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Thread: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

  1. #1
    Senior Member Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero has a reputation beyond repute Skilero's Avatar
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    Default Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    A phase-out of incandescent light bulbs is set for January of next year by a bill signed into legislation in 2007 by North American Congress. The bill serves as an act to ensure environmental safety, with measures included in it that mandate gas-powered motor vehicle efficiency standards (among other things).

    This week, Phillips Co. released its own 17-watt LED bulb light bulb that exhibits a functioning capability the same as the consumer-favorite 75-watt incandescent bulb. However, the bulb's selling price is projected at $50 each - something many Americans cannot afford.

    Rather than using light bulbs that are affordable and reliable (which are also compatable with adjustable lighting fixtures (lights with knobbed switches), which most of those bulbs that are safe from the phase-out won't work with), it seems as though the average American's household will be much dimmer in the coming days than it once was.

    Republican members of Congress have presented a bill to repeal the phase-out of incandescent light bulbs. Should it pass, the measure to remove the light bulbs from store shelves in North America will be halted.

    Phillips Light Bulb: http://www.globalwarming.org/2011/05...r-light-bulbs/
    Republican Plan to Repeal (Press Release): http://republicans.energycommerce.ho...px?NewsID=8038
    Story: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/light-bulb-ban-looms/
    Last edited by Skilero; 05-17-2011 at 07:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    This wouldn't be a big deal to me. However, in my house we have three Hunter brand fans that we got several years ago and those new bulbs have totally screwed them over. To the point that my mom's fan's (and mine a little later on) light stopped working altogether (even if we switched out the bulbs). Eventually my mom started blaming the new bulbs so went and bought incandescent bulbs and they worked! It was quite a shocker.

    Anyway, my point is I don't like this whole switching over thing. Yeah, I know, "Buy new fans!" but we don't need those expenses right now. There are other appliances that need to be fixed sooner. So I will be very unhappy when they really get rid of them. I won't have a light in my room anymore. -_-

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    If a big business wants to eliminate competition via high regulation, it roots for the Democrats.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    I support the idea of making people become more aware of the little changes they can or could do to make a difference to bigger entities such as the environment, fuel efficiency, etc., but I deem this bill somewhat unnecessary.

    And I'm speaking as a liberal Democrat.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    The new lights blind my eyes. Seriously how can something 10x's brighter be more energy efficient..... Plus they stick out like sore thumbs. We use them. I don't mind them. But I still think people should have a choice. We could worry about something more major than silly lightbulbs.


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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    The new lights blind my eyes. Seriously how can something 10x's brighter be more energy efficient..... Plus they stick out like sore thumbs. We use them. I don't mind them. But I still think people should have a choice. We could worry about something more major than silly lightbulbs.
    Like this? I mean, the two threads were made at the same time and there's more posts here than there are in the other topic - that's kind of demoralizing.

    I completely detest this measure simply because of the fact that it is economically damaging to the working American - a person whose funds should not be touched with the markets the way they are. I'm all for saving the environment, but so long as we keep punching ourselves in the gullet there won't be anyone left to save it. Say what you will about this measure and how it doesn't impact anyone's lives enough to make much of a difference in their lifestyle, but the debts will stack on top of each other and soon enough we'll come to find the working class too small to sustain the unemployed. Now you're left with cutting benefits one-by-one from the unemployed, which won't last forever.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by SKillҽⱤ View Post
    A phase-out of incandescent light bulbs is set for January of next year by a bill signed into legislation in 2007 by North American Congress. The bill serves as an act to ensure environmental safety, with measures included in it that mandate gas-powered motor vehicle efficiency standards (among other things).

    This week, Phillips Co. released its own 17-watt LED bulb light bulb that exhibits a functioning capability the same as the consumer-favorite 75-watt incandescent bulb. However, the bulb's selling price is projected at $50 each - something many Americans cannot afford.

    Rather than using light bulbs that are affordable and reliable (which are also compatable with adjustable lighting fixtures (lights with knobbed switches), which most of those bulbs that are safe from the phase-out won't work with), it seems as though the average American's household will be much dimmer in the coming days than it once was.

    Republican members of Congress have presented a bill to repeal the phase-out of incandescent light bulbs. Should it pass, the measure to remove the light bulbs from store shelves in North America will be halted.

    Phillips Light Bulb: http://www.globalwarming.org/2011/05...r-light-bulbs/
    Republican Plan to Repeal (Press Release): http://republicans.energycommerce.ho...px?NewsID=8038
    Story: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/light-bulb-ban-looms/
    I think it's cute this synopsis completely ignores the existence of compact florescent bulbs that are only somewhat more expensive then incandescents, but their higher cost is mitigated by their longer operational life and significantly lower energy costs in terms of both wattage and waste heat. It's also funny that I could go to Walmart and buy a LED bulb with twice the wattage for a fifth the price. Either your source is dishonest, or you are.

