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Thread: Oh, CRAPcom.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    You're not connecting the dots.
    What dots? It's a common practice and it's common knowledge a company, which Capcom is, will do anything to make a profit. And don't say it's to make up for what they'd lose in used games. That doesn't justify the way DLC currently works.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Honestly, Cappy's made a bit of a blunder here.

    I can understand wanted to prevent the resale of games, but this is going a bit far, and could alienate many potential customers. Not only that, I feel it could threaten to encourage piracy- I want to replay this game, ohwaitnopecan't, hmmm how to get around this, aha!, pirate it.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    What dots? It's a common practice and it's common knowledge a company, which Capcom is, will do anything to make a profit. And don't say it's to make up for what they'd lose in used games. That doesn't justify the way DLC currently works.
    thing is, the drawback from this means longer production time, and higher cost.

    look at fallout. if you added all the DLC to the orginial title, it'd be 80$, and would have been released long after it was supposed to.

    not that I'm saying I dislike the idea of adding DLC to the original, but still, partitioning it does have it's own benefits to the company and to the consumer.
    Last edited by Ericgamer1; 06-28-2011 at 10:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Thats pretty retarded :P
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    thing is, the drawback from this means longer production time, and higher cost.

    look at fallout. if you added all the DLC to the orginial title, it'd be 80$, and would have been released long after it was supposed to.

    not that I'm saying I dislike the idea of adding DLC to the original, but still, partitioning it does have it's own benefits to the company and to the consumer.
    I listed Fallout as an exception. Those are more like mini expansion packs. Which I'm fine with. Especially since those DLC weren't started during the development of the game. I was directing that at things that where either already on the disc or developed while the main game was developed with the intention of releasing it at launch. It's also directed at things like skins, etc. which shouldn't either be charged for or added to the game during production. I've seen skins particularly that go for five dollars for three. If you're going to charge at least be reasonable and sell it for a buck.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    http://kotaku.com/5816145/capcom-den...-forever-saves

    Well gee, an interesting development. At least Capcom agrees with my point of this having no effect on this game in particular, but they still don't explain their thinking behind the implementation of the idea. ^^;;

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    @GameGeeks
    i think you are getting DLC confused with the tactics developers are using to combat piracy.

    first off, yes..... dlc is kinda silly imo. if you buy a game at full price, then all the content should be there to start off with.
    other than map-pack type things that come out MONTHS later to increase profit and expand the game.

    however DLC has nothing to do with what the gaming industry is doing to combat piracy for online games.
    the online pass codes are not technically dlc. they ARE included with the game. the only time you need to DL the pass code, is if you buy a used game for a cheap price.
    tactics like this are 100% justifiable.
    why should you get to play a game, when the people that spent the time and money to make the game, get nothing for it??
    Last edited by Gauntlgrym; 06-28-2011 at 05:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    @Gauntlgrym How am I getting them mixed up? Things like securom are designed to combat piracy. Which failed and so will any anti-piracy methods they'd ever think up since 99% of the time it's cracked within a few hours after release. I'm even against things like map packs simply because the content to price ratio is way off. As for the code, why should I not be able to by a game used and with all its features? Well it's because it cost them nothing extra to produce another copy of a game. All it does is change hands. Lets use another example that takes the used game industry out of the equation. What happens if you decided to give over ownership of a game you don't want anymore to a friend. That friend should have full access to the game. These tactics are nothing more then petty maneuvers by companies.

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  12. #59
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    I can honestly see why you're a part of BlueAngel's fanclub; you're both a lot alike in that you don't care why or how you may be wrong.

    YOU are unneeded in this topic because you do not understand what you are arguing. You don't see why Capcom's previous methods (including DLC, on-disc and off) have been in an effort to bounce back from used game sales, you apparently don't see that they [used game sales] are a huge problem (as evidenced by your argument of "it takes no money to produce an extra copy of a game", which is not only wrong, it's completely irrelevant), and you don't see why DLC is priced as it is. While you may claim otherwise, you don't understand nearly a single thing being discussed here.

    So, what would you rather I do: fully explain to you that your arguments are irrelevant and nonsensical, or simply say that you're missing the point? Both of those are true, I promise.
    First, you don't read well do you?

    "If I'm wrong I'd like you to point out where."

    That quote kinda shows the opposite. I'm starting to think you read only what you want to hear. As for the club, it's just a silly thing and shouldn't be used as a point in an argument. I don't even think I've posted in it. I have her on MSN/YIM too, you want to use that as a point against me?

    And yes I do, I'd like to point you to the pre DLC era. Back when companies didn't have a problem with the used game market. Why wasn't there a need to bounce back from used game sales then? Why has it suddenly become an issue now?

