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Thread: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

  1. #51
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by KanashimiKasouKyoku View Post
    There was this kid at my old school just like that. He tried to demonstrate a kick to a younger student and promptly kneed his face and got a nosebleed.
    That sounds amazing.

  2. #52
    Cowboy Psychologist Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show has a reputation beyond repute Forgotten Show's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    You seem pretty intent on arguing with some kind of strawman.
    I don't think that term means what you think it means, given that I'm not presenting any unrelated point to attack and detract from yours.

    'I think pretty much everyone' doesn't seem to be as accurate as you thought or think it is either (as evidenced by at least three people in this thread alone). Be as annoyed as you want by 'wannabe martial artists'. Just understand that there's likely someone better than you at your chosen skill who's annoyed by your lack of perspective, and a number of people on the outside looking in feeling just the same.

    Recently I read a long discussion on the state of modern religion, where some posed the question of 'what happened to make religion so hated?' The best reply I read was 'Religion happened.' Food for thought.


    BM

  3. #53
    Senior Member Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra has a reputation beyond repute Shinn Kamiyra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    You seem pretty intent on arguing with some kind of strawman. I think pretty much anyone would be annoyed by a person that thought they had a higher level of expertise than you in a subject simply because they watched a lot of anime about it. This thread was started with a pretty clear topic, which was asking if others felt annoyed by such people and if they had any experiences/stories to share.
    That may be the case here, but then again it may not. I can't say as I really mind so long as the core argument isn't strayed from.

    Heh, but then again I have to say I kinda like the idea of an argument like that. You've gotta be pretty brazen to try and swing an argument to your advantage through manipulation like that. Sure it may not exactly be fair, but all you have to do is see through it and crush such attempts where they stand.

    In any case, nice job starting this thread. It was a whole lot more fun than I thought it was going to be. ^^
    Last edited by Shinn Kamiyra; 01-17-2011 at 04:42 PM.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    I'm not really annoyed by them. I find them humorous, but I must be honest, I would try to look like I had some martial arts experience if I ever got in a fight, not because it looks cool, but to bluff because people are a lot less likely to get in a fight with you if they think you're a black belt.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Martial arts aren't even necessarily the greatest choice of self defence either these days.
    I mean yeah, the practitioners can knock the odd tooth out, block a few moves and generally be a pain in the 'posterior' (damned censorship) but then you get boxers who can use your head as a friggin' speedbag an kickboxers that can kick your head into next week.
    Me, I just give into instincts and that's worked pretty well for me. I suppose my height, weight and pain tolerance also factor into it a bit though.

    But, fact of the matter is as a large crowd controller I've had to deal with physical conflict fairly frequently (ironic as I do prefer a pacifistic approach when people can be reasonable enough) and though martial artists have caused me the odd injury, others have caused me much more grief.
    Last edited by Furore; 01-18-2011 at 12:32 PM.
    victoria aut mors

  6. #56
    Senior Member Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23 has a reputation beyond repute Sanosuke23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    Martial arts aren't even necessarily the greatest choice of self defence either these days.
    I mean yeah, the practitioners can knock the odd tooth out, block a few moves and generally be a pain in the 'posterior' (damned censorship) but then you get boxers who can use your head as a friggin' speedbag an kickboxers that can kick your head into next week.
    I have some news for you. Boxing and kickboxing ARE martial arts, guy.
    Visit the Toy Dungeon Studios Store and buy a shirt or zipper pull, damnit!

  7. #57
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotten Show View Post
    I extend the same invitation to anyone who is so terribly annoyed by wannabe warriors why they would be so annoyed, and what they would do if confronted by someone disrespecting their whatever. (Barring falsely imitating a soldier; that's a different deal altogether.)
    Okay, I'll take a crack at it.

    I am annoyed by wannabes because, as I have said before, they not only believe that they are martial art "masters" because they watched a few cartoons and (incorrectly) learned a few stances but also because some of them place themselves on high pedestals and despite the fact they are the new students (and therefore have no right to question the teachers and high-ranking students), will believe that they are better than everyone else. This behavior disrespects the teachers and the students, who take it very seriously and have devoted years of their lives (including split lips, sprained ankles and broken bones) to learning their discipline.

