoughts? I can see your sceptical. Oh, and the image was from my pc and the name was the one I created when uploading it on imageshack.
    If the skull of a Attractive and Successful African American indeed looks like that, and to my knowledge it does, then it's something big, eh?
    Phrenology is well known to be a pseudoscience, it has never been able to be used to make predictions about intelligence, it's simply used ad hoc to justify the "scientist" preconceptions.

    Einstein is probably one of the smartest people in history, but had a brain and skull of normal size. Discuss.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    However the majority of Black Americans today have not been treated with extreme racist attitudes. You've got a rat reacting to something it hasn't felt.
    Ahh, but confirmation bias rears it's ugly head. If you are raised by your parents to believe white people are racist (either actively, or more likely passively) you are more likely to assume every white person crossing the street is doing it to get away from you and every job you didn't get was because of your skin color.

    You'd have to know something to forget it, and let's be realistic: Most youth today are receiving absolutely deplorable history lessons. I'm guessing that Americans in general have an understandable reason to make fun of the British too?
    I don't think it's really possible, regardless of education standards, for a black person in American schools to avoid the Civil War, the slave trade, or the 1960s as topics. They have a sort of relevancy that the War of 1812 lacks.

    As for American/British relations, they've kind of mellowed since we've had 150+ years of them buying our goods and us bailing them out of wars.


    Oh please, Europeans have grudges for any wrong done to them by a neighbouring country. Of which, have more to do with religion and royal skulduggery than race.
    I was talking mostly about world wars one and two and all the related raping and pillaging. They are still in the collective consciousness in a big way, unlike say the War of the Roses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauntlgrym View Post
    im not saying they should forget, they just shouldn't hold me (or others that didn't do it) accountable.
    That's the same thing. What are memories for if not to inform us on how we're supposed to act?
    how would you feel if your dad killed someone, and the courts decided to send you to jail for murder too, just because you were his offspring.
    This is one of those times when analogy fail due to several orders of magnitude. Yes, imprisoning you for your fathers crime would be a jerk move. No, not liking you because your people enslaved theirs isn't the same thing at all. Last I checked, people aren't required to like you until you give them a reason not to.

    understood, but that still doesn't give them i right to get mad at me, because I didn't do all that crap for the last 500 years.

    once again........ you need to look at the individual, not the color of the skin.
    if they get mad at me for saying something ONLY because i'm white, and my white skin reminds them of the past.......then THEY are the ones looking at the color of skin and being racist.
    Fair enough, you probably haven't enslaved people and/or forced them into poverty with unfair laws. However, if they don't know you it seems reasonable to assume you might be racist and act guarded towards the possibility.

    imho, no double standard is fair, period.
    In my humble opinion, talking about "fairness" in reguards to other peoples opinions in puerile. Almost no one makes "fair" opinions, they are informed by our past experiences.


    because not everyone has the same sense of humor. what might not offend one person, another will take MUCH offense too.
    you never know how much your joke will offend someone.
    that's why i said "what matters is that he seemed to think it was "ok" to be offensive to whites, but when someone was offensive to HIS race he got mad."
    And then I wondered aloud what joke about white people could possibly be as offensive to a white person as a Mexican joke is to a Mexican. The racial stigma against Mexicans is almost a 180 degree inversion of reality.

    if he's allowed to be offensive (doesn't matter what the EXACT joke is) towards whites, but nobody is allowed to be offensive towards his race..........then that's a hypocrite. i'm not sure how you don't see this.
    Being offended when people say mean things about you but not when you say largely impotent (as every caucasian joke I've ever heard is) isn't nessisarily hypocrisy, it's being self-centered. And as I indicated with that quoted passage, I don't really concider hypociasy to be the mortal sin most people do, because I don't take everyone's actions out of context to fit them to my preconceptions.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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  4. #79
    Senior Member Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym has a reputation beyond repute Gauntlgrym's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    That's the same thing. What are memories for if not to inform us on how we're supposed to act?
    ever heard the phrase "two wrongs don't make a right"??
    just because they were mistreated in the past, doesn't give them a right to mistreat others now.

    This is one of those times when analogy fail due to several orders of magnitude. Yes, imprisoning you for your fathers crime would be a jerk move. No, not liking you because your people enslaved theirs isn't the same thing at all.
    sure it is! it's the same because they are both unjustified.
    what "my people" did 500 years ago has NOTHING to do with me. just as you father killing someone has NOTHING to do with you.

    Last I checked, people aren't required to like you until you give them a reason not to.
    and last i check people shouldn't DISlike you until you give them a reason not to either

    However, if they don't know you it seems reasonable to assume you might be racist
    what?!?!? r u kidding???
    lemme get this straight.........it's reasonable for others to assume i'm a racist towards them, just because i'm not there race???

    either you were kidding, or i misunderstood you, or you are delusional.

    In my humble opinion, talking about "fairness" in regards to other peoples opinions in puerile. Almost no one makes "fair" opinions, they are informed by our past experiences.
    saying they are being a hypocrite is not an opinion, it's a fact.
    the idea "do as i say not as i do" is hypocrisy by definition. it's not my opinion that they are being hypocritical. they ARE being hypocritical......and hypocrisy is not fair.

    And then I wondered aloud what joke about white people could possibly be as offensive to a white person as a Mexican joke is to a Mexican. The racial stigma against Mexicans is almost a 180 degree inversion of reality.
    as i said before. it's not about if joke A is 100% as offensive as joke B.
    it's about other races thinking it's ok to insult white people as much as they want, but white people can't insult them. AND if they do insult them in any way, then BAM they are automatically a racist.

    ok let me give you another example with no massively offensive words, like the N word.

    back person says to white person- "you are just a dumb white boy"...... now this is not considered racist, and is generally ok as far as insults go.
    white person says to black person-"you are just a dumb black boy"..... now this IS considered racist, and the white guy that said it, is now a racist.

    don't you see the absurd double standard there???

    Being offended when people say mean things about you but not when you say largely impotent (as every caucasian joke I've ever heard is) isn't necessarily hypocrisy, it's being self-centered. And as I indicated with that quoted passage, I don't really consider hypocrisy to be the mortal sin most people do, because I don't take everyone's actions out of context to fit them to my preconceptions.
    well that's fine if you don't think hypocrisy is all that bad, but I do!
    hypocrisy gets me more mad than just about anything else. it truly offends me.

    .....but, to each his own.
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 07-21-2011 at 03:50 PM.

  5. #80
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    Default Re: Why Do we still have racism? The Famous "N" Word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    While I'm sure you were raised in a vacuum, the rest of us were raised by our parents, and their life experience influenced how they raised us. If you are angry about how you were treated, chances are your children will be too.
    My parents have had to face rough times in their life, but it's not understandable for me to internalize that pain and be bitter towards the perpetrators as if I were the victim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    Also, nice strawman with the white guilt jab. I've been saying that double standards are unfair but understandable, and suddenly I'm afflicted with "white guilt".
    How are you not enabling it by saying it's understandable and attempting to list mitigating circumstances?
    If I say it's understandable that Joe is racist because daddy told him scary stories about darkies, I would expect a jab.

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