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Thread: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

  1. #1
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    Default Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    So, I'm translating this song. Help and C&C (Command & Conquer) needed, appreciated and rewarded with real imaginary cookies. =]


    見上げた空が闇へと誘われ
    今宵また 月の光 閉ざされた

    The sky to which I raised my eyes was trapped in the darkness
    Tonight again, the moonlight has been sealed away

    誰かが願う 祈りの言葉さえも
    届かない 静寂の中で悶えた

    In this silence in which even the words of a prayer
    from a pleading person wouldn't make it, I was in pain

    夢はいつか夢のままで
    儚い思いに呑まれる
    今宵が満月なら「想イヨ届ケ」と祈るだけ

    My dream is that someday, like in the dream,
    I'd be overwhelmed with momentary feelings.
    If tonight is a full moon, that my feelings would reach you is all I want to pray

    1) grammar?

    2) Is "engulfed in" better than "overwhelmed with"?


    愛しき姿想い 明日の暦を占った
    「もう一度 もう一度と」
    鏡の前で祈る
    夢か幻であれ

    The thoughts of your dear phantom forecasted the course of my future
    "Only if I could see you again..."
    I pray in front of the mirror
    Be it in a dream or an illusion

    Better way to phrase 愛しき姿 and 明日(あす)の暦を占った? :/

    未だ見ぬ 明日の足音探しては
    閉ざされた光までも届かない

    In my search for the traces of the yet-to-be-seen tomorrow,
    my prayers wouldn't make it even to the sealed light

    舞い散る花火 儚き恋の終わり
    映り逝く季節へと重ねていた

    The gracefully descending fireworks were amassing down
    towards the season that will "change" (*replace the current one) ending my momentary passions

    Okay, I know...

    There's something wrong here. Three problems: First, 重ねる is transitive and it's hard to infer the subject and object, but I know it has a very abstract meaning here. (The 花火 are not "amassing", but as they fell down and accumulated, they were repeatedly "stacking" something -- the "pieces" of the moment, maybe? ... the pixels on the progress bar? =P The emotional progress of the moment?)

    映り逝く in this exotic compound seems like a wordplay on 移り行く ("to change (intransitive); to shift; to come and go"), which fits the 季節, and 映る ("to be reflected; to be projected; to harmonize [with]"), which fits the imagery the 花火 draw, implying the 季節 being an image being momentarily projected by the 花火 as they fell, and then going away. Eh... which is all fine and all, except that it contradicts the part below.

    I have a problem with へと being suffixed directly to 季節, as it places the
    季節 at the far end of the spectrum (as opposed to being "in the moment"), which is not what I understand from the stanza. There would be no that problem if 移り行く were used, but 映る blows it.

    Can someone explain this please? Verbosely, if needed. ^^;

    時を止めて 闇を裂いて
    無数の光を放った
    絡んだ指先まで儚い想いが交差する

    Stopping time and tearing up the darkness,
    they were uttering countless flashes of light
    My fleeting emotions blend together all through (my body) until my tangled fingertips

    Not sure if that doesn't Engrish.

    いつしか この想いが貴方に届きます様に
    体を委ねられて短き歌を詠んだ
    夢か幻であれ

    And before I knew it, hoping for my feelings to reach you,
    I was composing a short song with all of my heart and senses
    Be it in a dream or an illusion

    ...?

    空を描く雲を眺め
    駆け巡る風を感じて
    今宵も貴方浮かべ
    「想イヨ届ケ」と

    Watching the clouds that paint the sky,
    and feeling the racing winds,
    this night too, as you surface my mind,
    I pray for my feelings to make it to you

    夢はいつか夢のままで
    儚い思いに呑まれる
    今宵が満月なら「想イヨ届ケ」と祈るだけ

    Repeated stanza.

    愛しき姿想い 明日の暦を占った
    「もう一度 もう一度と」
    鏡の前で祈る
    夢か幻であれ
    「儚イ想イヨ散レ」

    Repeated stanza... except:

    "My fleeting feelings, fall."

    ... which doesn't sound very right. >.>


    Jeez, what's wrong with the forum today? It destroyed my formatting twice... *sigh*
     

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    > 夢はいつか夢のままで
    > 儚い思いに呑まれる
    > 今宵が満月なら「想イヨ届ケ」と祈るだけ

    "XはYのままで" usually means "while X is still Y". So I would read this as "Someday my dream, while still a dream, will be..."

    I think "engulfed" and "overwhelmed" are both fine, really.

    For the last line of this stanza, perhaps "I only pray that..." or "My only prayer is..."?

    > 愛しき姿想い 明日の暦を占った

    ... yeah, I can't think of any better way to phrase this either. I just wanted to suggest "foretold" rather than "forecasted" -- the former is more associated with fortune-telling, the latter with weather reports. At least for me.

    > 絡んだ指先まで儚い想いが交差する

    How about "... to the tips of my tangled/entwined fingers"? I'd suggest at least changing "until" to "to"; "until" is a bit Engrish/translatorese.

    Sorry I couldn't help more. It is a tricky song.

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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    Yay for extra help (from bp)! =)

    In addition to what she has suggested:


    愛しき姿想い 明日の暦を占った
    By thinking about your lovely figure/posture/physique, I foretold my future.

    * Point is, the one doing the fortune-telling is "I", not the thoughts. In fact, it's most likely that 想い here is a verb (= 想って)


    舞い散る花火 儚き恋の終わり
    映り逝く季節へと重ねていた
    I gathered up the cascading fireworks and the end of my fleeting love,
    which in turn marked the end of this season/summer.

