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View Poll Results: Is Vocaloid Music?

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Thread: Is Vocaloid Music?

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  1. #1
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    Default Is Vocaloid Music?

    Thread inspired by a conversation Blue Footed Booby and I were discussing. Anyways he says Vocaloid is not music because it's not made by humans. However I find what he is saying completely idiotic, the voices are provided by humans, the instruments are played by humans (in live concerts), and humans make the songs. Anyways discuss~

    EDIT: Side question: Is it art?
    Last edited by galaco; 06-04-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Anime you always misconstrue situations. We were arguing about whether or not it was art, not music.


    And the reason no one posts in music is because no one here knows a damn thing about it. //2



    kk there's the quote you forgot to c/p.
    Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-04-2011 at 08:06 PM. Reason: animehasnoimagination

  3. #3
    Senior Member galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco has a reputation beyond repute galaco's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Anime you always misconstrue situations. We were arguing about whether or not it was art, not music.


    And the reason no one posts in music is because no one here knows a damn thing about it. //2



    kk there's the quote you forgot to c/p.
    We were talking about it being music and then you changed it to art when you started to figure out you were wrong, anyways it's art.

    " The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

    Humans have to have creativity to create those songs, they didn't just pop out of thin air.
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    You're only partially correct about the voices. It uses voice sampling. I.e. just different sounds and not complete words. And if people can get famous using auto tune to hell I don't see why Vocaloid can't be considered music. Besides there's two other way you can look at it. The program can be considered an instrument itself like a guitar or piano or similar to what music samplers do.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Yeah they do. I've been youtubing. This is all incredibly easy stuff to write. Music is math, and these songs are like 2+2. Not very impressive.

    And as I told you in chat, you were being trolled. o_O
    Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-04-2011 at 08:14 PM. Reason: animedoesn'tknowwhattimeitis

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Yeah they do. I've been youtubing. This is all incredibly easy stuff to write. Music is math, and these songs are like 2+2. Not very impressive.

    And as I told you in chat, you were being trolled. o_O
    Sure I was. e_e
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    The question is inherently dishonest.
    What exactly are you really asking here?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Anyone who says Vocaloid music is not true music cannot be my friend. Also, saying that music must be made by humans is quite arrogant in my opinion. I consider even things like bird chirping and tree rustling music.

    As for the question of whether or not it's art... Hmm, just about anything can be considered a form of art, some good, some bad. I guess, yes? But regarding this question I'll perfectly okay if someone says it's not art, since my concept of art is kinda muddy.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    You made a forum post about it, Anime. //2 Mission accomplished!

    ---------- Post added at 05:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    Anyone who says Vocaloid music is not true music cannot be my friend. Also, saying that music must be made by humans is quite arrogant in my opinion. I consider even things like bird chirping and tree rustling music.

    As for the question of whether or not it's art... Hmm, just about anything can be considered a form of art, some good, some bad. I guess, yes? But regarding this question I'll perfectly okay if someone says it's not art, since my concept of art is kinda muddy.

    Computers are not living entities.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Computers are not living entities.
    No, but the people who use them are. No different then a guitar.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Computers are not living entities.
    So you're saying that only living entities can produce music?

    Guess what, I don't know about other cultures, but in East Asian culture at least, many natural sounds not produced by living organisms can also be considered music, especially since they have a greater fondness for the nature and Daoism. For example, the sound of a waterfall hitting on the rocks can be music, a gust of wind blowing through a narrow valley can be music, the sound of a rainfall can be music, etc. Modern instruments are merely more complex derivatives of those primitive forms of sounds.

    From a different angle, what's so different between a person who produces music with a violin and a person who produces music with a computer program?

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    So you're saying that only living entities can produce music?

    Guess what, I don't know about other cultures, but in East Asian culture at least, many natural sounds not produced by living organisms can also be considered music, especially since they have a greater fondness for the nature and Daoism. For example, the sound of a waterfall hitting on the rocks can be music, a gust of wind blowing through a narrow valley can be music, the sound of a rainfall can be music, etc. Modern instruments are merely more complex derivatives of those primitive forms of sounds.

