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Yes
No
Other (Comment on thread please)
It really is hard for me to believe you people are real. I've met many old moonies who were not so emotionally unstable and into such synthetic bull honky. I cannot help it that my opinion differs, but your abusive and aggressive reactions have been.. Clearly unreasonable, as I am allowed to express my opinions in the fashion that I choose within regulations of the rules.
It is not my fault that I will not take uneducated (within a specific field) people seriously. If I were asked an opinion on some kind of medical research I would not pretend to be a doctor. It really is kind of surprising that some of you would go thus far that that one or two valid points were even made (by yay and kyky) and the rest were simply meant to tear another down.
Anime, the next time you want to have a serious discussion about a subject, take it to the right forum. This was a huge waste of time and space of anime forum dot com and all of it's members. Except for the ones who at one time learned two instruments, the suddenly made up the fact that they already knew another two instruments, both of which are much more difficult to learn and plan but would withhold such information for whatever reason in order to make themselves look food? Who cares.
Thank you for enlightening us video game instrument player to all of the sudden viola player. You obviously know what you're talking about. And key words apparently mean a lot to you people.
computrz r obv srs instruments 2 mak muzik
Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-05-2011 at 12:35 AM.
We're not. @Aeschylus and I had different opinions and we were civil about it. It's just your attitude that people have been taking issue with. You come off as quite arrogant and whiny. You refuse to acknowledge any other viewpoint other then yours and yet claim everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Last edited by GameGeeks; 06-05-2011 at 12:40 AM.
Yes, of course.
Do any of these questions actually matter? No.
I don't understand how people can argue about the definition of words. The purpose of words is to allow us to communicate, not to tell is what is good and bad. Stop giving words definitions to force some ideology on others.
If at the end of the day you enjoy a Vocaloid song, why does any of this matter? Are you a Luddite?
Looks like you guys are having trouble, so I'll help clear things up, complete with visual aid!
Proposition 1: All music is art
But Cantelope! That's too radical and liberal for me to stomach! If I accept this proposition then that means I have to accept Rebecca Black as an artist; NO DEAL.
Alas, just because you don't like the things a certain person or object produces, does not invalidate them as an artist. This is obvious, but let me help you accept this by first asking you to entertain the definition of art with me.
The English Oxford dictionary defines art as
That's right, THE authority on the English language defines art as anything produced to be appreciated. Music is obviously a subset within this definition, dealing with works produced via sound.The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power
Corollary: Art and music are made by something, this something being artists and musicians respectively
and don't worry about Rebecca Black, just because you have to accept her as an artist doesn't mean you have to accept her as a particularly GOOD one
This means our diagram for art looks something like this:
Proposition 2: The crap generated by the Vocaloid program is music
But Cantelope! Music has to be sounds that are made by musical instruments like pianos and stuff! Also, wth omg y u say crap Vocaloid sounds sooooo gud kawaiidesu!
You're exactly right with (the first part of) that sentence my dear, but is not the Vocaloid program itself an instrument? An instrument is something that you use to produce an end; in the case of music, an instrument is something that one (a musician) uses to produce sounds. We see acts like the Blue Man Group making music with garbage cans and pots, but a program that generates sound is not an instrument?! What kind of duality is this?!
But Cantelope, garbage cans and pots are REAL and computer programs aren't! They're just a bunch of electrons sitting on the surface of a magnetic disk or something!
My dear! Alack, ye hast fallen into the great pit-trap! No where does it say that an instrument must be macroscopically physical to be considered an instrument.
Also, the entire genre of Electronica considers those fighting words
P.S. Even a piano, guitar, etc. is composed entirely of quanta that we call elementary particles, which is just a packet of ENERGY homygodnothingisreal
So let's review the attributes of the Vocaloid program:
-Through manipulation, it produces sounds.
Wait a minute, it's a tool that's used to produce sounds...this makes it...an INSTRUMENT; OH MY GOD, an instrument which produces MUSIC!
