Then if I was the cause I would be responsible for stopping it.
Originally Posted by proEuphie
If that meant killing the person then that is what I would do.
If that was the best choice I could make in the end.
You would kill someone who would be just as harmless if confined securely as if she was dead?
If that lead to the best outcome then I most certainly would.
In that case I would capture that person.
You would prefer to kill someone you could capture alive even sooner than you killed her, someone you could capture alive even safer for you than killing her?
However you would have to show that capture was the best possible outcome.
With Euphemia you can't do that.
Them loving and trusting you is moot.
You would prefer to kill someone who loves and trusts you instead of capturing them alive?
IF I had to then I would.
That I would do what I believe is right even if it means killing someone I loved and who loved me.
Do you realize what you are admitting?
I don't believe love is an excuse for not stopping a person massacring people around me even it means killing them.
You would need to convince me there is no necessity.
And because you see the necessity in an action which is totally unnecessary? You see something which is not there?
In Euphies case I would have not only my personal feelings but the political and personal feelings of everyone I commanded to worry about.
I can't simply go with my feelings and jeopardize the millions of people under my authority.
THAT would be worse IMO
Again you have to prove the death is not necessary.
Killing someone whose death is not necessary to save other lives but for other, personal, political, or strategic, reasons is called murder.
Here we have alot of factors both personal and politcal which make it necessary
and what of others?
I couldn't begin to count all the fictional characters and historic persons who have been hated for hundreds or thousands of years because they killed people not because their deaths were necessary to save other lives, but for personal, political, or strategic reasons.
How many have killed throughout history and been hailed as heroes?
and if it is for a strategic reason especially in a time of war and that strategy would save countless other lives you cannot justify it as unnecessary.
Again you face the problem of proving her death was unnecessary in the grand scheme of things
There is no way the brittanians could have spun it the other way with Euphemia dead.
I say that the videos of the Fuji Massacre undeservedly made Euphemia look bad and deservedly made the Britannian army look bad. Euphemia undeservedly looked so bad that the Britannians decided to put all the blame on her instead of trying to rehabilitate her reputation.
With her alive and on their side they would have testimony to prove it wasn't her fault. (Gaining more public support against Lelouch)
Captured she they could claim Zero forced her and are using her in captivity (Gaining sympathy for her plight)
Dead they had no choice but to accept thee facts they saw themselves.
So here her death suited Lelouch's plans the best
I'm sure that countless millions of persons cheered Zero for killing Euphemia.
or they simply would have demanded her execution.
Ad they would have cheered Zero even more if he captured Euphemia and told the world that Euphemia was a wonderfully good and innocent child who had gone crazy due to the stress of doing good when all her fellow Britannians wanted her to be as evil as they were, or perhaps had been secretly brainwashed by Britannians and/or Japanese who wanted to sabotage the SAZ plan.
Nothing Lelouch could do then would save her and if anything it would hurt lelouch even more. (Personally and politically/strategically so again favoring the necessity of euphies death)
If you think that then you are being blind and foolish.
And if Zero accurately made Euphie seem like another victim and put the blame for the massacre on all the Britannian soldiers who had obeyed the massacre order and on the government which had turned them evil, he would have been saying what was true -- obviously true except for Euphie's innocence.
You don't believe the innocence of the person who on National television gave the orders and fired the first shot.
There is no innocence there not without revealing Lelouchs Geass and bringing the whole Black knights order down with him.
This would have not only been futile but played into the hands of Brittanians.
Cos the only way he could prove her innocence was to reveal the one secret that eventually led to his downfall.
Killing her gave the reputation of Zero being the savior.
I think that capturing Euphemia when killing her seemed the obvious thing to do would have enhanced Zero's reputation for justice and fairness, not tarnished it.
Killing the person who had so betrayed the Japanese with a false peace
And locking up Euphemia for the rest of her life would be better than killing her.
Cos then she can live her insanity out to the max?
To say otherwise is to question the intelligence and judgment of countless thousands and millions of accused and convicted persons and their lawyers who have tried to get life imprisonment instead of the death penalty.
of course DEATH ROW INMATES aren't gonna appreciate the fact they are on death row.
What (if any) relevance doe this have?
You say Euphie would have been guarded by Japanese people in Japan.
Who would think a prisoner of the Japanese wouldn't be guarded by Japanese?
Whats the point?
Even if it was certain that she would be locked up in Japan instead of Britannia or some neutral country, it would be easy to get non-Japanese to guard her.
In a time of war with resources strained already this is simply one more hassle.
A strait Jacket is much more cost effective
Irrelevant as he wouldn't have been there
Euphie herself had a Japanese boyfriend.
Later in the show the Japanese Oghri married the Britannian Viletta.
So one character marries a brittanian
Yay for him but how does this affect her guards?
Still technically Japanese IIRC
And Kallen had a Japanese mother and a Britannian father.
Again a strait jacket would be more economical.
So in the world of Code Geass as well as in our world, there will be plenty of people who don't look Japanese and won't be in danger from Euphemia but would love someone Japanese and don't want to let Euphie escape -- if the Japanese government couldn't just hire Russians or Africans or Hindus or Britannians to guard her.
