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AutisticOtakuGirl
05-12-2009, 04:42 PM
I think it's unkind how people hate Shinji and call him a wuss. I mean, the poor guy has lots of issues. For one his dad abandoned him as a child. He's afraid of getting close to others for fear that he'll end up hurt even more, probably because his own father left him. The list goes on. I personally really sympathize for poor Shinji. Of course that may be because I too have monumental issues including inner turmoil, paranoia, a childhood of being picked on and bullied, many mental disorders, constant psychological warfare, low self-esteem, over-emotional sensitivity, I could go on for hours about my personal despair. I sympathize with him because I am like him. Believe me it's not fun to go through life scarred and tormented. In fact it can be down right scary and depressing almost to the point of possible suicide or wishing you never existed. I think it's cruel that people look at Shinji with annoyance and call him a wimp. In fact it makes them almost as bad as a bully. People have no idea what it's like for people like him. It can be a life of personal hell. So what are people thinking when they put down such a person. I don't understand how some people can be so cruel to others. Come on, aren't there other people out there who sympathize with him like I do.:(

jtdlives
05-12-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm sorry but I can't feel sorry for Shinji. His constant whining got on my nearves while watching the anime. I mean we all have problems and breaking down once in a while is ok, but every episode. I guess thats why I like Asuska more. I mean she was more of man than Shinji was.

JIMBO.
05-12-2009, 05:32 PM
its the end of the world as we know it, there are bigger problems than him being liked.

watching eva past ep 15 makes me mad :banghead:

Dr. Hax
05-12-2009, 05:35 PM
He really was a whiny little...you get the idea...

So...I give thee...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPtFxvtfH9I

blackrosetwilight
05-26-2009, 10:06 PM
People hate him becuase sometime he reminds people of themselves and they refuse to admit it. Me I've can relate sometimes such as being forced to grow up to fast and this was when I was only 14 but as I got older I didnt really care for what other think anymore and looking back, even I hate the young me for being so pathetic, so its easy to see why many people hate him, that or he seems to become more of wimp after he does something cool every now and then but moslty wimpy.

Funkgun
05-30-2009, 03:48 AM
I would say to some people, try the manga Angelic Days. Shinji is actually kinda likable in it.

i_say_sabotage
06-04-2009, 12:29 PM
I dunno... I was really young when I watched the anime and he still struck me as the "whiny main character"...

[EDIT]: So you say he has issues... ALL main characters have issues... But it's how they deal with these issues that make us like them or hate them. I guess he's just not made to be that likeable.

veeMachi
06-04-2009, 12:30 PM
Knowing why a person being a whiny little b-och doesn't change the fact that they're still damn annoying.

If he started out as one, went though a Heroic BSOD early in the series, and then started to get is act together then I probably would have actually liked the guy.Annoyingly, that never happens. He just keeps on complain with that high pitched I-got-no-balls voice of his line after line after line.

IFS
06-04-2009, 12:49 PM
Alot of people have pain in there lives, but they learn to deal with it as the grow up, some in positive ways and others in negative, but shinji let people get hurt because he was to afraid to do anything alot of lives could have been saved if he just manned up a little

Shinn Kamiyra
06-04-2009, 08:54 PM
I think it's unkind how people hate Shinji and call him a wuss. I mean, the poor guy has lots of issues. For one his dad abandoned him as a child. He's afraid of getting close to others for fear that he'll end up hurt even more, probably because his own father left him. The list goes on. I personally really sympathize for poor Shinji. Of course that may be because I too have monumental issues including inner turmoil, paranoia, a childhood of being picked on and bullied, many mental disorders, constant psychological warfare, low self-esteem, over-emotional sensitivity, I could go on for hours about my personal despair. I sympathize with him because I am like him. Believe me it's not fun to go through life scarred and tormented. In fact it can be down right scary and depressing almost to the point of possible suicide or wishing you never existed. I think it's cruel that people look at Shinji with annoyance and call him a wimp. In fact it makes them almost as bad as a bully. People have no idea what it's like for people like him. It can be a life of personal hell. So what are people thinking when they put down such a person. I don't understand how some people can be so cruel to others. Come on, aren't there other people out there who sympathize with him like I do.:(

Sympathizing with the character of Shinji Ikari doesn't change the irrefutable truth that, in the original Evangelion, he pretty much went on a downwards spiral from a young boy with some confidence issues to a failure of what most identify with as the 'hero' figure in anime. I mean, even come the end of the series with "End of Evangelion," all he did was sit in the cockpit of EVA 01 and pretty much go into mental shock after mental shock while the rest of our cast did all the fighting.