And for simplicity's sake, let us call this the genre of sounds produced by this Vocaloid program: Vocaloid, in the same manner that Classical Guitar exists as a genre.
So music and its genres look like this:
So, with an ounce of reading comprehension and a quick perusal of the dictionary, we see that we can only arrive at
Conclusion: Vocaloid is art
Albeit bad art
Last edited by Cantelope; 06-05-2011 at 01:17 AM. Reason: cleaning up
Wio, remember that one time when you told Ashley and I that you would never hired a black man or woman to work for you because they were lazy and ignorant? We sure do, and so do the logs.
Dan Dan The Math Man, I am going to avoid your post because I am drunk and vulnerable and I'm afraid of you taking advantage of me.
You can hear it, dance to it and sing the songs yourself. So, yes of course it is music.
Nesh (nɛʃ) dialect adj. - sensitive to the cold
Set made by me
''Do your best, no matter how many times you fail!.''
"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination". So if someone doesn't use either creative skill or imagination it's not art? Cus you know Rebbecca Black didn't write that song and the person that did heavily "borrowed" from other pop tunes. Why exactly is she an artist(even a terrible one)?
Awesome Ad Hominem broski. Confirmed for troll.
As for Vocaloid as art? I've never used the program so I don't know how much of the "It requires no skill" is true. Any Vocaloid songs I have heard sound very unimaginative but I've only heard about 3 or 4. I'm sure someone somewhere has take the program and cut and spliced it in such a way that makes it art.
This is a Sig. It's horribly out of date.
It would be a huge waste of time to learn theory if you weren't going to learn how to play an instrument. :P And yes, I skim over post because I don't really care what you have to say; and it's also quite clear you've ignored or failed to understand the position I took from the very beginning. It's not art. It's a product. It is not going to change the world, and no one will care about it once the fad fades away. You've also chosen to ignore that I'm not the only one who's posted here that feels that way.
You're all responsible, mature adults, right? You do know you're wasting your time, right?
Ah, children. How I've missed Misc forum and it's undeserving sense of grandeur.
Well, this 'fad' has lasted for seven years now. And if you want any indication of whether it's going to last, here.
できねぇ時?
そん時ゃ諸共心中だよ
You know...I'm sorta new here....and stuff.....but well...I was bored and read the entire conversation you had with the rest and..you're the only one who's acting immature.It would be a huge waste of time to learn theory if you weren't going to learn how to play an instrument. :P And yes, I skim over post because I don't really care what you have to say; and it's also quite clear you've ignored or failed to understand the position I took from the very beginning. It's not art. It's a product. It is not going to change the world, and no one will care about it once the fad fades away. You've also chosen to ignore that I'm not the only one who's posted here that feels that way.
You're all responsible, mature adults, right? You do know you're wasting your time, right?
Ah, children. How I've missed Misc forum and it's undeserving sense of grandeur.
Lighten up, Francis.
And I don't think seven years of no one in the need-to-know having even heard of it should really count.
Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-05-2011 at 08:48 AM. Reason: mynamesnotfrancisitspsycho!!!!111
[CENTER]You're all n00bs to me.[CENTER]
^ lol wat a noub
I am not a troll.
well, partner, the doors of animeforum are open (for you to go in and out), why don't ya try taking this issue on a music forum? yeah, you're right, probably most posters don't even know how to play the guitar, flute or whatever (I, for one, can't play) so for you to be "serious," go to a music forum.
but I'll spell out the thing we were saying most of the time... "W-A-T-C-H Y-O-U-R A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E" or this will no doubt happen to you again. just looking out for ya brother, ya got my respect for standing up to such adversity, not many can do that. but just watch your words next time, alright?
Truth is a thing which only appears to those who have observed, considered, and made a choice. At the end of the path you chose lies the truth...Believe in it and continue without faltering.