And I seriously doubt many of the Japanese cared overwhelmingly for her safe prison sentence in the lap of Luxury.
Again the benefits for everyone involved was greater with her death.
Lelouch did something heinous and disgusting like shooting someone who loved and trusted him and didn't suspect any danger, when there was no need to kill her.
The fact she loved him and was crazy means little to that fact.
Again I already addressed the capture point earlier.
Lelouch did not simply shoot an enemy soldier. he shot an enemy princess who was not guilty by reason of insanity and who would have made a great hostage to stop the massacre sooner and save Japanese lives and who had millions of adoring fans who might seek to get revenge on Zero, the Black Knights, and Japan.
Because he wasn't Japanese.
Euphemia ignored chances to shoot Lelouch for second after second because she didn't want to shoot him.
Therefore the Geass couldn't care less about killing him.
Or she would have searched for more Japanese to kill.
If Lelouch had asked her to surrender to him so he could protect her from the angry mobs who wanted to kill her and maybe some time in the future she could continue what she was doing she would probably have surrendered.
She was clearly searching for more Japanese to kill as she left the mecha and while Lelouch approached.
Again the necessity weihed more on killing her then capturing her
Lelouch could have captured her as soon as she left the wreckage of her nightmare.
Remember that Lelouch had to do what was best for tthe entirety of the Japanese people not just himself
Only to find it is in fact a rotten apple which needs to be disposed of
She was like a ripe fruit waiting to be captured and taken prisoner.
Not even close but nice try
Killing her was extremely close to killing a captured or surrendered prisoner.
Does this mean they made the wrong choice? NO
Many men have felt intense guilt for killing enemy soldiers or criminals even though they felt they had no choice.
Still no relevance here.
Many have wished that some how it had been different and it had been safe and easy for them to capture instead of kill.
Wanting something is not the same as needing to DO something.
What chance to kill him?
Lelouch had a wonderful rare chance to capture someone who had no power to force him to kill her instead, and who also loved and trusted him so much that he was confident that she would not take the chance to kill him that he offered her.
He knew she knew he wasn't Japanese and so would not shoot.
Besides even if it was the easiest capturing her was not the best choice for him.
Threw it away because he needed to what was best for those under his command.
Lelouch threw away what many others wished that they could have had.
He took a terrible burden on himself to do so but necessity won out over personal feelings.
Heres a quote from the show from lelouch
Euphemia was not the Britannian commander at the battle of Fuji.
"When I think about, you were Euphie long before you were Deputy Vicerine or the Third Princess" (And a couple of Miinutes later Dalton refers to her as Deputy Vicerine as well)
Deputy Vicerine is one of their highest ranks is it not?
Even higher then General?
Which means she outranked Dalton did she not?
The Britannians were not planning a battle there.
A battle occured and Euphie as both Princess and Deputy Vicerine was the Highest Ranking there and could outrank any of the others.
All of this is irrelevant to the fact the Euphemia held the Highest rank.
Euphemia was presiding over the opening of the SAZ and beginning her administration of it. The Britannian soldiers were there to keep order and to protect Euphemia from any possible trouble and were under the command of General Darlton who even sat on a throne beside Euphemia's throne. After Darlton vanished they would have been commanded by his second in command under Euhemia's overall political leadership. And Euphemia only took a personal part in the fighting because the geass command made her do it, as Lelouch knew.
She commanded the troops at Fuji.
Not Dalton or one of his Subordinates.... EUPHEMIA!
Euphemia gave an order and no other oficer tried to countermand it or question it (Besides Dalton) who as second in command could question but lacked the authority to countermand her orders.
So to Say she wasn't the leader begs the Question.
Why didn't Dalton or or of the subordinatres countermand the massacre order?
A.Because they couldn't!!!!!!!
Lelouch would have no knowledge this would occur and so not factor into his thinking and juticication for the killing.
It made her a criminal in the eyes of the world for a year until the "Evil Emperor Lleouch" admitted that he had given her the order to kill the Japanese.
He knew she was innocent only for a reason he could not tell for risk losing all that he had worked for to bring Japan as far as he did.
Lelouch already knew that she was innocent in episode 23 so the massacre was no justification for killing her.
And Euphemia did not know that Lleouch/Zero was going to attack her.
Maybe but then we will never know will we.
Otherwise she would have done something about it, like shooting him in the back, begging for mercy, running away, or at least asking what his intentions were.
Anything more is simply conjecture
At the time she was shot she was still muttering about killignJapanese and it was still active when with Suzaku before becomming delerious and finally dying.
I believe that between apologizing to Lleouch and asking him to help administer the SAZ Euphemia's subconscious mind defeated her geass command and Euphemia was mostly freed from it's control.
And thus she had no clear memory of the massacre and no suspicion that Lleouch had any motive to attack her.
In the end it is not the way of war to tell people you are about to shoot them.
You don't see snipers standing around telling their targets they are about to get shot so they can shoot the sniper first.