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Thread: Obama's Illegal War

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    Default Obama's Illegal War

    So anyone who has been watching the news for the past day may have heard that Obama just stuck the United States missles first into the Libyan civil war.

    It's already being pointed out that despite agreement in the United Nations, Obama didn't bother to ask Congress for approval before going to war. Oops.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Yeah. Why change a winning concept? I kinda get the feeling Obama is trying to guarantee his second turn by involving himself in this conflict.

    I seriously don't see why the US is even involved in this. This crap is going down on the EU's porch. The EU has plenty military power to deal with it. The sheer cost of logistics of the American involvement makes it economically questionable (especially given it's involved on two other fronts already, and is in serious economic trouble).
    Last edited by Eris; 03-20-2011 at 10:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    The main problem is that this movement against Muammar Gaddafi is being done by the United Nations, which the United States (for one damned reason or another) has an obligation to fully support all decisions involving it regardless of the implications.

    In the end, money's the last thing the United States cares about.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    The main problem is that this movement against Muammar Gaddafi is being done by the United Nations, which the United States (for one damned reason or another) has an obligation to fully support all decisions involving it regardless of the implications.

    In the end, money's the last thing the United States cares about.
    If the US didn't want this, it would have just vetoed it in the security council.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    If the US didn't want this, it would have just vetoed it in the security council.
    That's a good bit of knowledge. Unfortunately, it just tells you how much of an obligation the United States feels it has in the UN, even when the others have it under control.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    The main problem is that this movement against Muammar Gaddafi is being done by the United Nations, which the United States (for one damned reason or another) has an obligation to fully support all decisions involving it regardless of the implications.
    And let's make no mistake - this is a move against Al-Qadhafi. Don't believe Obama for a second when he says the UN is motivated to "protect the civilians". More civilians are dying in Yemen right now. The difference is that nobody likes Al-Qadhafi.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Kadafi is one that thinks war is a way of life. And war may be just what he wants so that he can wipe out everyone on the globe. And he may pick up where Saddam left off.
    320 years have passed since the coven sank into the dark

    I may have been born in The United States, but running through my veins is 70,000% UK blood.

    Here's something from my blog:
    http://www.animeforum.com/blog.php?1...y-Special-Blog

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cless Alvein View Post
    And let's make no mistake - this is a move against Al-Qadhafi. Don't believe Obama for a second when he says the UN is motivated to "protect the civilians". More civilians are dying in Yemen right now. The difference is that nobody likes Al-Qadhafi.
    This could probably have been solved peacefully if it wasn't for the nincompoop that decided to freeze his foreign assets and issue an international arrest warrant before turning up the heat with talks of a no-fly zone. They've essentially ensured that he has no option but to fight to the bitter end.

    If he resigns, he's as good as dead, as he can't leave the country without being arrested. What the hell do they expect him to do?

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    Gamertag: Serated PSN ID: Serated Steam ID: Serated13

    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Little tidbit on declaring war. The President cannot officially declare war, only Congress can. This is just another American skirmish. The President can legally place troops, send supplies, and drop bombs where ever he pleases, but that does not necessarily mean he is declaring war. SOMETIMES, this is illegal, but unless congress does something about it, he can drop as many bombs as he likes and it wont really matter.

    \/CLICK\/


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    If they had actually aided the opposition weeks ago when they were at their strongest, this could have since long been over, and Gaddafi could already have been peacefully extradited.

    But yeah, you know, we just sit around not able to make up our minds and wait until we have no option other than to kill the guy, along with far more innocent civilians/military casualties.

    so yeah. Way to go UN
    Last edited by Ericgamer1; 03-20-2011 at 01:00 PM.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    If he resigns, he's as good as dead, as he can't leave the country without being arrested. What the hell do they expect him to do?
    Exactly. It's an elaborate trap, but an obvious one just the same. The world needs America to pull it off though, and Obama danced for them without much resistance.

    This has also cost America over $73 million in missiles alone as of this post.


    ---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Serated View Post
    Little tidbit on declaring war. The President cannot officially declare war, only Congress can. This is just another American skirmish. The President can legally place troops, send supplies, and drop bombs where ever he pleases, but that does not necessarily mean he is declaring war. SOMETIMES, this is illegal, but unless congress does something about it, he can drop as many bombs as he likes and it wont really matter.
    There's a tendency to think that a "No-Fly Zone" is no big deal because we held one on Iraq for so long, but it's an act of war according to our own Secretary of Defense when you look at the scope of the operation required to establish one. And then there's Obama's own words: "The President does not have the power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." So no, he cannot simply drop bombs all day and hide behind "Well, I didn't want to but they asked me to do it."
    Last edited by Cless Alvein; 03-20-2011 at 01:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    So, to summarize, we are attacking, but not declaring war, huh? tomayto tomahto if you ask me.

    The US is getting overly involved in world affairs. We've got 2 wars on our hands, and now we're wading into Libya? Just let other countries handle it!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    I'll just leave this here.
     

    Quote Originally Posted by belowlink
    Arab League head Amr Moussa told reporters Sunday that the Arab league thought the use of force was excessive following an overnight bombing campaign that Libya claims killed at least 48 people.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=439x699652

    FYI: Libyan media's known for its absolute lack of credibility - and is government-run. They've made various claims of shooting down French air forces etc which were proven untrue. Despite this, the Arab League trusts the Libyan Media more than it does the United Nations.

    Go figure.
    Last edited by Skilero; 03-20-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    I'll just leave this here.
     



    http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=439x699652

    FYI: Libyan media's known for its absolute lack of credibility - and is government-run. They've made various claims of shooting down French air forces etc which were proven untrue. Despite this, the Arab League trusts the Libyan Media more than it does the United Nations.

