Yep. totally sick of it. you must have experienced it yourself, otherwise intelligent and perceptive humans who wince at the thought of ANY calculation they might have to do. Its far too common, and completley redundant. As thread drifted as we got tho, i rather enjoyed our little debate. Thank you

Algebra is when math gets particularly hard because it is where pattern matching truly kicks in. Arithmetic and a few geometric formula are the only things you'll be exposed to before you have to start learning algebra. So you're griping about people not knowing how to use simple formula and arithmetic?

Pattern recognition can be dealt with rationally and intuitively, some people are more iinclined to it like with anything, but it is a rational logical proicess that can be taught like any other. once again, math should be the simplest of the subjects due to its lack of grey area and absolute nature, ther is no maybes, either your calculation is right or it isnt. And no, i dont find history challenging, youre right there, but i only find it selectively interesting, which is obviously down to my own bias. Composition of essays you meant then huh? well, i guess my paradigm ultimately poineted me to music, maybe a clearer definition of terms on your part might have helped :P "Composition" is vague. And ill agree that a lot of the later math isnt for everyone, but thats not what i was griping about. im just fed up of smart people not doing simple everyday math because "math is hard" when it bloody well isnt. if you can speak a language, you can do everyday math.

I don't know a lot of people who find history or composition challenging. Do you find it challenging? If so, then that is uncommon. Composition is about writing essays, not music. The thing about formula is that many people struggle to understand how to use or when to use them. Learning formula is one of the easier things to do in math anyway. People tend to get a lot more stuck on things like using algebraic properties to simplify algebraic expressions correctly. Things that require pattern recognition are not as easy as learning straight facts.

not quite. i suck at composition and history. you picked a bad example there, music theory is also structured. there is no grey area in harmony academically, its harmonic or its dissonant thats it. speaking from my own experience, math was just a case of learning the formulae and which one was for which situation. youre even allowed to take in a sheet of formulae in most math exams, all you really need to remember is what theyre for. music is very similar to math in a great many ways. the ancient greeks had 4 schools of math; Numbers at rest - standard math Shapes at rest - Geometry Shapes in Motion - Astrology Numbers in motion - Music music IS math, pythagoras has his own temperament, and to this day although it may not be the most pleasing to our inferior human ears, it is stil the most accurate, despite JS Bachs rather more familiar Equal Temperament. We owe so much music academia to the anciant greeks. lol, grey area and unstructured learning in music. thats just funny

The reason many people suck at math is because it is hard. You don't have a lot of people saying "I suck at history" or "I suck at composition", because either those sorts of subjects either can't be evaluated objectively or are made up of concepts that can be learned independently of each other. Math concepts have to be ordered because they can't be learned independently.

Touched on a bit of Calculus in uni, nothing too major. But the poor teaching of math is a pet hate of mine, most isnt difficult if its explained right. I'm fed up of perfectly able minded people saying "im crap at math" when they mean "i dont like math", it mystifys math into some mega hard demon subject, and gradually the attitude sets iin and teh whole nation "suck" at math. meh

Ranting about how nice math is? What math you taken?