    TL;DR Non-issue is non-issue.
    Last edited by Manhattan_Project_2000; 05-17-2011 at 11:30 PM.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    However, the bulb's selling price is projected at $50 each - something many Americans cannot afford.

    Well, many Americans should probably be worrying about their lighting before their cell-phones too, but I don't see that happening.


    Anyways, if people don't want to buy them, they can still purchase the CFL bulbs.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Smells like corporate-democrat BS from a dozen thousand miles away.
    Now, though LEDs are more energy-saving and always so GODDAMN blindingly bright when you stare into the convex tip, they actually FEEL weaker and dimmer than the incandescent bulbs. Come to think about it, staying in an LED-lit room for over 30 seconds tires my eyes, and I can't stand it. Even the Xenon kits I had on my BMW tired my eyes during long-drives (12-24 hours).
    I guess the more wattage is burned, they closer to daylight it is. And I prefer daylight.


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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    It's also funny that I could go to Walmart and buy a LED bulb with twice the wattage for a fifth the price. Either your source is dishonest, or you are.
    This is what I came to say. Incandescent light bulbs provide less light, cost more, and burn out faster than any light bulbs with more "modern" components. I think the Phillips light bulb in the OP's post is just an extreme example used for juxtaposition, making incandescent bulbs more sensible in comparions because the given example is simply ridiculous. The more common LED bulbs are considerable cheaper than that, provide more light than incandescent bulbs, and last longer. A bit more expensive in the short-run, but a definite money-saver in the long-run - both in light bulb expenses and on your electric bill.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Incandescent bulbs have been banned in the EU for quite a while. Worked out okay. Since the change, which was at least a year ago, I've only had a single bulb die on me, so they really do last longer. Only downside to fluorescent lighbulbs is that they contain mercury and a series of other fairly unhealthy stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    The new lights blind my eyes. Seriously how can something 10x's brighter be more energy efficient..... Plus they stick out like sore thumbs. We use them. I don't mind them. But I still think people should have a choice. We could worry about something more major than silly lightbulbs.
    You are getting too strong bulbs. Try getting ones with lower wattage.
    Last edited by Eris; 05-18-2011 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    I think it's cute this synopsis completely ignores the existence of compact florescent bulbs that are only somewhat more expensive then incandescents, but their higher cost is mitigated by their longer operational life and significantly lower energy costs in terms of both wattage and waste heat. It's also funny that I could go to Walmart and buy a LED bulb with twice the wattage for a fifth the price.
    But how does the bulb set for full-brightness?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Incandescents reach full brightness a fraction of a second after being switched on. As of 2009, CFLs turn on within a second, but many still take time to warm up to full brightness. The light color may be slightly different immediately after being turned on. Some CFLs are marketed as "instant on" and have no noticeable warm-up period, but others can take up to a minute to reach full brightness,or longer in very cold temperatures. Some that use a mercury amalgam can take up to three minutes to reach full output. This and the shorter life of CFLs when turned on and off for short periods may make CFLs less suitable for applications such as motion-activated lighting.

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp
    Also, CFL bulbs have mercury in them - a toxic substance. Should one break, the mess must be handled with gloves to prevent health risk. I feel as though many people out there would fail to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    TL;DR Non-issue is non-issue.
    How honest.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by SKillҽⱤ View Post
    But how does the bulb set for full-brightness?


    Also, CFL bulbs have mercury in them - a toxic substance. Should one break, the mess must be handled with gloves to prevent health risk. I feel as though many people out there would fail to do this.


    How honest.
    It's awesome how you quoted me, yet didn't address my points and instead added new ones, but I'll bite anyway. I just went over to my light switch and turned it on, giving power to the CFL bulbs I have in my track lighting. The build up period, if any, wasn't noticeable. Most applications that need powerful lighting (read, commercial/industrial) already use Halogen lighting, LED, or other similar light sources, not incandescent. The incandescent lights being banned are mostly in residential use, and only in situations where lighting concerns largely revolve around making sure you're able to read and not step on the cat. CFL is more then enough for this.