This isn't to say that Shinji doesn't have his appeal from time to time. As a matter of fact, I was actually growing to like him come the end of the actual anime series. At least then he was actually beginning to realize the worth of his own existence for the pure simple sake of being alive rather than being a tool for his father as an EVA pilot. However, the movie, quite plainly and simply, shattered that small bit of hope that I had for Shinji. Come the end, I lost all expectation for the small boy upon whose shoulders the fate of the world would manage to overcome at least a significant portion of his own weakness and turn into a somewhat respectable man.

SigmaSD
06-04-2009, 09:31 PM
I guess people hate him because he thought he was the only one with problems. He was just going through things that every teenager his age goes through.

OtakuGal
06-10-2009, 03:13 AM
I think all the people blaming Shinji and going "we all have problems" are complete imbeciles.

Try having the weight of saving of all of existence put on your shoulders as a tween, forced to fight to the death by your abusive father with an equally depressing childhood.

What are your issues compared to that? The guy is essentially a child soldier going under immense amounts of psychological trauma and stress.
And people find him whiny and cowardly? He's just a poor kid, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did sanity-wise, it proves he's stronger than your average person if you ask me.

IFS
06-10-2009, 03:28 AM
I think all the people blaming Shinji and going "we all have problems" are complete imbeciles.

Try having the weight of saving of all of existence put on your shoulders as a tween, forced to fight to the death by your abusive father with an equally depressing childhood.

What are your issues compared to that? The guy is essentially a child soldier going under immense amounts of psychological trauma and stress.
And people find him whiny and cowardly? He's just a poor kid, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did sanity-wise, it proves he's stronger than your average person if you ask me.thats exactly it he has to save the world there is no time to feel sorry for yourself, yes I get he has pain and problems, but cry about it in your own time not when lives are at stake, and I think its an honour to be chosen to save the world.

Ipsilon V
06-19-2009, 05:57 PM
I think its a failure from the part of the people that hate him, to realize the magnitude of what shinji goes through.

To start, he's a sensitive guy. He lives in a post-apocalyptic world that is reaching another apocalypse. No one loves him, and that is a fact. Katsuragi is the only person that gets somewhat close to him, and she is herself pretty mentally unreliable as a grown up.

His job is to rip angels appart, angels who shed a liquid that looksvery much like blood. going through the events of the evas is enough to make anyone go insane. Some people would go into denial, some would force themselves to enjoy it, others would quit, etc.

Even Asuka, who is stronger as a person than shinji becomes insane. But she is so selfish and arrogant that she is able to become psychotic instead of melancholic. We love her all the same.

People hate Shinji because they think that his emotions are solely based on him being forced to do something, and him not being loved. But the fact of the matter is that his emotions are magnified times 100 by a circumstance that none of us could ever even reach. He's an annoying person, but I understand why he becomes like that. He's not emo, his feelings are very justified.

If his feelings were the same in modern times, then yes.. he would be an extremely insufferable and self-centered person. But due to the circumstances, it's a whole different stories. And if you say that you could handle his life better, then you are just too childish. There is no way of knowing how you will react to such a far-fetched scenario. This is for the same reason it's impossible for humans to understand a 4th dimension, or for blind people to understand colors. The only thing we can do is put what we DO understand, and manipulate that to help us understand what is impossible otherwise. In the case of evangelion, all we can do is get human feelings of everyday life and magnify them to what we think the magnitude of said emotions would be in those scenarios. It's not something everyone can do effectively.

And this is something the creators wanted the viewer to understand. All the people in evangelion go insane, it's something that is inevitable. And each character develops different coping mechanisms and personalities according to who they are... Teenagers are specially affected. Asuka and Shinji are both insane... they had the short end of the straw.

Lordwindowlicker
06-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Maybe because he's a whiny wuss who masturbates to comatose redheads?

Ipsilon V
06-19-2009, 08:19 PM
^^^
That's what I meant.

Lordwindowlicker
06-20-2009, 07:10 PM
I like to be concise.

Ipsilon V
06-20-2009, 07:21 PM
Yeah, but you put him at the same level as any other kid. And it is clear that that's not the case here. I explained extensively why on my other post.