    HOWEVER, as you (and myself) have already pointed out, martial arts doesn't need to be "defended" in order for me and others to enjoy it. Wannabes are everywhere and they pop up all the time (of the many new students that walk into the school every month, only about five of them will have the discipline to go anywhere; everyone else will either wash out or just quit because they believed they would be black belts in two months); to try to "defend" the sport from these people (whether verbally or physically) would only waste my valuable time (I work and go to school) and drain myself ( I have MY OWN lessons to learn; I can't waste energy on stupid people).

    I practice mixed martial arts and barely a day goes by without some newbie moron coming along and believing that he can me beat in a sparing match (either because he is ignorant of MMA or because I am girl; I can never figure which). What do I do? I ignore them. I honestly have much better things do with my time than try to argue with a disrespectful idiot (again, if he can look at my uniform, see a black belt around my waist and still boast about his "ability", he has already proven himself to be a little stupid).

    Sure, I have worked and studied too hard to have someone suddenly believe that they are "better" than me because they learned their skills from freaking Avatar; it annoys the hell out of me. However, by that same token, I have worked and studied too hard to let ignorant people bother me to the point of confrontation; I am better disciplined than that. I know what MY abilities are; I know what THEIR "abilities" are. Whether they figure it out and respect the discipline or keep carrying on and get their butts kicked is really none of my concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    Martial arts aren't even necessarily the greatest choice of self defence either these days.
    I mean yeah, the practitioners can knock the odd tooth out, block a few moves and generally be a pain in the 'posterior' (damned censorship) but then you get boxers who can use your head as a friggin' speedbag an kickboxers that can kick your head into next week.
    Of course, I must point out to you that martial arts is defined as a philosophy or codified system of self-defense or combat. As such, boxing and kickboxing are indeed martial arts. Just FYI.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 01-18-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Ah, my bad.
    Locally boxing and the like are seen more as either fighting or a sport and when a person says martial arts they generally refer to Eastern stuff like Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Kwon Do etc.

    If boxing and kickboxing are considered martial arts then I do definitely have problems with martial artists.

    One thing I wonder from the experts on the topic, I've never met anyone who really knew 'Ninjitsu' (just the poser types).
    It any similar to Jujitsu?
    victoria aut mors

  9. #59
    Senior Member Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Ninjas were primarly Assasins,scouts and basically did the dirty behind the scenes work for their samurai or feudal lord,its basically the art of Assassination, it trains you how to take down a targeted opponent quickly and quietly and it also teaches you how to escape after the assassination occurs, also it was used for scouts and other missions that required stealth tactics, in a nutshell its basically unconventional warfare and gurrella warfare,
    Religion, ideology, resources, land, spite, love or just because... No matter how pathetic the reason, it's enough to start war. War will never cease to exist... reasons can be thought up after the fact... Human nature pursues strife.
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  10. #60
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    Ah, my bad.
    Locally boxing and the like are seen more as either fighting or a sport and when a person says martial arts they generally refer to Eastern stuff like Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Kwon Do etc.

    If boxing and kickboxing are considered martial arts then I do definitely have problems with martial artists.

    One thing I wonder from the experts on the topic, I've never met anyone who really knew 'Ninjitsu' (just the poser types).
    It any similar to Jujitsu?
    I think that's the perception of boxing, kickboxing, etc. that most people have. I strongly agree that they are their own martial arts due to the effectiveness of their techniques. Besides, boxing has been around forever and kickboxing traces itself back to full contact karate and muay thai techniques, so they're just as credible as anything else.

    ---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    Ah, my bad.
    Locally boxing and the like are seen more as either fighting or a sport and when a person says martial arts they generally refer to Eastern stuff like Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Kwon Do etc.

    If boxing and kickboxing are considered martial arts then I do definitely have problems with martial artists.