    "it takes no money to produce an extra copy of a game"

    I didn't say that. And you missed the point there. I meant they're not producing another copy of the game since there isn't a need for one. All the game is doing is changing hands and I gave another example for that without the used game market. And it's completely relevant. And I do. I know a skin is not worth five bucks for three. At most a dollar per. All this is is a way for companies to make more money. That's what companies do. Make money. Do you really think they'd do something if it didn't make them money? DLC is a lucrative business. That's why companies do it. It's also why we get things like ports. It takes little effort and resources and provides plenty of profit.

    Oh and please give me a full detailed account of how I'm wrong and another dislike, please.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    First, you don't read well do you?

    "If I'm wrong I'd like you to point out where."

    That quote kinda shows the opposite. I'm starting to think you read only what you want to hear. As for the club, it's just a silly thing and shouldn't be used as a point in an argument. I don't even think I've posted in it. I have her on MSN/YIM too, you want to use that as a point against me?

    And yes I do, I'd like to point you to the pre DLC era. Back when companies didn't have a problem with the used game market. Why wasn't there a need to bounce back from used game sales then? Why has it suddenly become an issue now?

    "it takes no money to produce an extra copy of a game"

    I didn't say that. And you missed the point there. I meant they're not producing another copy of the game since there isn't a need for one. All the game is doing is changing hands and I gave another example for that without the used game market. And it's completely relevant. And I do. I know a skin is not worth five bucks for three. At most a dollar per. All this is is a way for companies to make more money. That's what companies do. Make money. Do you really think they'd do something if it didn't make them money? DLC is a lucrative business. That's why companies do it. It's also why we get things like ports. It takes little effort and resources and provides plenty of profit.

    Oh and please give me a full detailed account of how I'm wrong and another dislike, please.
    First of all, you did say that it costs nothing extra to produce another copy: http://i.imgur.com/8z3iX.png

    Secondly, let's start explaining how you're wrong with your arguments for "1 buck DLC". You are NOT the only entity gaining or losing money based on your purchases. You are directly helping to fund companies and, as a direct result, pay employees. DLC is priced over $1 to pay workers and fund projects; expecting low/free costs is terribly selfish and ignorant to where the funds are going.

    Now, as for your argument of "pre-DLC era something-or-other", there's an extremely easy answer to that that, for some reason, you've entirely missed.
    Think of the Playstation 2; a great system, sure, but it was unable to have DLC for various reasons and an internet connection was optional (in fact, most people never had an internet connection on their PS2s). Now, fast-forward a generation to the Xbox 360; what is the first innovation you should notice? Xbox-LIVE enabled. An easy-to-use internet connection right out of the box. The simple answer? DLC was unable to be used as a tactic for bouncing back in the pre-DLC era because there was no DLC.

    Used game sales have always been a problem, and are only increasing in their problematic nature. That is why companies are taking measures against them. It isn't just Capcom, either; take a look around you. Think about why things are as they are for more than 30 seconds before making an argument against me that completely misses the point. You aren't even arguing the 'forever-save' in games anymore, you're arguing the nature of DLC and it's pricepoint. Not only is it irrelevant to the topic, your arguments against it miss the purpose of DLC from a business perspective in the first place.

  14. #61
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    First of all, you did say that it costs nothing extra to produce another copy: http://i.imgur.com/8z3iX.png

    Secondly, let's start explaining how you're wrong with your arguments for "1 buck DLC". You are NOT the only entity gaining or losing money based on your purchases. You are directly helping to fund companies and, as a direct result, pay employees. DLC is priced over $1 to pay workers and fund projects; expecting low/free costs is terribly selfish and ignorant to where the funds are going.

    Now, as for your argument of "pre-DLC era something-or-other", there's an extremely easy answer to that that, for some reason, you've entirely missed.
    Think of the Playstation 2; a great system, sure, but it was unable to have DLC for various reasons and an internet connection was optional (in fact, most people never had an internet connection on their PS2s). Now, fast-forward a generation to the Xbox 360; what is the first innovation you should notice? Xbox-LIVE enabled. An easy-to-use internet connection right out of the box. The simple answer? DLC was unable to be used as a tactic for bouncing back in the pre-DLC era because there was no DLC.

