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Thread: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

  1. #1
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    Default Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    EDIT: This article better covers it, as it's local- http://www.ksl.com/?sid=31503476



    http://fox13now.com/2014/09/10/autho...s-gas-station/

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/a...-rear-26514297

    http://bossip.com/1031795/utah-polic...t-in-the-back/

    Police 21-foot rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

    Pic of the weapon:
     


    For those too lazy to click: A black man wearing an afro, red shirt, and blue pants was walking around a Utah strip mall wielding a replica Katana as part if his cosplay. Citizens called police. Police arrived, Cosplayer panicked and 'lunged' at police before turning and running. Police then shot 6 times, killing him.

    Important additional info:
    -Police have a ruoe regarding blades. If a suspect is within a certain distance and does not comply, they are authorized to act how they see fit. Ballistic vests do not protect from blades.
    - The man was also seen frantically waving the blade at a nearby gas station and was running towards a Panda Express, yelling and frantically waving the blade.



    Everyone is so mad simply because the guy was black and Police shot him. The guy was stupid IMO. If cops start yelling at me and I've got a steel sword, I'm dropping the damn sword and throwing my arms in the air. So what do you guys think? Did the police take the best course of action? Or did they kikl him for being black?


    Disclaimer: I have tried to source all information posted. Some sites with information I could not access due to being on mobile.
    Last edited by ZombieWolf2508; 10-29-2014 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    the police only acted in accordance with their training and intuition. police officer or not, if i see a man waving a sword in the air and lunging at me, if i am armed i will shoot them, no matter what race they are. they didn't know the sword was fake, how could they? the dead man basically asked to be shot.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    According to the bossip article, the autopsy shows that all of the shots fired hit him in the back. I don't think any of the witnesses testified that he 'lunged' first, either. That info only seems to be in the official police-written report.

    Sounds kinda fishy, but if the guy was running away brandishing a weapon (or what looked like a weapon, anyway), incapacitating the guy with a shot or two seems like a rational action. They didn't know if he was running off to find a hostage or what.

    6 shots from 2 officers does sound like overkill though (tasteless pun is tasteless), especially if they were all from the back and no one was in any apparent danger.

    The guy may have been panicking, but when you have guns pointed at you, it's still probably a good idea to cooperate and drop whatever weapon you have. The guy was stupid, and his ill-considered action got him killed. It's sad.