    From a different angle, what's so different between a person who produces music with a violin and a person who produces music with a computer program?
    That's a natural setting and something of nature creating said 'music'. Computers are synthetic and cynical. There is nothing beautiful about the sound of a keyboard of the click of a mouse... Unless you're a huge goddamn nerd.

    Aeschylus, you're being way too literal and I hope you understand that the 'music' created by these programs is no better or different than the music Brittany Spears produces(except that's not true because Brittany actually sings the lyrics//2,) if you look at it from the perspective of someone who understand Music Theory. Art comes from an individuals interpretation of something, whatever it may be. If you opened the program and threw a three chord chord progression down in a 4/4 time signature, and then opened a new project and did the same time it would turn out exactly the same. Take out a guitar and do the same thing. Listen to both tracks and neither one will sound the same(unless you don't have an ear and don't understand what the word subtle means.)

    Techno is redundant, and so is vocaloid, for the exact same reason. It takes out the human element, no actual human effort when into producing those sounds and beats and whatnot. It does not come off as if an individual created the song. There is no emotion. If you would prefer to stick to your computerized clinics, and dance to your synthetic band for superior cynics then by all means, go ahead, but most musicians do not really take it seriously.

    But it's okay!!111 You don't have to fret. Some people just don't have standards and you can't blame them for that. It's societies fault. O_O
    ---

    The foundation of music is math, but there needs to be that human element to really move people. A midi of Stairway to Heaven (and I hate Led Zeppelin) without the sloppy guitar work of Jimmy Page and the raspy I need to quit smoking vocals of Robert Plant would not at all have been as successful.

    Vocaloid is a product. It's three chord 4/4 pop music. It's a manipulative way to get people to give you money. It works -really- well on people who don't understand what they're listening to.

    Which, I assume is all of you. //2
    Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-04-2011 at 10:35 PM. Reason: animesucksatlife

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    the 'music' created by these programs is no better or different than the music Brittany Spears produces(except that's not true because Brittany actually sings the lyrics//2,) if you look at it from the perspective of someone who understand Music Theory.
    ......
    Vocaloid is a product. It's three chord 4/4 pop music. It's a manipulative way to get people to give you money. It works -really- well on people who don't understand what they're listening to.
    I'm sorry, as much as I want and try to respect everyone's opinion, that is the last straw. You're saying we don't understand music because we are not fluent in music theory like you, which is fine since you seem to be more conversed in the field of music theory as well as the mathematical and physical theories behind it.

    However, I cannot accept your statement that Vocaloid is merely a money-making tool. Now just what do you know about Volcaoid!? I am emotionally involved with many Volcaoid songs, and I appreciate them a lot more that your music theory-based "classical" songs. Do you have any idea how disrespectful you are being to the Vocaloid producers and fans, as well as those involved with other forms of non-traditional music?