Art is in the eye of the beholder. Whether or not something is art is subjective. In other words, this vocaloid business can--depending on who listens to it--both be art, and not be art; at the same time (and this is not a contradiction). You might as well be arguing about whether Coca Cola tastes better than Pepsi.
As for whether something computer generated can be art, you may want to consider the following widely accepted branches of art:
Last edited by Eris; 06-05-2011 at 10:57 AM.
Hey look, Japan made a movie about me!
But then it wouldn't be any fun at all. If I really cared, I would take it to a music forum, but I don't give a good god damn. Anime was QQing in chat, and it spilled over onto the forum. More entertainment for me.
Once you get to know me, you'll begin to understand.
---
Erised, all of that takes more effort than a vocaloid program. The point is that a child (anime aka Xey) could use it and produce the same quality product as the stuff you buy in... Uh, on the internet, or wherever you buy this crap.
The examples you posted all look like cheap Ikea pillow patterns or generic wall papers for phones. I guess that's kind of cool?
Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-05-2011 at 10:00 AM. Reason: animeisafib
[CENTER]You're all n00bs to me.[CENTER]
^ lol wat a noub
I am not a troll.
well, you should take it to a music forum, it's good to talk to peers. For example, if I have some issues with the hydraulics of a certain elevator design, I'll ask a colleague or an expert in hydraulics. simple, right? just so the issue can be brought to an end and solved right away. It ain't gonna be "good entertainment" if the the elevator fails and kills all its passengers, right?
same concept for you, if you just talked to your peers, you wouldn't have been flamed and bad-repped.
anyhow, I'm done with this thread.
Whether Vocaloid is music or not, everyone has their own insights. One famous musician said it's "music" but not impressive, it's HIS point of view. People have their own tastes and their own minds, no use in trying to convince other people otherwise.
A debate is good but it's gonna be a waste of time if you're talking to a blockhead.
Last edited by Souji Seta; 06-05-2011 at 10:10 AM.
Truth is a thing which only appears to those who have observed, considered, and made a choice. At the end of the path you chose lies the truth...Believe in it and continue without faltering.
Uh, my musician friends back home are my peers. I don't need to go to a forum to talk to other people who enjoy what I do. ^_^
And actually, it's only funny -if- the elevator falls and kills everyone, so says Mel Brooks.
And and and why do you think it bothers me to get flamed and bad repped? I -do- know how to be civil. Don't act like I don't know why you're reacting the way you are. ^_^ I go to school for it. Also, I already have friends here. o___O I'm not out to brown nose.
Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-05-2011 at 10:18 AM. Reason: anime<3'syoona
[CENTER]You're all n00bs to me.[CENTER]
^ lol wat a noub
I am not a troll.
hehehe, oh man, you remind me when I was 12 years old I acted almost exactly like ya. You're an interesting guy. At first I got irritated with you taking things too literally but then I remembered how I used to be, had a LOL moment, hehe.
well, I guess I'll see ya around partner.
Last edited by Souji Seta; 06-05-2011 at 10:40 AM.
Truth is a thing which only appears to those who have observed, considered, and made a choice. At the end of the path you chose lies the truth...Believe in it and continue without faltering.
Certainly there was a very very small amount of imagination and skill involved in writing Friday. Can you imagine anything that requires no imagination or skill to create? I can't, other than plagiarized works.
On that note, Black uses her vocal chords to make music, which is a subset of art. Musicians are a subset of things within the set of artists. Black makes music, therefore Black is a musician. Therefore, Black is an artist.
Well, just to clarify, I do believe that noise created from something outside of the purpose of entertainment, would not be music. i.e. a collection of noises whose sole purpose is to mentally tax/ torture someone.
Really? Well then, why don't we look back, and see what you said...
So art can't be a product? Art must change the world? Art is a constant? Contact the newspapers! There are thousands of paintings, songs, and performances that are no longer art!
And Mr.Gjallarhorn used one of your arguments as his own. We can't attack his argument because it simply isn't there. He, also, did not act like a whiny twelve-year-old when people did not agree with him.
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