    Whether it was a thing of race, I have no idea. Honestly, people pulling out the race card for every incident involving a white cop and a black victim is getting pretty old. Some cops just like showing off their power, it doesn't matter what their target's race is. But then suddenly a black guy gets involved and "OMG RACISM". ppl pls.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    NEVER shoot an attacker in the back. A person running away should be considered in retreat, unless after some time they then turn toward you or another individual and start to make a motion in that direction. You do NOT shoot a retreating adversary. That is COWARDICE to the highest level! When he was running way, they should have run up behind him, tackled him to the ground, handcuffed him, and performed a proper arrest. A criminal running away from a person NEVER puts that person in danger. Since he ran at them, then turned and ran AWAY when they drew their guns, their guns were already at the ready at this point. This means that the 21-foot test NO LONGER APPLIES. With their guns already drawn and pointed at the suspect, the INSTANT the suspect turned back toward the cops, or made any sort of motion toward any innocent bystanders, the cops could have shot him by simply pulling the trigger on their ALREADY DRAWN GUNS. This would take a fraction of a second, MUCH FASTER than drawing and then shooting. The 21-foot rule is NO LONGER needed in this situation. Being within 21 feet of somebody wielding a bladed weapon, but you have your gun already drawn and pointed at them, that potential attacker NO LONGER poses a threat to you. You do NOT need to open fire, just to make sure that you get a chance to attack before they do (as would be the case if your gun was holstered to start with). The cops here were COLD BLOODED KILLERS! They had no reason to shoot, other than they wanted to shoot, because maybe it had been a boring night, and these psycho cops wanted some action. You see, the problem with being a cop is you eventually get desensitized to violence, and actually start DESIRING a violent conflict, and you start to get BORED when you don't get to shoot a suspect. So then you start to look for ANY OPPORTUNITY to shoot the next suspect that you encounter. What happened here was nothing short of COLD BLOODED MURDER! No single cop should be allowed to serve in the field for more than 1 year at a time. After each year, they should take at least a year doing a desk job, to GET AWAY FROM the violent streets. When they serve in the field the get exposed to violent images, as they come across terrible crime scenes of utter brutality. This eats away at their humanity, and desensitizes them to violence, and actually makes them start to WANT more violence. These cops in this incident should be tried, found guilty of murder, and executed!
    Last edited by Animedude5555; 10-30-2014 at 04:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Animedude5555 View Post
    NEVER shoot an attacker in the back. A person running away should be considered in retreat, unless after some time they then turn toward you or another individual and start to make a motion in that direction. You do NOT shoot a retreating adversary. That is COWARDICE to the highest level! When he was running way, they should have run up behind him, tackled him to the ground, handcuffed him, and performed a proper arrest. A criminal running away from a person NEVER puts that person in danger. Since he ran at them, then turned and ran AWAY when they drew their guns, their guns were already at the ready at this point. This means that the 21-foot test NO LONGER APPLIES. With their guns already drawn and pointed at the suspect, the INSTANT the suspect turned back toward the cops, or made any sort of motion toward any innocent bystanders, the cops could have shot him by simply pulling the trigger on their ALREADY DRAWN GUNS. This would take a fraction of a second, MUCH FASTER than drawing and then shooting. The 21-foot rule is NO LONGER needed in this situation. Being within 21 feet of somebody wielding a bladed weapon, but you have your gun already drawn and pointed at them, that potential attacker NO LONGER poses a threat to you. You do NOT need to open fire, just to make sure that you get a chance to attack before they do (as would be the case if your gun was holstered to start with). The cops here were COLD BLOODED KILLERS! They had no reason to shoot, other than they wanted to shoot, because maybe it had been a boring night, and these psycho cops wanted some action. You see, the problem with being a cop is you eventually get desensitized to violence, and actually start DESIRING a violent conflict, and you start to get BORED when you don't get to shoot a suspect. So then you start to look for ANY OPPORTUNITY to shoot the next suspect that you encounter. What happened here was nothing short of COLD BLOODED MURDER! No single cop should be allowed to serve in the field for more than 1 year at a time. After each year, they should take at least a year doing a desk job, to GET AWAY FROM the violent streets. When they serve in the field the get exposed to violent images, as they come across terrible crime scenes of utter brutality. This eats away at their humanity, and desensitizes them to violence, and actually makes them start to WANT more violence. These cops in this incident should be tried, found guilty of murder, and executed!
    I disagree. I don't see the police at fault here. A man running around waving what looks to be a real katana? Yeah i would draw my weapon regardless of the rules. Considering he ran at them and supposedly turned away, it wouldn't matter they had their guns drawn because he ran towards them with a sword. They didn't know if it was real or not. Yes killing him wasn't the best option, maybe just immobilizing him and then arresting him would be a smarter idea. Regardless of all that, like horrendous said, If i see someone with a sword coming at me, I'd shoot him too. It's as simple as the man was an idiot.
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    @RyuTama You also have to consider that, according to witnesses, he was running towards a crowded Panda Express. Some of the witniss reports even say he had been muttering to himself and acting strange before the police were called.

    @Animedude5555 I'll give you my katana and you can go challenge those cops to a rematch. I'll even teach you how to use it.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    I think that's hilarious.