    Just because you prefer your form of music, doesn't mean you can claim everyone else's preferences not music.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Aeschylus, you're being way too literal and I hope you understand that the 'music' created by these programs is no better or different than the music Brittany Spears produces(except that's not true because Brittany actually sings the lyrics//2,) if you look at it from the perspective of someone who understand Music Theory.
    If it is not different then it is still art. Knowing music theory doesn't change what music is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Art comes from an individuals interpretation of something, whatever it may be.
    It seems that we've discovered carnivorous predators. Why are you arguing about something so completely subjective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    If you opened the program and threw a three chord chord progression down in a 4/4 time signature, and then opened a new project and did the same time it would turn out exactly the same. Take out a guitar and do the same thing. Listen to both tracks and neither one will sound the same(unless you don't have an ear and don't understand what the word subtle means.)
    Your point being? Music made with a program sounds different than music made with real instruments. We're not going to get very far if you're just going to state what is obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Techno is redundant, and so is vocaloid, for the exact same reason. It takes out the human element, no actual human effort when into producing those sounds and beats and whatnot. It does not come off as if an individual created the song. There is no emotion. If you would prefer to stick to your computerized clinics, and dance to your synthetic band for superior cynics then by all means, go ahead, but most musicians do not really take it seriously.
    How is techno redundant if people are not directly playing music? That doesn't even make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    But it's okay!!111 You don't have to fret. Some people just don't have standards and you can't blame them for that. It's societies fault. O_O
    ---
    Standards play into this how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    The foundation of music is math, but there needs to be that human element to really move people. A midi of Stairway to Heaven (and I hate Led Zeppelin) without the sloppy guitar work of Jimmy Page and the raspy I need to quit smoking vocals of Robert Plant would not at all have been as successful.
    There are human elements in techno, it doesn't just pop into existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Vocaloid is a product. It's three chord 4/4 pop music. It's a manipulative way to get people to give you money. It works -really- well on people who don't understand what they're listening to.
    Vocaloid is a program, which is sold as a product. Again, obvious. However, being 3 cord 4/4 pop music, which is music, doesn't mean it is not art. Also, anything sold is a manipulative way to make money.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    Yes, and? It is a program that writes music; a guitar is not music, neither is a piano or a human's ability to vocalize sound.

    Music written by Vocaloid is art in the same way as all other music. You can't call something music, and then turn around and not call it art. All music is art, but not all art is music.
    It both writes and plays the music. And Lets look at the piano. What of those self playing pianos? I don't mean electronic ones but ones that had a music like device? Is that not music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    That's a natural setting and something of nature creating said 'music'. Computers are synthetic and cynical. There is nothing beautiful about the sound of a keyboard of the click of a mouse... Unless you're a huge goddamn nerd.

    Aeschylus, you're being way too literal and I hope you understand that the 'music' created by these programs is no better or different than the music Brittany Spears produces(except that's not true because Brittany actually sings the lyrics//2,) if you look at it from the perspective of someone who understand Music Theory. Art comes from an individuals interpretation of something, whatever it may be. If you opened the program and threw a three chord chord progression down in a 4/4 time signature, and then opened a new project and did the same time it would turn out exactly the same. Take out a guitar and do the same thing. Listen to both tracks and neither one will sound the same(unless you don't have an ear and don't understand what the word subtle means.)

    Techno is redundant, and so is vocaloid, for the exact same reason. It takes out the human element, no actual human effort when into producing those sounds and beats and whatnot. It does not come off as if an individual created the song. There is no emotion. If you would prefer to stick to your computerized clinics, and dance to your synthetic band for superior cynics then by all means, go ahead, but most musicians do not really take it seriously.

    But it's okay!!111 You don't have to fret. Some people just don't have standards and you can't blame them for that. It's societies fault. O_O
    ---

    The foundation of music is math, but there needs to be that human element to really move people. A midi of Stairway to Heaven (and I hate Led Zeppelin) without the sloppy guitar work of Jimmy Page and the raspy I need to quit smoking vocals of Robert Plant would not at all have been as successful.

    Vocaloid is a product. It's three chord 4/4 pop music. It's a manipulative way to get people to give you money. It works -really- well on people who don't understand what they're listening to.

    Which, I assume is all of you. //2
    You're right, it does come down to interpretation. And no one's interpretation is any less valid then anothers. It's not redundant. You're just looking at it at the singer aspect when it could be looked at like an instrument. Which it is. And I don't see how it lacks the human element. If done right is sounds a lot more natural then say Ke$ha or Katie Perry who use auto tune like crazy. And then there's bands that add effects to voices to get a techno effect. What about those? Do those lack the human element? And go watch a documentary on YouTube about what goes into a Miku concert. There's plenty of people working on it. From the animation to the effects. If anything it has multiple human elements since people put a lot of care and effort into them. Think of Vocaloid as an instrument, not as a person. Since that's what it is. A tool, just like a guitar or a violin. Only makes sense such tools will evolve with technology. Just look at electric guitars. Or the self playing piano I mentioned earlier. Is that piano not creating music? There's no human involved.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    It both writes and plays the music. And Lets look at the piano. What of those self playing pianos? I don't mean electronic ones but ones that had a music like device? Is that not music?
    You don't understand, a piano is not music. A piano, the musical instrument, is not sounds waves to which we interpret as music. One object (the piano) is not the idea (music).