    One thing I wonder from the experts on the topic, I've never met anyone who really knew 'Ninjitsu' (just the poser types).
    It any similar to Jujitsu?
    There is actually no historical evidence that ninjutsu was a martial art. Most places that claim to teach ninjutsu (assuming they're not just making stuff up) are actually teaching older samurai fighting systems, such as jiujutsu techniques. Actually doing ninjutsu would be things like picking locks, wearing disguises, and stuff like that. The ninja certainly did practice martial arts, but it was nothing unique or special. Besides, as someone that was expected to be an expert in espionage, you were not expected to have to fight people. The worst thing you could do would be to totally confirm that you're a spy by trying to attack everyone randomly. Check out Andrew Cummins, he talks about this stuff at length.

  11. #61
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    One thing I wonder from the experts on the topic, I've never met anyone who really knew 'Ninjitsu' (just the poser types).
    It any similar to Jujitsu?
    Basically what DataMasamune said.

    To expand on it, Ninjutsu is composed of multiple disciplines, not just combat. Students learn several things from shurikanjutsu and sui-ren (water training) to map reading and weather patterns (one would be a pretty bad assassin if they couldn't read a map). However, there are not many schools that teach ninjutsu (and not completely oozing with controversy). Bujinkan is the only organization (that I know of) that teaches ninjutsu as the multi-disciplined martial art that it is and the organization is not that big, so anyone who pops out of nowhere and claims to be practicing ninjutsu is probably lying.

    To answer your main question, jujutsu and ninjutsu are two completely separate disciplines. Jujutsu focuses on grappling and strikes while ninjutsu "focuses" on unconventional and guerrilla warfare and is made up of multiple disciplines.
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  12. #62
    Senior Member Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune has a reputation beyond repute Kyubi-no-kitsune's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Basically what DataMasamune said.

    To expand on it, Ninjutsu is composed of multiple disciplines, not just combat. Students learn several things from shurikanjutsu and sui-ren (water training) to map reading and weather patterns (one would be a pretty bad assassin if they couldn't read a map). However, there are not many schools that teach ninjutsu (and not completely oozing with controversy). Bujinkan is the only organization (that I know of) that teaches ninjutsu as the multi-disciplined martial art that it is and the organization is not that big, so anyone who pops out of nowhere and claims to be practicing ninjutsu is probably lying.

    To answer your main question, jujutsu and ninjutsu are two completely separate disciplines. Jujutsu focuses on grappling and strikes while ninjutsu "focuses" on unconventional and guerrilla warfare and is made up of multiple disciplines.
    i practice a form of bujinkan but its a style thats been kept in my family for generations we dont teach it to anyone outside of the family, i also practice kendo but not as heavily
    Religion, ideology, resources, land, spite, love or just because... No matter how pathetic the reason, it's enough to start war. War will never cease to exist... reasons can be thought up after the fact... Human nature pursues strife.
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  13. #63
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by DateMasamune View Post
    i practice a form of bujinkan but its a style thats been kept in my family for generations we dont teach it to anyone outside of the family, i also practice kendo but not as heavily
    Are you just making stuff up now to try and look like some kind of modern day ninja? How has your family practiced a martial art for "generations" when it wasn't even established until 1970 by Hatsumi?

    ---------- Post added 01-20-2011 at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was 01-19-2011 at 11:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Okay, I'll take a crack at it.

    I am annoyed by wannabes because, as I have said before, they not only believe that they are martial art "masters" because they watched a few cartoons and (incorrectly) learned a few stances but also because some of them place themselves on high pedestals and despite the fact they are the new students (and therefore have no right to question the teachers and high-ranking students), will believe that they are better than everyone else. This behavior disrespects the teachers and the students, who take it very seriously and have devoted years of their lives (including split lips, sprained ankles and broken bones) to learning their discipline.

    HOWEVER, as you (and myself) have already pointed out, martial arts doesn't need to be "defended" in order for me and others to enjoy it. Wannabes are everywhere and they pop up all the time (of the many new students that walk into the school every month, only about five of them will have the discipline to go anywhere; everyone else will either wash out or just quit because they believed they would be black belts in two months); to try to "defend" the sport from these people (whether verbally or physically) would only waste my valuable time (I work and go to school) and drain myself ( I have MY OWN lessons to learn; I can't waste energy on stupid people).