About the masturbation thing... I probably would never do that, but there's no way in hell you wouldn't get extremely turned on. She is supposed to be an extremely hot chick. And she was not dead.. she was sleeping, so it's not messed up in any way, it's normal (Getting turned on that is). Masturbating is a little less normal, but we all make mistakes. Much more so when we are kids.

Being concise is good, but unless you are an excellent writer, it makes your response look half-assed. No one wants answers that had 2 seconds of thought into it, unless it's a youtube comment.

Lordwindowlicker
06-20-2009, 07:31 PM
I don't post for the sake of others, so why would I care about what everyone wants? If you wish for me to elaborate, just ask. That tends to be how conversation works, and we are on a discussion board. Besides.. unless they sound like an illiterate idiot, it would be decidedly arrogant to dismiss someone because their post wasn't as detailed as yours was. It isn't as if I had said "HUR HUR! CUSE HE'S GAY!".

I also disagree to a degree with your opinion on the masturbation scene. Getting turned on is one thing, but if your friend is in the hospital.. you close their shirt if it falls open, you don't "wank like the wind". That shows very little character.

Ipsilon V
06-20-2009, 07:57 PM
I disagree with your attitude towards answering questions. But I agree with the fact that I was wrong to expect a more detailed answer, since you weren't answering directly to me. But since my answer refutes your point unless you provide an argument to support the contrary... it feels like a pointless comment. And if you don't care about providing pointless comments, then that's fine. I just like to be as respectable as possible, even if it is in a virtual environment. But that's just me.

Regardless, I don't see how anyone could put shinji at the same level as a normal kid. If you don't see ravaging angels, and living in a post-apocalyptic world who's fate is in his hands; as being extremely harsh and unthinkable circumstances.. then there's no point in arguing because it means you need some growing up to do before you can come to a sensitive point of view.

On the other hand.. if you do understand, then I would like to hear how you see him as what you described previously. Tell me how a "normal" person would react.

Looking at personal observation on other people, I've come to the conclusion that even though a lot of people talk big, they actually have no idea how they would really react. And I believe (as do the creators of Evangelion), that it would be very similar (to a bigger or lesser degree) to either Shinji or Asuka unless they are chemically imbalanced. Such conditions would make F^*& you up, and as I said before.. your way of coping with it would be defined based on who you are.. but the person you'd become would not be one that you would consider "normal". And I wouldn't be surprised if you turned up very similar to Shinji, without the masturbation maybe.

And I don't exactly see where we disagree on the masturbation thing. We disagree overall because you believe it's shinji's fault real life people hate him... I believe it's in part his character, but mostly his circumstances.. and anyone would be hated if they were in his shoes. I also believe it's somewhat unfair of people to hate him, since they fail to put him under the right lens.

Lordwindowlicker
06-20-2009, 08:08 PM
I understand your points, and agree with you assessment to a degree... but my answer was to the title question. "Why do people hate Shinji so much?". I've never really had a problem with him, although I do think he's a bit of a wuss in general. People are a sum of their parts.. Our genetics, environment, experiences.. they all go together to make us who we are, and that's where Shinji ended up based on his particular "brew". It's very easy for someone to say that they'd man it up a bit more if they were in his shoes, and quite a few of them would just be beating their chests. I just personally feel that regardless of how he got there, and where he was.. He's a bit weak. I don't hate him, but there are other characters I prefer. I will admit that he is perfect for his role in the story, and that the show would be completely different if the character was different, or absent altogether.

Teddy2116
06-20-2009, 09:28 PM
I really dont feel bad for him, yet I don't hate him. I think if he would of gotten a few more hugs or at less a girlfriend he would of been fine. Yet that wasn't the case.

Ipsilon V
06-20-2009, 11:22 PM
Fair enough... good to see a reasonable person :P I thought i was going to have to keep arguing. I do agree that he is sensitive, and he does annoy me. But I also don't like people talking bullcrap, thinking that they would be totally fine in his situation. And as if he has no reason to act the way he does.

@mugen by name
Well... I feel bad for everyone in the evangelion world.. and specially for the pilots. Hence, I feel bad for Shinji. Now, do I feel worse for him than Asuka... no, I don't feel worse just because he is more sensitive. But I also think that if you don't feel bad for them, then you don't really understand the situation very well. Mind you though, I'm not saying you should feel sad literally or depressed, since it's an anime. But you should at least think: "that position they are in really sucks, no wonder they are all so screwed up :/."