    Used game sales have always been a problem, and are only increasing in their problematic nature. That is why companies are taking measures against them. It isn't just Capcom, either; take a look around you. Think about why things are as they are for more than 30 seconds before making an argument against me that completely misses the point. You aren't even arguing the 'forever-save' in games anymore, you're arguing the nature of DLC and it's pricepoint. Not only is it irrelevant to the topic, your arguments against it miss the purpose of DLC from a business perspective in the first place.
    First, that comment was me hassling you for not properly quoting me. And that pic just makes you look petty. Second, the one dollar DLC is directed at skins and map packs and I gave my reasoning for it before and wont do so again. And employee's make the same whether there's DLC or not. It's not like they're payed for the extra work they do on the DLC. They bring the same paycheck home every month. As such DLC are PROFIT for the companies as the people who make them don't see a dime from them outside their normal paycheck.

    Next paragraph. And you could have DLC on the PS2. Look at Oblivion. Bethsda had DLC for it on the XBox. All you'd need is to have the data stored on the memory card (hard drive in the XBox's case). Not to mention FFXI on the PS2 was able to have expansions. So something like DLC could be done. They'd just would have been sold on store shelves instead of downloaded.

    And again the next paragraph. And if they where always a problem you would have heard companies complaining about it before now. They haven't. It's only been the last few years that they have. If anything it can help companies as people can trade in used games for new ones. And how am I not thinking for more then thirty seconds? I gave you many examples for my reasoning. And no you miss the purpose of DLC from a business perspective. The perspective is PROFIT. And I haven't been arguing the forever save because we moved on to DLC. That's not DLC.

    I'll take another dislike please.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    No I do. It's a money tactic with content that used to come packaged with a game. Much of the time it's created before the game is even released and often released the same day the game is. Like you just payed $60 for that game, you need to pay an additional 6$ if you want all these skins that should have been packaged with the game. What I mean by the other 5% is things like Honest Hearts for New Vegas. DLC is nothing more then a way for companies to turn a $60 game, which is already way over priced in my opinion, and turn it into a $70/80 one.
    I do agree that they should be free, but at the same time they are pretty useless and it's only for complete fetish or fans of certain colors. Take BlazBlue as an example, like there's already 10+ color palettes included in the game. The game already is complete as it is and you wanting to play as light pink Noel is another story.

    You're not forced to buy the skins and your game is not incomplete without them. You don't need them to be kicking noob's donkey.


    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    http://kotaku.com/5816145/capcom-den...-forever-saves

    Well gee, an interesting development. At least Capcom agrees with my point of this having no effect on this game in particular, but they still don't explain their thinking behind the implementation of the idea. ^^;;
    Well thank god!


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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Also, @UmJammerEri , please don't be telling which member is useless or not in a thread I made. As a matter of fact, whether is my thread is not, you have no right to tell someone that they are useless on the discussion.

    @GameGeeks To be honest some DLC is good as a good expansion of the game. For example, extra chapters to the game. Like in L.A Noire, they are just extra cases that doesn't influence the main story. We can also consider the Liberty Episodes for GTAIV, they more of expansions so people enjoy their game and they are also games of their own. So yeah, some DLC should be already part of the game as some are expansion to please the fan's hunger for more content of a good game.


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  17. #64
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    @Shinichi Chapters are fine, those would fall under what I said about Fallout. My issue is only with skins and the like.

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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    @Shinichi Chapters are fine, those would fall under what I said about Fallout. My issue is only with skins and the like.
    EDIT: @UmJammerEri Again, not reading properly. I said the XBox for the DLC. And it was released on disc which proves my point that it could have been done sooner. And no it wasn't as you couldn't download anything online via an original XBox. Not the 360.

  19. #66
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    So, using a system that was able to do DLC as an example in a discussion of systems in the pre-DLC era is a great point to raise? Huh.



    You're right, you can't put facts on future predictions; that's why your predictions don't matter. It's hearsay. It's conjecture. It's untrue. Another thing that's laughable is your continued arguments that used game sales aren't damaging the industry (that you, by your own admission, have little understanding for). And haven't you gotten in trouble for trolling and rep intimidation before? You sure like that.
    BOTH systems had the capabilities to do DLC. Only one I don't think could was the GameCube. It just wasn't done. I think Bethsda was the only one that did it. Could be wrong about that but either way it's a really small number if there where others that did. And I gave an example how used games sales could help developers. Yet you ignored that. Good job on that.

  20. #67
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    EDIT: @UmJammerEri Again, not reading properly. I said the XBox for the DLC. And it was released on disc which proves my point that it could have been done sooner. And no it wasn't as you couldn't download anything online via an original XBox. Not the 360.
    I don't know if I understand your post correctly but by DLC on disc you mean the GOTY Editions like for Fallout 3 or Borderlands? If so, the DLCs were still made after the game and they are just a marketing strategy to get you to buy the game at the price of one. Basically still paying 60 bucks for the game but getting all the DLC free, or just add the prices of the DLC and lower the price of the original game..Kinda like what Capcom did with SSFIV AE.

    nevermind....