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Or the self playing piano I mentioned earlier. Is that piano not creating music? There's no human involved.
    Do you mean one of the pianos where you put a CD in and it plays music? I've yet to see a piano that actually creates music...

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Much different than a guitar. The programs they use to produce this music are really easy to use. They do not require years of practice to get good with. You could do it, easily. Guitar/Piano/real instruments take a lifetime of dedication, pointing and clicking does not. It's no more difficult than replying to this post.

    I know this because I use said programs, and play many instruments.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Footed Booby View Post
    Much different than a guitar. The programs they use to produce this music are really easy to use. They do not require years of practice to get good with. You could do it, easily. Guitar/Piano/real instruments take a lifetime of dedication, pointing and clicking does not. It's no more difficult than replying to this post.

    I know this because I use said programs, and play many instruments.
    Except, for every good Vocaloid song I can give you five done poorly. Just because the program is easy to learn doesn't mean it's easy to master and use well. The basics are always easy to learn because that's the meaning of basic.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Vocaloid is not music, it is a program that writes music. Music, as by definition, is the art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion. As such, what the program Vocaloid does, is make music. How music is made is irrelevant to whether it is or is not music.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 06-04-2011 at 09:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    Vocaloid is not music, it is a program that writes music. Music, as by definition, is the art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion. As such, what the program Vocaloid does, is make music. How music is made is irrelevant to whether it is or is not music.
    Except the program still follows your guidelines since the voice is created by sampling human voices and arranging them to form words.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    Except the program still follows your guidelines since the voice is created by sampling human voices and arranging them to form words.
    Yes, and? It is a program that writes music; a guitar is not music, neither is a piano or a human's ability to vocalize sound.

    Music written by Vocaloid is art in the same way as all other music. You can't call something music, and then turn around and not call it art. All music is art, but not all art is music.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 06-04-2011 at 09:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    omg! i love Hatsune miku shes my fave vocaloid
    this is two of my faves

    If history repeats itself, and moves in a circular path, then believing that whatever force is turning it is perfect, is all we can do as we move ahead. Pushed along by forces beyond our control, waiting, for the blade to be swung.
    Kuchiki Rukia (Bleach)

    This great Sig was made by Daken

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    @Blue Footed Booby

    tl;dr it's probably repeating the same thing you said in chat anyways. e_e;;
    人類は調和したのか?
    VY2V3 = Me | Kagamine Len Act 1 = You

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    That post wasn't for you anyways, Anime.


    And good job repeating what you said in chat.
    Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-04-2011 at 10:42 PM. Reason: animehasnofriends

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    Default Re: Is Vocaloid Music?

    I didn't read most of it, but no. I'm not saying I don't respect your opinion because you don't know music theory. What I'm saying is you don't understand it because you're reading a book written and russian without knowing russian.

    Haha, It's just so silly. I don't understand how you could take something so silly so seriously(Vocaloid.) Silly monkey. You're emotionally attached to a Japanese product.

    I'm actually starting to respect what they're doing now. Good job, whoeverinventedvocaloid. You're going to make a lot of money off these people. And if you, whomever you are who posted before me has a problem with that, it's really you're own issue. Don't blame me for it.

    Haha. While it is true that music is subjective, it's also true it's only subjective to an extent.
    Last edited by Blue Footed Booby; 06-04-2011 at 10:59 PM. Reason: animelikestokickpuppies

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