    But no, if you walked around with a sword fake or not- i'd shoot you too.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    As far as I can tell, to me it seems the police acted very, very erroneously. First of all, several people have said that if a person pulled a real-looking katana on them, were they equipped with a firearm, they would defend themselves. That makes sense, but this is different: this is the police, the hand of the government. They need to stay calm in seemingly dangerous situations and keep their cool in order to assess what's going on. Shooting a person in the back is not what cops are getting paid for: they're not to fire unless in serious danger. Shooting a person six times is clearly with intention to kill, which in this situation as far as I can tell seems like a greatly exaggerated way to handle things.
    Not to mention the fact that, as ZombieWolf2508 said, he was apparently in (or heading towards) a crowded area: isn't firing multiple gunshots also posing a risk to the general public? Of course, letting the guy actually run into that crowded area is also, as far as they know, a great risk to the general public.

    This seems like a case of police officers trying to protect the peace and doing good, absolutely, but being just a bit too trigger-happy while doing it. But it should be pointed out that what the guy did and how he acted was amazingly stupid, and the cops did what they did most likely because they thought, given the circumstances, it was the best thing to do. It's not an easy choice to make. Still, I can't say they did the right thing here, but I don't believe it was through any malice, and I don't think it was because of any racial issue either: I just think they made a quick decision based on risk assessment.
    Last edited by Whitedwarf; 11-02-2014 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    I feel pity towards that guy, but acting strange and running away while wielding a katana looked really scary and dangerous, not only to the polices but also towards other people. I would shoot too if I were in their shoes.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    A few things.

    One of the article indicates that the sword was actualy steel. The extent to which it is "fake" is that it wasn't sharpened up and probably not made of high quality sword steel. All the same, I bet a stab from that thing is going to go through you, and there's no way you could visually tell how sharp a blade is.

    Only the last four rounds were into the guys back, it sounds like he turned after being shot.

    I don't know exactly how it went down, but it is common for a skilled shooter to be able to fire three times a second, it is common to be trained to fire two or three times (depending on training) if you're going to fire once, and you had two shooters. Also training emphasizes focusing on the front sight of the weapon, seeing the target as a general blur. So it isn't neccessarily like they sat down and had a philosophical debate over tea and decided to shoot the guy in the back. This probably happened fast and their mental thought process could have been "he's coming at us, STOP him" powpowpow.

    The reason that people are trained to shot twice, or three times, (or six in some drills), is because life is not a video game and unless you land a headshot or are otherwise lucky, that other person can keep acting for a fair number of seconds, even if they've received fatal wounds. You can just last a while (seconds) without your heart even beating. But seconds can be a long time if a weapon is involved.

    Mostly I like the idea of cameras and better less-than-lethal weaponry. Using a taser or pepper spray vs someone with a Katana is a good way to get yourself killed if they're determined. An xrep (basically a shotgun fired taser) would get you more options at a greater distance.

    Too bad.

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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    A few things.

    One of the article indicates that the sword was actualy steel. The extent to which it is "fake" is that it wasn't sharpened up and probably not made of high quality sword steel. All the same, I bet a stab from that thing is going to go through you, and there's no way you could visually tell how sharp a blade is.

    Only the last four rounds were into the guys back, it sounds like he turned after being shot.

    I don't know exactly how it went down, but it is common for a skilled shooter to be able to fire three times a second, it is common to be trained to fire two or three times (depending on training) if you're going to fire once, and you had two shooters. Also training emphasizes focusing on the front sight of the weapon, seeing the target as a general blur. So it isn't neccessarily like they sat down and had a philosophical debate over tea and decided to shoot the guy in the back. This probably happened fast and their mental thought process could have been "he's coming at us, STOP him" powpowpow.

    The reason that people are trained to shot twice, or three times, (or six in some drills), is because life is not a video game and unless you land a headshot or are otherwise lucky, that other person can keep acting for a fair number of seconds, even if they've received fatal wounds. You can just last a while (seconds) without your heart even beating. But seconds can be a long time if a weapon is involved.

    Mostly I like the idea of cameras and better less-than-lethal weaponry. Using a taser or pepper spray vs someone with a Katana is a good way to get yourself killed if they're determined. An xrep (basically a shotgun fired taser) would get you more options at a greater distance.