Lordwindowlicker
06-21-2009, 01:22 AM
Although I think I might do a bit better in his position. Only because if I were allowed to pilot an EVA.... mmmm.

I also hate it when people knock the ending of the TV series. I thought it was absolutely fantastic.

Ipsilon V
06-21-2009, 02:09 AM
I think I would have to, but I still believe it would have screwed with my head. It would be a traumatic experience for anyone who isn't psychotic.

I liked the ending, although I wish they would have done the movie ending in the anime. I thought it was better, as it explored their psychis. And I don't like having different endings in stories. Like in clannad.. the alternate stories, I don't really like them too much. Which also scares me about the Rebuild of evangelion. Although the animation in those makes up for anything else... That thing was a treat to watch, it was insane.

MangaFanGuy
06-21-2009, 09:51 PM
Hate Shinji?
I don't necessarily go that far but I was never much of a fan of his character.
Now some say they understand how he could be that way and I can easily see how he is a product of his past and the reality he lived in. It wouldn't be easy for anyone to cope with.
What I got annoyed about was that about halfway through he was getting better.
He began to open up and accept things and generally seemed to want to change himself for the better and allow at least some sunshine into the dreary existence that was his life.
then at the end he just seemed to fall back for no reason.
he seemed to just abandon everything that he had worked on for no real conceivable reason and become nothing more then a shell interested only in his own selfish little world with no regards to what is going on around him.
Where at one point he was making an effort at the end he seemed to slide into the realm of a person who was opposite of what he was.
even at the beginning he was more introverted then fully selfish but the end saw him as almost uncaring from my perspective.
And at that point I lost all sympathy for his predicament which despite his protests and the goodwill of other was the result of his own actions contrary to his growth.

Ipsilon V
06-22-2009, 12:25 AM
I think he got better forcefully, and never really felt naturally ok with the situation. At that point, he just broke and stopped trying to pretend he was ok. And the fact that he literally has no one adds to him giving up. Asuka has her own problems and never really tries to be Shinji's friend. Katsuragi is not very reliable as an adult. His friends could never really understand his place, so their advice is pointless.

It boiled down to how he could cope with the situation. And he was sensitive, he didn't have the strength to lie to himself like many people would do. We all lie to ourself, its a normal human coping mechanism that keeps us healthy. Otherwise we would go senile at 15.

MangaFanGuy
06-22-2009, 02:40 AM
While I agree he did get better almost by forcing himself to me it seemed to become more natural after a while. He made an effort and it was actually paying off for him
And he did have people.
Asuka and Rei may not have been the best and like all characters they had their faults and flaws but they were both getting close to him in their own special ways.
Katsuragi may not have been reliable as a professional but on a personal level I always felt she dealt with Shinji very well. She never pressured him too much when it could be helped and actually genuinely seemed to care about him.

I dunno I guess I never felt like his reasons for giving up were justified and that only the slightest bit of willpower would have improved his character dramatically instead of a sudden loss of all good personality from him.

Japandora
06-22-2009, 12:17 PM
I can't speak for everyone when I say this, but I'll tell you why I'm brimming with loathing for Evangelion's whiny, resident emo.

First of all, refutations to everything you've said:

1. He has issues. Who doesn't? Deal with them, stop whining about them.
2. His dad abandoned him as a child. At least his father isn't dead like Misato's. He's always *****ing about it in front of her without any regard whatsoever to how it makes her feel, even after she's done so much for him. My father abandoned me as a child; I didn't spend the rest of my own life chanting, "I musn't run away" like a Buddhist prayer.
3. He's afraid of getting close to others because he'll be hurt even more. Consequently, his loneliness is of his own doing, no one else's, so stop whining. Furthermore, his social standoffishness is not because of his father, it is rather because of peer abuse as a child, as shown in the series through flashbacks.
4. The list goes on? I don't see how it does to be honest.

Shinji Ikari is a psychologist's wet-dream. He is the epitome of the mindset that life is out of his own control. He refuses to take responsibility for his own actions--ever. His father's absolutism and unwavering aura of authority consistently underscores Shinji's failures and immasculating worthlessness. Furthermore, Shinji suffers from an Oedipal complex, making it difficult for him to approach, open up to, or become romantically involved with other women because he feels inwardly he is betraying the ghost of his long-deceased mother.