    As per mercury, I'll quote EnergyStar

    How do CFLs result in less mercury in the environment compared to traditional light
    bulbs?
    Electricity use is the main source of mercury emissions in the U.S. CFLs use less electricity than incandescent
    lights, meaning CFLs reduce the amount of mercury into the environment. As shown in the table below, a 13-watt,
    8,000-rated-hour-life CFL (60-watt equivalent; a common light bulb type) will save 376 kWh over its lifetime, thus
    avoiding 4.3 mg of mercury. If the bulb goes to a landfill, overall emissions savings would drop a little, to 3.9 mg.
    EPA recommends that CFLs are recycled where possible, to maximize mercury savings.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    It's awesome how you quoted me, yet didn't address my points and instead added new ones, but I'll bite anyway. I just went over to my light switch and turned it on, giving power to the CFL bulbs I have in my track lighting. The build up period, if any, wasn't noticeable. Most applications that need powerful lighting (read, commercial/industrial) already use Halogen lighting, LED, or other similar light sources, not incandescent. The incandescent lights being banned are mostly in residential use, and only in situations where lighting concerns largely revolve around making sure you're able to read and not step on the cat. CFL is more then enough for this.

    As per mercury, I'll quote EnergyStar
    I see now, and agree with you. Thank you for explaining the variety of options and versatility a CFL bulb can offer. However, should it not be a matter of principle not to remove the bulbs from the market?

  18. #15
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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by SKillҽⱤ View Post
    I see now, and agree with you. Thank you for explaining the variety of options and versatility a CFL bulb can offer. However, should it not be a matter of principle not to remove the bulbs from the market?
    One of the reasons people create governments is that they ideally exist to protect ourselves from ourselves. There is no ecological or economic justification for the continued use of incandescent bulbs, and so they're being phased out in the same way and for the same reasons the catalytic converter was phased in.
    Ehhh, I dunno if I'll stick around. We'll see.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan_Project_2000 View Post
    One of the reasons people create governments is that they ideally exist to protect ourselves from ourselves. There is no ecological or economic justification for the continued use of incandescent bulbs, and so they're being phased out in the same way and for the same reasons the catalytic converter was phased in.
    There are still opinionated views against CFL bulbs because of the alleged amount time they take to fully turn on. Whether or not this is true should be tested by the federal government before incandescent bulbs are removed from the market entirely. If the incandescent bulb does in fact have a substantially shorter alluminance wait than the CFLs, their numbers should be regulated on store shelves and not taken out completely to serve the specific needs of certain people (say, the person who needs a quick light to ascend the basement stairs safely). If the bulbs fail to show a substantial difference between themselves and CFLs in light up time, they should be removed.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    All but the cheapest CFLs light a room within a second or two, many take just a fraction of a second. Some are slightly dimmer for the first couple of moments, but it really is a complete non-issue. With the absolutely cheapest low end ones you have to wait like 30 seconds for them to light up. But then, you get what you pay for. Similarly, if you get the cheapest imaginable incandescent light bulb, it will last like a week.
    Last edited by Eris; 05-18-2011 at 09:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    I use only energy-saving light bulbs in my house, and considering that I save money, the environment, and actually get better lighting, I see absolutely no reason why we should still have incandescent light bulbs for this day and age.

    In fact, I'll give 'em a head start... *Goes into local stores and starts clearing out the shelves*

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    Default Re: Jan. 2012 Light Bulb Ban

    Why are people debating about light bulbs? That's not the issue here. The issue is casually making a collective market decision for individuals. If you're going to take away freedom, however insignificant it may be, you should have a damn good reason. Incandescents and compact florescents should battle it out at the market, not in Washington D.C. If incandescents are so terrible in comparison, then there is no need to enforce a ban.

    If you want to tell me that the common person is too stupid to make the right light bulb decision and thus the government should intervene, then you are an elitist snob that can go eat a dick. This logic could reasoning could just as well be used to ban Justin Beiber on the premise "Lady Gaga is a superior performer and Beiber fans are too ignorant to realize it." One could say musical taste is subjective, whereas light bulb performance can be objectively measured, but the statement is short sighted. All subjective means is that the quality in question depends on the person. Likewise a light bulb's performance will vary depending on the intentions of the individual buying it. Second guessing how a light bulb ought to be used in order to establish a objective measurement of performance is absurd--all you have to do was let the consumer decide themselves.

    The icing on the cake is that this is being done for the sake of energy conservation. Wasting energy, unlike pollution, does not have negative externalities. When you "waste" (scare quotes for more garbage elitism detected) energy, you are paying for that energy out of your own pocket. Likewise when you conserve energy you save money. The costs and benefits are all internal so no correction is needed. Even if there were some externalities involved, it's still ridiculous to cherry pick appliances for being too wasteful rather than to directly address the utility being rationed itself.

    Anyway, if you, practically speaking, think any particular issue is trivial, wouldn't it be best to take the path of least resistance (i.e. not piling up more costly bureaucracy) on that issue? A governing authority, especially one at the national level, should err on the side of anarchy rather than on the side of totalitarianism when it comes to non-issues.

    Time for some real talk: How much the CFL people pay off the party/congressmen sponsoring this bill. $0? Millions? Billions? I'm sure the cost was much less than what it would take to actually compete.

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