    Too bad.

    A gun has a front and rear site for a reason! Using the front site only is basically useless. Your angle can be WAY OFF and bystanders can get shot. Also because it is an inaccurate technique, those trained to use only the front site are often trained to fire a lot, in hopes of hitting the target. This is a good way to kill a lot of innocent people. Also, at close range where you are guarantied to get a hit in one shot, even with the less accurate technique, firing a crap load of shots as you have been trained is going to guaranty a KILL of your target, even if incapacitating the target is all that's needed to protect yourself and others. It seems that MORONS have been teaching the gun classes at cop schools. You want to shoot a gun, you better learn how to use BOTH sites. Anything these bozo gun-training teachers teach should be IGNORED by the police, and their classes should NOT be taken. They should listen to my teaching instead. I'll teach you right here and now the PROPER way to use both sites to aim a pistol. Here's how to do it:
    Align the front and rear site in your line of vision, so the 2 sites appear superimposed on each other.
    Now while keeping this alignment of the sites, aim the gun until a point on the target about half an inch above the point on the target that you wish to shoot is also visually aligned with the 2 sites.
    The gun sites are actually about half an inch above the center of the gun barrel's bore so keeping the alignment of the sites aimed half an inch above the desired point on the target will guaranty that your bullet will (ideally) hit the exact point.
    There are other factors (how accurate are the sites, how far is your target, what's the wind speed, etc) but unless you are shooting a target that's like over 100 feet away, gravity and wind speed won't effect the bullet's end point much.
    The main factor for shooting close targets (less than 100 feet away) will be how much precision the manufacturer of the gun put into calibrating the sites.
    If they are machined perfectly into the gun's own metal (rather than as an extra addon attachment) then you can expect that the only factor affecting your aim will be how good of an aiming eye you have (how well you can visually align the sites and the target).
    Assuming that the target is either not running, or is running directly toward or away from me (not running perpendicular to the direction of my aim) I could probably completely shoot out his knee joint (putting the bullet right in the center of the joint, causing him to drop to the ground, due to a lack of mechanical support for his body in the knee, due to the completely destroyed joint) from 20 feet away in one shot, and get within an inch of the center of the knee joint from 50 feet away (still close enough to shatter the knee cap, causing an excruciating level of pain that would cause the attacker to drop to the ground, grab his knee, and start screaming in pain, even if somehow his knee joint was still mechanically working after the knee cap was shattered).
    I would have been able to incapacitate this madman without killing him, in one shot, given the scenario that was stated in this news story.
    Last edited by Animedude5555; 11-04-2014 at 05:44 PM.
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  15. #13
    Viva la Touhou !!!!! CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack has a reputation beyond repute CapnJack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    What ever happen to the concept of just disabling a suspect by shooting their arm or leg? Six times and from behind? Apparently they didn't quite trust in their training. The guy was being absolutely stupid, but stupid also doesn't get solved by stupid.




  16. #14
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CapnJack View Post
    What ever happen to the concept of just disabling a suspect by shooting their arm or leg?
    Lawsuits costing the state millions happened.

  17. #15
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CapnJack View Post
    What ever happen to the concept of just disabling a suspect by shooting their arm or leg? Six times and from behind? Apparently they didn't quite trust in their training. The guy was being absolutely stupid, but stupid also doesn't get solved by stupid.
    I don't know that we have any cops on the forum. However that's highly inadvisable for a civilian. Remember, a hit to an arm or leg can easily be fatal if you hit an artery and have a very high chance of causing some degree of permanent damage.

    Anyway the legal stance is that any use of a firearm towards a person is potentially deadly. So either they're an immediate threat that merits being killed or they aren't. And if they ARE such a threat you don't have time to mess around with limb shots. So shooting limbs, and even warning shots that don't hit anybody, are good ways to end up in jail.

    As Kumagawa mentioned it's also a good way to get sued.

    Actually, I bet there's something on that somewhere. Ah:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5693020.html

    Sounds like it's rather the same deal with cops.