Shinji Ikari is not scared and tormented, he is misanthropic, self-alienating, and extremely narcissistic. He believes that the world revolves around him and his petty little psychological traumas. If Shinji fears one thing truly, it is becoming an adult. As an adolescent in the throes of puberty, Shinji should be focusing the most on societal integration and cultivating his inner strengths. Instead, Shinji plays the victim and expects everyone to cater to his needs and wants and to assuage his self-created insecurities.

I've written several essays on Neon Genesis Evangelion as well as a wealth of fanfiction, and the one thing I consistently find is that Shinji Ikari isn't really that unique in his pain at all, rather, he'd like everyone to believe he is. His mother died. So did Asuka's, and a far more agonizing death, yet Asuka manages to push through the anguish. Shinji is a weak failure. Friends try to open up to him. He rejects them and pushes them away. Why does he do all this? The most common excuse I hear being made for Shinji is that he's afraid of being hurt. Hideaki Anno's message--the very idea behind the Third Impact--is that life is full of pain and the only way to endure the suffering of day to day life is to share your suffering with others and rejoice in that connection with another human being.

People need to stop making excuses for Shinji. He needs to grow up.

Ipsilon V
06-22-2009, 03:29 PM
I won't answer to the things you wrote except for one or two. The reason being is that you never addressed my main point which is the circumstances that he is in.

He has issues. Who doesn't? Deal with them, stop whining about them.

I mean.. it's like you ignored everything I said and just took me for someone who defends Shinji. Which, first of all if not completely true. I defend all the people in evangelion, because they are all screwed up in their own way. Saying something like that about a 14 year old is even irresponsible in modern times.. much more so in the Evangelion set.

If you wrote several essays and never explained how this true regardless of his circumstances, then all you say is kinda pointless really. Psychologists work on the basis of the situation surrounding an individual. A kid who went on a killing spree for no reason, is not the same as one that went on a killing spree because he was being bullied (both are quite psychotic, but their diagnosis are very different).

Narcissistic? Please look that word up in the dictionary again. He is selfish not narcissistic, a narcissistic person would never become a Shinji.

He is not scared or tormented? If you seriously believe driving the Evas and living in a post-apocalyptic world wont scare or torment EVERYBODY, then you really didn't understand the series at all. Thats the WHOLE point of the seires, to show the effects of such a situation on a group of teenagers

@MangaFanGuy
Asuka would never have been of help. She had the same issues as Shinji, except she kept them hidden the whole series until she broke and went on a rampage with those angels. And even though she was attracted to shinji, they would never have gotten closer in the time they had.

Rei is out of the question. She had no real grasp on human feelings, she could never have helped.

Katsuragi did care for him, but had no idea how to deal with him. You see it in the series, every time Shinji has problems, she does absolutely nothing.

Japandora
06-22-2009, 06:32 PM
You didn't understand anything I said clearly... :banghead:

You asked why does everybody hate on Shinji. I answered your question with my opinion. You got super defensive about it which leads me to believe that you yourself have some sort of neurosis which causes you to take up the crusade defending Eva characters.

Shinji is narcissistic. In psychological terms, Narcissism applies to individuals who literally can't distinguish a world outside their own. Everyone around them--and by extension everything--serves to drive their world forward. An intense self-absorption makes these individuals completely unable to make real social connections because in their mind only they matter. At least that's what I was taught in my psychology classes. >.>

Ipsilon V
06-22-2009, 09:28 PM
You answered to ME, not to the original question.


First of all, refutations to everything you've said:
That is directly aimed at me.. if you are going to do so, please read what I write before saying something that is refuted before it is even written. If you wanna argue, then prove that what I say is wrong. What I say makes your statement pointless, so disprove it. I hate repeating myself, so if you will do the same next time, then just don't post. I'm not saying I'm right, but what you say totally ignores my point of view. People should ignore someone who uses such a way of arguing, but I felt like you had just missed the point. Right now it seems like you are doing it on purpose which pisses me off.

I didn't ask why everyone hates Shinji.. I provided my answer, and you said I was wrong. Yet you failed to argue appropriately, and did so in quite a disrespectful manner (Although maybe it was not on purpose). If you are going to argue, don't ignore the answer of the person you are trying to argue with.

Dictionary.com definition of narcissistic:
1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
2. Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

Take your pick, either one is definitely NOT Shinji. Not from my point of view, not from anyone who understood the series. Even those who hate Shinji. And if he was Narcissistic he would have never been a whinny little boy. Asuka on the other hand, is Narcissistic by the more general and popular definition. If you think he is narcissistic then either you don't understand the meaning of the word, or you didn't understand the character in question.