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    Don't be so pretentious. This is your topic, but NOT your discussion. You can't 'own' a discussion on a public forum; it belongs to everyone. Not to mention, I was told that I was useless to the conversation first; at least direct your pretentious statements to the correct person or all parties involved.
    Yes, a topic that it might get closed knowing Eric.

    And he said you aren't proving your point, but you kept telling him that he's wrong.And you also in the other hand told him he was useless on the discussion.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 06-28-2011 at 08:09 PM.


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  21. #68
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    I don't get it; how can anyone be this dense? Okay, let me try to be as clear as I possibly can for you.

    Facts are true statements, right? "True" means "correct", "logically accurate". If you can't put facts into predictions, how are you correct? How is it my fault that you aren't correct? Why blame me when your arguments and predictions are completely and totally devoid of logic and truth?
    Then you're statement about it not possibly advancing to other games is untrue. After all it's just a prediction on your part that it wont.

  22. #69
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Then you're statement about it not possibly advancing to other games is untrue. After all it's just a prediction on your part that it wont.
    Of course, it's all just conjecture and rumor. No one can really say what will happen in the future, after all. I originally entered this discussion with the intent to prove that not only was this particular title not ruined by the implementation of this poor 'forever-save' idea because of the chess-like nature of the game, but trying to say that this idea will be implemented across the spectrum was a waste of time. Instead of arguing that, we should be rallying to the cause of objecting to it's future implementation. Agreed?

  23. #70
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    I don't get it; how can anyone be this dense? Okay, let me try to be as clear as I possibly can for you.

    Facts are true statements, right? "True" means "correct", "logically accurate". If you can't put facts into predictions, how are you correct? How is it my fault that you aren't correct? Why blame me when your arguments and predictions are completely and totally devoid of logic and truth?
    Just so you know, a discussion =/= debate. A discussion can contain both facts and opinions.

    Blueangel stated her opinion, which she's allowed to make...and an opinion is an untruth statement thus you can't prove an opinion with facts. She is neither right or wrong, simple as that.


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  25. #71
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinichi View Post
    Just so you know, a discussion =/= debate. A discussion can contain both facts and opinions.

    Blueangel stated her opinion, which she's allowed to make...and an opinion is an untruth statement thus you can't prove an opinion with facts. She is neither right or wrong, simple as that.
    Which is all good and well, but recall that my debate with her occurred over her statements that the sale of used games isn't damaging the industry.

  26. #72
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    Of course, it's all just conjecture and rumor. No one can really say what will happen in the future, after all. I originally entered this discussion with the intent to prove that not only was this particular title not ruined by the implementation of this poor 'forever-save' idea because of the chess-like nature of the game, but trying to say that this idea will be implemented across the spectrum was a waste of time. Instead of arguing that, we should be rallying to the cause of objecting to it's future implementation. Agreed?
    First I'd like to point out the glorious device known as an Action Replay. One little code and brand new start. And the issue at hand now is the way you go about your arguments. You come off as very one sided and outright refusing to look at the other side and just claim, "You're wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And I'm going to ignore you since my point of view is the only correct one.". And I'll tell you now. I wont let up on you if you continue to pull this crap.

  27. #73
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    First I'd like to point out the glorious device known as an Action Replay. One little code and brand new start. And the issue at hand now is the way you go about your arguments. You come off as very one sided and outright refusing to look at the other side and just claim, "You're wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And I'm going to ignore you since my point of view is the only correct one.". And I'll tell you now. I wont let up on you if you continue to pull this crap.
    I don't ask anyone to go easy on me. I've been doing pretty well with this two-on-one shtick, too.

    Also, have they released an Action Replay for the 3DS yet? I hadn't heard anything about that, I don't think.

  28. #74
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    I don't ask anyone to go easy on me. I've been doing pretty well with this two-on-one shtick, too.

    Also, have they released an Action Replay for the 3DS yet? I hadn't heard anything about that, I don't think.
    Apparently you haven't if what @Shinichi said is true about Eric. And not yet but give it a bit of time and it will be.

  29. #75
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    Default Re: Oh, CRAPcom.

    Quote Originally Posted by UmJammerEri View Post
    Which is all good and well, but recall that my debate with her occurred over her statements that the sale of used games isn't damaging the industry.
    http://kotaku.com/5802953/fables-cre...se-than-piracy

    To prove your point. That's the only thing I agree with you.

    @GameGeeks Well he did closed a similar discussion about this when it got heated up a bit, just like this thread so better cool down things.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 06-28-2011 at 08:21 PM.


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