    @Animedude5555

    I was tempted to ignore all that. But I guess what I want to know is if you actually have a handgun and license to carry concealed or have it by your bedside or something such that that you might attempt to use it, or if you're just typing stuff on the internet.



    In any case none of that means the shooting in this particular story was justified. My points in my previous post only related to how it could possibly have been.

  18. #16
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I don't know that we have any cops on the forum. However that's highly inadvisable for a civilian. Remember, a hit to an arm or leg can easily be fatal if you hit an artery and have a very high chance of causing some degree of permanent damage.

    Anyway the legal stance is that any use of a firearm towards a person is potentially deadly. So either they're an immediate threat that merits being killed or they aren't. And if they ARE such a threat you don't have time to mess around with limb shots. So shooting limbs, and even warning shots that don't hit anybody, are good ways to end up in jail.

    As Kumagawa mentioned it's also a good way to get sued.

    Actually, I bet there's something on that somewhere. Ah:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5693020.html

    Sounds like it's rather the same deal with cops.

    @Animedude5555

    I was tempted to ignore all that. But I guess what I want to know is if you actually have a handgun and license to carry concealed or have it by your bedside or something such that that you might attempt to use it, or if you're just typing stuff on the internet.



    In any case none of that means the shooting in this particular story was justified. My points in my previous post only related to how it could possibly have been.
    I never have fired a gun, nor do I own one, but I have played plenty of realistic action games with gun models (including their sites) based on actual guns (not just fake sci-fi type guns). I've trained myself how to shoot using these games, and learned how to get an aim at a target using the front and rear sites together, such that if I ever did own a gun, and ever needed to use it to defend myself, I would know EXACTLY how to use it.
    Last edited by Animedude5555; 11-08-2014 at 03:45 AM.
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  20. #17
    Senior Member Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya has a reputation beyond repute Galleya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Why didn't they shoot him in the leg ?

  21. #18
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Animedude5555 View Post
    I never have fired a gun, nor do I own one, but I have played plenty of realistic action games with gun models (including their sites) based on actual guns (not just fake sci-fi type guns). I've trained myself how to shoot using these games, and learned how to get an aim at a target using the front and rear sites together, such that if I ever did own a gun, and ever needed to use it to defend myself, I would know EXACTLY how to use it.
    if people actually took you seriously, you'd probably piss them off. but no one on this site takes you seriously anymore.

  22. #19
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man in cosplay wielding a replica katana shot and killed by police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galleya View Post
    Why didn't they shoot him in the leg ?
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Animedude5555 View Post
    I never have fired a gun, nor do I own one, but I have played plenty of realistic action games with gun models (including their sites) based on actual guns (not just fake sci-fi type guns). I've trained myself how to shoot using these games, and learned how to get an aim at a target using the front and rear sites together, such that if I ever did own a gun, and ever needed to use it to defend myself, I would know EXACTLY how to use it.
    Actually, I'll give you props for not pretending you're a Navy Seal with crazy ninja gun skills.

    In any case I'm afraid what you've learned in those games is wrong in a number of ways, especially in regards to handguns.

    If you don't suffer from depression or something, you might want to consider getting a firearm. But, if space permits, I'd strongly advise a shotgun instead of a handgun. It is much harder to use a handgun than you'd think (or that you might be willing to believe just by me typing), and they also have much less ability to actually stop a determined attacker. Also, while the ammunition is much more expensive, a cheap defensive shotgun is quite affordable, cheaper than most handguns actually and usually they don't require as many legal hoops to jump through.

    That said generally any gun is better than no gun unless you do something stupid with it. Most of the time attackers aren't determined. Just knowing you have a firearm of any kind is usually enough to get them to clear out without a fight, and any hit by any firearm often (temporarily) drops an attacker due to psychological responses. It's just that you also get stories of police shooting an attacker dozens of times, and that guy will still be shooting back for a while.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 11-10-2014 at 04:29 PM.

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