    I practice mixed martial arts and barely a day goes by without some newbie moron coming along and believing that he can me beat in a sparing match (either because he is ignorant of MMA or because I am girl; I can never figure which). What do I do? I ignore them. I honestly have much better things do with my time than try to argue with a disrespectful idiot (again, if he can look at my uniform, see a black belt around my waist and still boast about his "ability", he has already proven himself to be a little stupid).

    Sure, I have worked and studied too hard to have someone suddenly believe that they are "better" than me because they learned their skills from freaking Avatar; it annoys the hell out of me. However, by that same token, I have worked and studied too hard to let ignorant people bother me to the point of confrontation; I am better disciplined than that. I know what MY abilities are; I know what THEIR "abilities" are. Whether they figure it out and respect the discipline or keep carrying on and get their butts kicked is really none of my concern.



    Of course, I must point out to you that martial arts is defined as a philosophy or codified system of self-defense or combat. As such, boxing and kickboxing are indeed martial arts. Just FYI.
    I think mixed martial artists and traditional martial artists tend to have the same problem but with different crowds. TMA people tend to run into anime-obsessed guys that think they're literally ninja because they watch a lot of Naruto. MMA people tend to get jerks decked out in TapouT gear that think they're hardcore for watching UFC/K-1/etc.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by DateMasamune View Post
    i practice a form of bujinkan but its a style thats been kept in my family for generations we dont teach it to anyone outside of the family, i also practice kendo but not as heavily
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    Are you just making stuff up now to try and look like some kind of modern day ninja? How has your family practiced a martial art for "generations" when it wasn't even established until 1970 by Hatsumi?
    Err...I think I need to clear something up here.

    The organization Bujinkan was indeed established by Hatsumi Masaaki in 1970, however, the schools and disciplines that were adopted into the organization have (allegedly) existed for hundreds of years, so there could be families outside of the Bujinkan that still teach variants of those techniques.

    However, as I pointed out in my last post (and could be easily implied by the above paragraph), Bujinkan is not a martial art, but rather an organization that teaches one, namely ninjutsu (and the many disciplines that make up the martial art); one cannot technically practice Bujinkan (one can certainly practice the disciplines that the Bujinkan adopted, however).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    MMA people tend to get jerks decked out in TapouT gear that think they're hardcore for watching UFC/K-1/etc.
    And then we get girls who think that since they "fight on the street" (read: listen to a bunch of rap albums until they think that they are "gangsta"), they can kick anyone's butt in MMA.

    Until this happens:

    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  15. #65
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Err...I think I need to clear something up here.

    The organization Bujinkan was indeed established by Hatsumi Masaaki in 1970, however, the schools and disciplines that were adopted into the organization have (allegedly) existed for hundreds of years, so there could be families outside of the Bujinkan that still teach variants of those techniques.

    However, as I pointed out in my last post (and could be easily implied by the above paragraph), Bujinkan is not a martial art, but rather an organization that teaches one, namely ninjutsu (and the many disciplines that make up the martial art); one cannot technically practice Bujinkan (one can certainly practice the disciplines that the Bujinkan adopted, however).



    And then we get girls who think that since they "fight on the street" (read: listen to a bunch of rap albums until they think that they are "gangsta"), they can kick anyone's butt in MMA.

    Until this happens:

    I know the Bujinkan was formulated by different martial arts, but it is not ninjutsu. In fact, the Bujinkan organization itself has tried to distance itself from the ninja image after the ninja-craze died out and changed their named from Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu to Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. There is no historical evidence that ninjutsu was an individual martial art and many historians have uncovered Hatsumi's claims to be either fraudulent or unverifiable. Picking a lock would be ninjutsu, wearing a disguise to openly scout an area and learn its layout is ninjutsu. Wrist locks and throwing techniques? Pretty much jiujutsu, which was not unique to ninja at all at that time.