And trust me, I did understand what you said perfectly. But it doesn't tell me anything I haven't heard before, and my argument still stands.

MangaFanGuy
06-22-2009, 09:47 PM
@MangaFanGuy
Asuka would never have been of help. She had the same issues as Shinji, except she kept them hidden the whole series until she broke and went on a rampage with those angels. And even though she was attracted to Shinji, they would never have gotten closer in the time they had.
However in the time they had she was one of the few instrumental in beginning a shift in Shinji's personality.
In stark terms she was the polar opposite of Shinji.
Extrovert to his introvert.
Given more time before all went sour I see no reason their particular relationship couldn't have continued for the better.
instead Shinji folded at the first sign of pressure and dissolved into a self serving, self loathing.

Rei is out of the question. She had no real grasp on human feelings, she could never have helped.
I always felt Rei had more feelings then she let on.
Not only that she also provided a grounding for Asuka and Shinji as almost the silent support (Both literally and figuratively)

Katsuragi did care for him, but had no idea how to deal with him. You see it in the series, every time Shinji has problems, she does absolutely nothing.
However sometimes nothing is the best thing she could do.
The fact that she kept him going as long as she did is a sign of her ability to work with Shinji.
And in the end she helped in Shinjis growth before his fall as much as any other character.

For all their faults and shortcomings Shinjis problems at the end were solely of his own design.
All the others I can see the reasoning behind their pain and their problems both physical and psychological but with Shinji he seemed to be unable to learn from his own mistakes then finds any excuse to blame others for the problems he has.
And also there (I have to agree) are somewhat narcissistic overtones to Shinji in terms of his self centered personality.

Ipsilon V
06-22-2009, 11:42 PM
I guess we are going to agree to disagree on what the other characters could provide Shinji.

But here are my opinions:

I just don't see it with Asuka, having the mind that she has.. i don't see it happening unless Evanglion lost some realism and made it more into something livelier. She is attracted to him, but she LITERALLY (IMHO) hates shinji for always blaming himself over every little thing. Instead of standing up to the problems, he detaches himself. (Katsuragi also gets pissed of at this).

Rei is a clone... she is not human enough to help Shinji. If you are optimistic, you might think otherwise, but I don't. Part of my admiration on Evangelion is the way the characters are set up in such a realistic manner, putting aside the fact that they might be extremes. Rei with her red eyes and here way of being is sub-human.

Katsuragi helped Shinji, but she couldn't have helped the real issue with Shinji, because as she admits: She doesn't know how to deal with it.

Of course Shinji's problems are of his own design. No one is arguing against this. But this was because Shinji couldn't handle the situation as the human being he is. It's not because he was stubborn to connect with the people surrounding him. I'm not so optimistic on Asuka or Rei, i don't think they were ever there or would have ever been there for him in the time of the Series.

And Shinji was not Narcissistic, he didn't love himself. He despised himself, which explain a lot of the reasons for him being the way he is. He was selfish and self-centered, but that's miles away from being "narcissistic". And I still believe he was normal enough, he just was in a crappy situation. When I say normal though, I mean it as in there being many people today like him. They just never really break because they don't have the same circumstances. I can't hate someone for being in a crappy situation unless I shared that situation with him. I understand why Asuka hated him, although she was unbearable too.

MangaFanGuy
06-23-2009, 03:45 AM
I guess we are going to agree to disagree on what the other characters could provide Shinji.
:)I can agree to disagree

I just don't see it with Asuka, having the mind that she has.. i don't see it happening unless Evanglion lost some realism and made it more into something livelier. She is attracted to him, but she LITERALLY (IMHO) hates shinji for always blaming himself over every little thing. Instead of standing up to the problems, he detaches himself. (Katsuragi also gets pissed of at this).
I always saw Asukas hatred not as something genuine and heartfelt but more her way of avoiding pain.
Shinji avoided it by cutting himself off and Asuka used the opposite strategy of trying to drive people off in an effort to keep herself aloof from them.
I don't think she really hated shinji so much as her personality was such that she was unable to express it or deny it except through belittling and "hating" him

Katsuragi helped Shinji, but she couldn't have helped the real issue with Shinji, because as she admits: She doesn't know how to deal with it.
True true.