    Go figure.
    The AL should neither trust Libyan media, nor the UN. As the adage goes, the first casualty of war is truth.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    I'm confused, why is the U.S. involved in this? Did the UN order the US to go in? What's the tune for this shindig?

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    I'm confused, why is the U.S. involved in this? Did the UN order the US to go in? What's the tune for this shindig?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    That's a good bit of knowledge. Unfortunately, it just tells you how much of an obligation the United States feels it has in the UN, even when the others have it under control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    The main problem is that this movement against Muammar Gaddafi is being done by the United Nations, which the United States (for one damned reason or another) has an obligation to fully support all decisions involving it regardless of the implications.

    In the end, money's the last thing the United States cares about.
    Quotechain - Trademark Sasorikiller.

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasorikiller View Post
    Quotechain - Trademark Sasorikiller.
    I didn't know the US had an obligation to bend over and take it from the UN...

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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    I'm confused, why is the U.S. involved in this? Did the UN order the US to go in? What's the tune for this shindig?
    If the US wanted to prevent this, it had the power. As a member of the UN security council, it has veto power on decisions like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeschylus View Post
    I didn't know the US had an obligation to bend over and take it from the UN...
    It does, but bends anyway.

  19. #19
    The Palmtop Tiger Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash has a reputation beyond repute Rainbow Crash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    We're poking our nose into where the gas is. Gas has gone up considerably in the past weeks. They hope the sooner this mess is done the quicker gas goes down.

    I mean we COULD go help Japan more but we don't get gas in return so why bother.. "FIRE ZEE MIZZLES!!"


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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    As far as I'm aware, war was not declared. And because we're not going to war, it doesn't need to be.

    France and Britain have been wanting to go into Libya to defend opposition groups for some time, as the UN was debating this no-fly-zone crap. Now that they've gone in, Obama promised to defend French and British troops as they began aerial bombardment of Libya's military compounds; in this, the US fired missiles from off-shore submarines to take out Libyan anti-aircraft artillery.

    So long as we are only defending out allies who've gone into the region, I'm fine with it; we, on the other hand, should keep our own troops out of the country.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

  21. #21
    Senior Member RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO has a reputation beyond repute RASCO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    ah i heard about this, hopefully things get cleared




  22. #22
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    As far as I'm aware, war was not declared. And because we're not going to war, it doesn't need to be.
    Therein lies the conflict: Was this an act of war?

    I could rant about this all day, but for the sake of keeping protocol precious I'dve consulted with Congress more than he did. In the end, time was against President Obama and the decision was pressured. Unfortunately for him, he's also decided to take a vacation whilst his plans of action in Libya are being executed. That adds insult to injury, even for someone who supported the President's decision. In a way of the sorts, it's like he's walked out on America.

    So regardless of whether or not he had Congress' support, the president did not handle this situation correctly.

    I'll add all of this to my "Obama's March Madness" pool of blunders. At least he isn't golfing in Latin America...right?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Only one question remains: how do you smell Kadafi?
    320 years have passed since the coven sank into the dark

    I may have been born in The United States, but running through my veins is 70,000% UK blood.

    Here's something from my blog:
    http://www.animeforum.com/blog.php?1...y-Special-Blog

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    The last time the US congress passed a declaration of war was in 1942, against Romania during WW2.

    The Korean war was a "police action" under the aegis of the United Nations.
    Marine deployment during the Lebanon crisis was an operation to protect a regime threatened by international communism.
    Vietnam war never had a declaration
    Grenada and Beirut were military operations, and had no declaration of war either
    The invasion of Panama was considered a police action to capture and try Manuel Noriega, and the fact that he was in charge of the country and we installed a new government wasn't enough for a declaration of war as well.
    Gulf war, interventions in Somalia and Yugoslavia, and even the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq had no formal declarations of war. Iraq had a formal authorization to use force passed initially, during negotiations, but no declaration of war, and nothing to begin moving troops in.


    My personal view is that I do not have problems with us providing aerial support to our allies operating in the area, but I do not wish to see us move ground troops into yet another engagement. While technically the US does have veto power over any UN resolution, I imagine politics and the current state of world opinion would have prevented us from basically declaring support for Qadaffi by blocking any UN action, and once it was passed we do have an obligation to work with the UN.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Obama's Illegal War

    Well, The missile strike was aimed at one thing and one thing only. Anti-Aircraft batteries (Guns, Rockets, and Missiles). The 48 people claimed to be killed to my knowledge at this time have not been indentified nor verified that they're actually dead. Why did the U.S. target this AA batteries? To keep the French, English, Canadian, and American fighters (As well as possible/supposed UAE fighters) from being attacked. For those wondering why the U.S. is constantly digging it's nose in others affairs, keep in mind that the Libyan people sought after the U.S.'s and UN's protected and begged for them to intervene for at least the past week. Before we attacked, we requested the Gaddahfi stop these attacks on his own people. He said he would, but the evidence shows that he's actually stepped up the violence. Not just on those rebeling, but random people as well that just happen to be caught in or near the fray. As for how come the U.S. is in this instead of just the UN? Keep in mind the UN includes the U.S., unlike the League of Nations we're actually a member. Also the resources sent there, a few planes already in Europe and a boat or two that as probably near there anyways. Unlike the Canadians and English whose ships are heading there to standby. Plus, nobody ever asks for help without half the world wanting the U.S. to get involved (And by involved I mean lead the efforts).
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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