  16. #66
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    I know the Bujinkan was formulated by different martial arts, but it is not ninjutsu. In fact, the Bujinkan organization itself has tried to distance itself from the ninja image after the ninja-craze died out and changed their named from Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu to Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. There is no historical evidence that ninjutsu was an individual martial art and many historians have uncovered Hatsumi's claims to be either fraudulent or unverifiable.
    Okay, what you just posted doesn't make any sense but again I am going to clear up some things.

    Yes, the Bujinkan has tried to distance itself from the "ninja craze", however, that doesn't mean that the martial art that its members practice is not ninjutsu.

    Further more, as I have explained again and again (what is this? the third time now), ninjutsu is made up of MULTIPLE DISCIPLINES and as such, the Bujinkan teaches MULTIPLE DISCIPLINES; the fact that ninjutsu combines several disciplines together doesn't mean that it is not an individual martial art. When it comes to Hatsumi, I am not sure what "claims" you are talking about. Whether or not he practices ninjutsu is not really up for debate since his linage can be traced to certain schools. What IS up for debate is whether the schools the Bujinkan associate with actually have an unbroken lineage to feudal ninja (some can be verified [to an extent], others can't).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    Picking a lock would be ninjutsu, wearing a disguise to openly scout an area and learn its layout is ninjutsu. Wrist locks and throwing techniques? Pretty much jiujutsu, which was not unique to ninja at all at that time.
    I think I just spent three posts trying to get rid of that misconception but I will run it by you one more time.

    Stealth and shurikenjutsu were only a few things that a ninja would learn. In fact, one would honestly suck as an assassin if those techniques were the extent of their knowledge, hence the reason why I spent a bunch of posts explaining that ninja would learn several disciplines and techniques, something virtually any authority on the subject will tell you (Jujutsu is a taijutsu, you know hand-to-hand combat. Are you implying that ninja wouldn't learn grappling techniques at all?).

    Limiting them to lock picking, stealth and throwing knives is kinda...ignorant.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Ninja debate with nobody mentioning Ninpo.



    Mr. Seagal, excellent work undermining your own thread.


    BM

  18. #68
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    Okay, what you just posted doesn't make any sense but again I am going to clear up some things.

    Yes, the Bujinkan has tried to distance itself from the "ninja craze", however, that doesn't mean that the martial art that its members practice is not ninjutsu.

    Further more, as I have explained again and again (what is this? the third time now), ninjutsu is made up of MULTIPLE DISCIPLINES and as such, the Bujinkan teaches MULTIPLE DISCIPLINES; the fact that ninjutsu combines several disciplines together doesn't mean that it is not an individual martial art. When it comes to Hatsumi, I am not sure what "claims" you are talking about. Whether or not he practices ninjutsu is not really up for debate since his linage can be traced to certain schools. What IS up for debate is whether the schools the Bujinkan associate with actually have an unbroken lineage to feudal ninja (some can be verified [to an extent], others can't).



    I think I just spent three posts trying to get rid of that misconception but I will run it by you one more time.

    Stealth and shurikenjutsu were only a few things that a ninja would learn. In fact, one would honestly suck as an assassin if those techniques were the extent of their knowledge, hence the reason why I spent a bunch of posts explaining that ninja would learn several disciplines and techniques, something virtually any authority on the subject will tell you (Jujutsu is a taijutsu, you know hand-to-hand combat. Are you implying that ninja wouldn't learn grappling techniques at all?).

    Limiting them to lock picking, stealth and throwing knives is kinda...ignorant.
    As far as I am aware, lockpicking and such is not part of the Bujinkan curriculum. If all it takes is learning various martial arts to be considered a "ninjutsu" practitioner, then I guess I practice ninjutsu as well. As far as most historians are concerned, Hatsumi (or possibly Takamatsu, the guy Hatsumi trained with one day a week) created a mixed bunch of techniques together and just started calling it ninjutsu. I don't see how someone can say it's unverified that he has lineage tracing back to feudal ninja, but he is certainly still ninjutsu. I suggest you watch Anthony Cummins' videos, he's a historian with 10 years experience in the Bujinkan. He goes into great detail and research about the Bujinkan and their ninja lineage claims.