    Okay, I think the idea here is that the protagonist had a heartbreak/unrequited lovein one summer. Fireworks are a classical symbol for summer, so with the brilliant fireworks diminished and her love ended, she's now left with the end of the summer/season, all while heartbroken. (Ugh, not sure if this makes sense to you at all...>.> )
    But I really really don't want to do too much with 映り逝く here... I mean, I get the imagery perfectly: that the changing season is reflecting her heartbreak, but it'd be too much of a pain to try to include that in the actual translation.


    「儚イ想イヨ散レ」
    For "chire", "scatter away" would probably sound a little better.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    Thanks for the help. Umm... I had to delay this because my head was totally elsewhere yesterday.

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    Okay, I think the idea here is that the protagonist had a heartbreak/unrequited lovein one summer. Fireworks are a classical symbol for summer, so with the brilliant fireworks diminished and her love ended, she's now left with the end of the summer/season, all while heartbroken. (Ugh, not sure if this makes sense to you at all...>.> )
    But I really really don't want to do too much with 映り逝く here... I mean, I get the imagery perfectly: that the changing season is reflecting her heartbreak, but it'd be too much of a pain to try to include that in the actual translation.
    Yeah, it makes a lot of sense now.

    I think we can reformulate it to easy up the translation:

    儚き恋が終わって季節が映り逝くまで 舞い散る花火を重ねていた。

    I gathered up the cascading fireworks until my fleeting love ended,
    which corresponded to the end of that summer


    The thing is that it doesn't make sense to interpret 終わり as another object for 重ねる. (Lol, yeah, I know. You probably just took a quick look at it. =P) It's a verb on its own, and the whole clause 儚き恋の終わり is compounded with the 季節 clause.

    I'm just not sure if "corresponded" sounds too "scientific/business-y".

    And regarding the symbolism: I guess it's times like these when we resort to embedding culture lessons in footnotes. XD

    Quote Originally Posted by animeyay View Post
    Point is, the one doing the fortune-telling is "I", not the thoughts.
    Ugh... why? ^^;

    The way I see it is that it could be interpreted either way, and I'm more inclined to do it that way... unless there's a reason not to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    "XはYのままで" usually means "while X is still Y". So I would read this as "Someday my dream, while still a dream, will be..."
    This kinda confuses me. Not the のままで part; the way you read it. So, is 夢 the subject of 呑まれる? Or did you not mean it literally?

    Anyway, I interpreted it this way:

    My dream is that someday, while still in a dream,
    I'd be overwhelmed with momentary feelings.
    Last edited by Aku no Hikari; 03-09-2011 at 02:37 PM.
     

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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Aku no Hikari View Post
    儚き恋が終わって季節が映り逝くまで 舞い散る花火を重ねていた。
    I gathered up the cascading fireworks until my fleeting love ended,
    which corresponded to the end of that summer
    Okay, I see what you were trying to do. I'm a little hesitant about that rephrased sentence (although the sentence makes a lot more sense just by itself), mainly because the original Japanese would sound toooooo weird and unnatural if 儚き恋の終わり is attached to 映り逝く季節. Also, in that case, both 終わり and 映り逝く would have to be verbs of 恋 for it to work grammatically...

    Ugh, this is getting too complicated to unravel/explain. I mean, yes, go with what you came up with, because even though I'm having a hard time agreeing to its grammar, it still sounds pretty and befitting to the context of the song. And screw these two lines; definitely the most perplexing lyrics I've seen in my life. ehe


    Quote Originally Posted by Aku no Hikari View Post
    The way I see it is that it could be interpreted either way, and I'm more inclined to do it that way... unless there's a reason not to do so.
    Okay, let's analyze this line a bit more in depth.

    The original Japanese: 愛しき姿想い 明日の暦を占った
    Your translation: The thoughts of your dear phantom forecasted the course of my future
    My suggestion: By thinking about your lovely figure/posture/physique, I foretold my future.

    Your translation isn't horribly wrong or anything, but grammatically it's not accurate enough. We both agree that there's an omitted を between 姿 and 想い, right? So this means 想い and 占った are two verbs sharing the same subject--"I".
    愛しき姿を想って、明日の暦を占った or 愛しき姿を想いながら、明日の暦を占った
    "I" was telling my own future while thinking about 愛しき姿, not with or using 愛しき姿. Your interpretation sounds like 愛しき姿 was actively doing the fortune-telling, which is not the case. Ugh, I just realized how picky I am about grammar...Excuse my grammar-terrorism. ^^;
    How about: With your lovely figure in my mind, I foretold/divined my future.

    But again, if you still like your original interpretation better, then go for it. You're the translator after all =D



    Quote Originally Posted by Aku no Hikari View Post
    is 夢 the subject of 呑まれる?
    I hope bp doesn't mind me doing the explaining for her. Since I'm already explaining, I thought I'd just be complete and answer your last question as well.

    夢はいつか夢のままで
    儚い思いに呑まれる

    Yes, 夢 is indeed the subject of 呑まれる.

    Eventually, my dream, while still a dream,
    will be swallowed up by my momentary feelings.

    as in, "I" was expressing a sense of sadness/regret that "my" dream will eventually be lost before it can turn into reality.

    For your translation to work grammatically, you'll need something like:
    夢はいつか夢見るままに
    儚い思いに呑まれる(こと)
    or
    夢はいつか夢を見ながら
    儚い思いに呑まれる(こと)
    Last edited by animeyay; 03-09-2011 at 07:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    To the contrary, your "grammar terrorism" is exactly what I'm looking for. XD If anything, I want more. =P

    I lost my internet connection for a while and got it back today, but in the meanwhile I managed to solve my problems with this song... You should be grateful; I was going to write a huge reply. =P

    Anyways, I guess I'll submit it later today when I come back from college.

    Thanks again.
     

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    Default Re: Sound Online - -儚- Little Moon Night

    Oh, awesome almighty God of Loss of Internet Connection, I thank thee! =P

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