Kamen Rider V3 Blue
06-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Rei is a clone... she is not human enough to help Shinji. If you are optimistic, you might think otherwise, but I don't. Part of my admiration on Evangelion is the way the characters are set up in such a realistic manner, putting aside the fact that they might be extremes. Rei with her red eyes and here way of being is sub-human.Pre EOE I'd agree with you but in EOE she was willing to end the world for his sake...

Ipsilon V
06-23-2009, 01:29 PM
@MangaFanGuy
Asuka's hate was not completely real, but it was real to her. That aspect of him made her angry, and that anger was very real. I don't see it :/. But that depends on how optimistic you are on the characters. Mind you, I'm not emo, but I just don't really see the characters in such an optimistic way.

@Buster Wolf
Rei did care for Shinji, but she couldn't have helped him at a human level. What she Did after the End of Evangelion was as a half-angel. It wasn't to solve his problems, it was to put an end to them.

Kamen Rider V3 Blue
06-23-2009, 06:20 PM
Well Rei II was becoming more emotional and attached to Shinji prior to her death so maybe she would have tried atleast?...had she survived that is

Ipsilon V
06-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Again, you are being optimistic which is totally fine. But I don't see it, I don't believe the creators had such a Rei in mind. Although in the new evangelion they might make her more human for the sake of fanservice. Originally I think she was designed as an emotionless half-angel who was somewhat confused. You see some humanity in her, but not enough.

MangaFanGuy
06-24-2009, 03:18 AM
@MangaFanGuy
Asuka's hate was not completely real, but it was real to her. That aspect of him made her angry, and that anger was very real. I don't see it :/. But that depends on how optimistic you are on the characters. Mind you, I'm not emo, but I just don't really see the characters in such an optimistic way.
I will admit I am a very optimistic guy.
And I saw Asuka as being a positive rather then a negative force on Shinji.
For all her harsh words she was able to draw him into more of a relationship then he had with many others.
To me the anger never seemed to be serious (or at least not in the sense of wholeheartedly meaning it) and that it was merely a cover and habit.

Ipsilon V
06-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Yeah, you are definitely more optimistic :P. I don't believe Asuka was a positive force for Shinji, because he took the things she said very seriously, and it affected him. You see this when he has that dream or whatever of him strangling her, and after the end of evangelion where he actually does try to strangle her. Of course he doesn't really want to kill her, but you catch my drift.

MangaFanGuy
06-25-2009, 04:27 AM
You see this when he has that dream or whatever of him strangling her, and after the end of evangelion where he actually does try to strangle her. Of course he doesn't really want to kill her, but you catch my drift.
I freely admit I never got that bit.
And Shinji was different in the end compared to say around 2/3 of the way through the series where I was thinking Asuka and Shinji may just find a way to get over their aversion to emotions (Even Rei seemed to be emoting more).
I think for me the end just didn't make sense in terms of Shinji's personality change for the worst and in context of that with his relationship with Asuka.

Sickness
06-25-2009, 03:12 PM
They hate him for the same reason people hate me.
He is intelligent strong and a winner (not whiner). He can stand a beating and other peoples harashness upon him. (ok he is inexperienced and a little stupid sometimes but he thinks a lot)
He is also a very complicated character.
There's not much interesting things for him in life. He only keeps living to find out the truth behind his mothers death, and also the answer to "why?".
And he keeps saying to him self: "Its not important.", "I'm not important.", "I don't need to exist.", "My existence wont change a thing in this world."
And the reason for him thinking like that is caused by other people that go for their needs and desires even using him to accomplish them.
Shinji's life is one without fun.
Get such negative picture: live is ****, you do all the same everyday, everyone in the world is your enemy, ego grows sick and can't recognize inner values, there's no answer to question why people exist (that's why he asks his father why he called him). Many many many ****. He doesn't goes to vacation, he lets Asuka and Rei treat him like he is a dog, but he doesn't give a **** because it means nothing to him he even laughs at them, specially at Asuka that wants to win so much. People that don't like Shinji, don't like reality, because he is representing it.
In my opinion, Shinji just wanted to be a human.

(offtopic)As for me there are very few anime characters I like, because they all are dumb and have critical failures. I like Apolon (not Aporo **** Nippon name -_-) from Sousei no Aquarion, also Kamile from GundamZ is not so bad. Kaiji the ultimate survivor, Kamina and Shimon... But I don't like NGE characters because they are all so sick (thats what the director said himself).