    Also, the comment I made about grappling was that techniques such as those were not unique to the ninja. Which links back to my original point that ninjutsu is not a pure unique martial art. You know, this part here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen
    There is no historical evidence that ninjutsu was an individual martial art and many historians have uncovered Hatsumi's claims to be either fraudulent or unverifiable.
    Last edited by Grey Acumen; 01-21-2011 at 12:45 AM.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    If all it takes is learning various martial arts to be considered a "ninjutsu" practitioner, then I guess I practice ninjutsu as well.
    >Impying I can make chocolate chip cookies out of sand and bark.


  20. #70
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sadist View Post
    >Impying I can make chocolate chip cookies out of sand and bark.
    Delicious.

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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    I do hate those types. Don't worry, the ones who usually brag are those who've got nothing to show. I don't have the same exact experience like yours, but something similar. When I was in my first year in high school, I entered a taekwondo club with three of my classmates. And there was this friend (more of an acquaintance actually), from a different room, she saw us in our uniform and in our sessions. the very summer she entered a taekwondo school and as soon as classes she keep on bragging on the lessons she got and asked us if we were taught the same. and every time we see each other, she would always do forms in front of and that was, what the hell that form again? It's not even right. -_-'


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  22. #72
    Junior Member Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen has a reputation beyond repute Grey Acumen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by akira.yuki View Post
    I do hate those types. Don't worry, the ones who usually brag are those who've got nothing to show. I don't have the same exact experience like yours, but something similar. When I was in my first year in high school, I entered a taekwondo club with three of my classmates. And there was this friend (more of an acquaintance actually), from a different room, she saw us in our uniform and in our sessions. the very summer she entered a taekwondo school and as soon as classes she keep on bragging on the lessons she got and asked us if we were taught the same. and every time we see each other, she would always do forms in front of and that was, what the hell that form again? It's not even right. -_-'
    Haha, that's kind of weird. I didn't think girls would usually turn into one of those types. At Kyokushin Karate last week, we had this guy (probably early twenties) some in to observe a class of hours. He was pale, chubby, and had this terrible ponytail. He also wore a Naruto headband the entire time he was there. We asked him if he had martial arts experience and he went off to list a series of styles he was "master class" in, like Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, Jiujutsu, etc. He joined in for a little bit of pad work and hit the thai pads I was holding with the weakest, most limp-wristed strikes I had ever seen. He never came back.
    Last edited by Grey Acumen; 01-23-2011 at 05:14 PM.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Haha, YES!
    Apart from limp wristed punches, the other brutally obvious giveaway I see in some is a lack of punching from the shoulder.
    If your punch carries no momentum, what the hell is it supposed to do?

    Which reminds me of the one time a wannabe nearly killed me. Started with a few of those girly punches after selling himself up and I almost choked to death on my own laughter. It didn't help that one of the other guards kept mimicking him for hours afterward in a really messed up voice. Seriously though, a wasp sting hurts more then a crap punch.
    victoria aut mors

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore View Post
    Haha, YES!
    Apart from limp wristed punches, the other brutally obvious giveaway I see in some is a lack of punching from the shoulder.
    If your punch carries no momentum, what the hell is it supposed to do?
    Distract. Obscure. Boxers and MMA guys do this all the time. (light reading)


    BM

  25. #75
    Senior Member Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira has a reputation beyond repute Senjou_Akira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Annoyed by Wannabe Martial Artists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Acumen View Post
    Haha, that's kind of weird. I didn't think girls would usually turn into one of those types. At Kyokushin Karate last week, we had this guy (probably early twenties) some in to observe a class of hours. He was pale, chubby, and had this terrible ponytail. He also wore a Naruto headband the entire time he was there. We asked him if he had martial arts experience and he went off to list a series of styles he was "master class" in, like Shotokan Karate, Muay Thai, Jiujutsu, etc. He joined in for a little bit of pad work and hit the thai pads I was holding with the weakest, most limp-wristed strikes I had ever seen. He never came back.
    No, i believe she is the only girl like that. It was my first time seeing a girl that..uh. never mind. XDD whew~ a naruto fanatic who's got nothing to huh? lame. If it wasn't for manners, i'd love to laugh at people like them -_-'


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