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Ertai87
02-18-2009, 12:32 PM
There are a number of problems with both the Romanji and Kanji in these lyrics.

1) In line 6, the translation isn't even close. The translation should be "Even if the tears forced into your eyes bind them shut". This makes line 7 make a lot more sense.

2) 2nd chorus, line 2: It should be "tsuranuite", not "suranuite". There is no such word in Japanese as "suranuite".

3) Same chorus, line 3: It should be "Sadamerareta", not "Sadamerarete". "Sadamerarete" there makes no grammatical sense.

4) Same chorus, line 3: The English translation is wrong. See item 1.

5) There's a chorus missing between choruses 3 and 4. Here's the Romanji:

Mizu no you ni yasashiku, hana no you ni hageshiku
Furueru yaiba de tsuranuite
Sadamerareta namida wo hitomi no oku tojitemo
Nagareru chishi wo tomerarenai

Translation (as best as I can guess):

Gentle like water, violent like a flower
Pierce with your trembling sword
Even if the tears forced into your eyes bind them shut
You cannot stop the flowing blood

The word "chishi" is throwing me since it's not in my dictionary, but I would think it would be the one for "blood" with a repetition marker.

6) In the last chorus, it's "mitsu" mot "mizu". "mizu" = "water", "mitsu" = "honey", and the distinction is definitely there in the song.

7) Last chorus, 2nd line: Translation is closer to "Drowning my empty prayer"

8) Last chorus, 3rd line: Translation is wrong somehow but I can't say what the right one is.

9) I just noticed this: In line 1, the translation is missing the word "clouds" at the end.

And now for the Kanji:

1) 3rd line, 2nd character: It's not anywhere in the Romanji or even in the song.

2) Romanji note: The "mo" in line 3 is correct. It says "wo" in the Romanji.

3) 3rd line, 4th Kanji character: That Kanji doesn't correspond to anything in the lyrics or in the translation or anything. I have no idea where you guys got that from. Also, the word "kusuru" does not exist in Japanese (according to my dictionary, which is Japanese). The word I think you're looking for is "kusumu", written in hiragana, meaning "to dull" or "to obscure".

4) The "sen" at the end of line 3 is not there in the song or the romanji.

5) 4th line, last Kanji character: That character doesn't go at all with that word, either in the actual song or in the Romanji lyrics (which are correct here).

6) 1st chorus, line 3: The 1st and 2nd Kanji (1st Kanji word) is wrong. It doesn't even come close. You're looking for the kanji "tei" in "yotei" (unfortunately I can't type in Japanese on this computer or I'd show you which one), followed by "-merareta" in hiragana.

7) According to my dictionary, "anata" is not written in Kanji. I wouldn't be surprised if that writing of it was correct though (1st chorus 1st word)

That's just a bit to start you off (I only went as far in the Kanji as the end of the 1st chorus). Note that the comments I made to the choruses should be checked in all 3 choruses, and the missing chorus should also be added.

AzureDark
02-18-2009, 04:47 PM
First things are first:
1. It's ローマ字 'romaji'
2. Link?
3. If you're not gonna bother with the tests don't worry because you're a regular in the JP forum so I'm gonna let you off and set your level myself. However, you actually need a bit more practice if you read my points below.

I never had a problem with Rikanen's stuff in terms of quality, but I think this is a rush-job from her. Most of your stuff is correct except:

R5) Yes the stanza is missing, but 血潮 'chishio' is "blood". The thing putting you off is the dropped particle, which is of the norm in lyrics.

Then I checked the Kanji myself with a few external sources I could get.

K1) It's definitely there; because 嗚呼 is just a fanciful kanji for 'aa'.
K3) It's actually くすぶ 'kusubu', which is the noun form of the verb 燻ぶる.
K4) It's there because it's there, what's important is it's not in the romaji.
K5&6) This is what you call the figurative; using kanji to dramatically portray something else. The word which is sung would be different than what is written by the kanji, noted in furigana in the kanji booklet (or in parentheses in websites).
For 5, it's just a creative variation of 激しい. For 6, the word "fate" has always been so fuzzy that it sparks figuratives such as 天命, 運命, in our case 宿命 and whatever 命 there is available for lyricists to use.
K7) It has and always will be the case that 貴方 is 'anata', your dictionary is just being too rigid.

Since Rikanen never responds to my PMs go ahead and make a final draft. Try and translate everything in your own words if you could. The Kanji however is spotless unlike what you said.

bluepenguin
02-20-2009, 03:11 PM
>Sadamerareta namida wo hitomi no oku tojitemo

I would think this would be something more like "even if you shut the fated tears into your eyes" (i.e. keep them in by closing your eyes). I think the line is all one clause, not two as you currently have it; there's only one verb (that's acting as a verb). There's nothing about "forcing" in there -- unless that's how you're translating "sadamerareta," but that's in a passive, sort of adjectival form modifying "namida" (describing the nature of the tears, not what they're doing), and I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean "to force" anyway. Also, since it's "tojite mo", the "even if..." definitely applies to the "closing" and not to some other verb. Sorry for being so nitpicky, but, well, it's best to have as accurate a translation as possible on the site.

If you end up re-translating the whole thing, I suggest posting it on the Lyrics Discussion board before you submit it, just in case.

Ertai87
02-25-2009, 03:16 PM
First things are first:
1. It's ローマ字 'romaji'
2. Link?
3. If you're not gonna bother with the tests don't worry because you're a regular in the JP forum so I'm gonna let you off and set your level myself. However, you actually need a bit more practice if you read my points below.

I never had a problem with Rikanen's stuff in terms of quality, but I think this is a rush-job from her. Most of your stuff is correct except:

R5) Yes the stanza is missing, but 血潮 'chishio' is "blood". The thing putting you off is the dropped particle, which is of the norm in lyrics.

Then I checked the Kanji myself with a few external sources I could get.

K1) It's definitely there; because 嗚呼 is just a fanciful kanji for 'aa'.
K3) It's actually くすぶ 'kusubu', which is the noun form of the verb 燻ぶる.
K4) It's there because it's there, what's important is it's not in the romaji.
K5&6) This is what you call the figurative; using kanji to dramatically portray something else. The word which is sung would be different than what is written by the kanji, noted in furigana in the kanji booklet (or in parentheses in websites).
For 5, it's just a creative variation of 激しい. For 6, the word "fate" has always been so fuzzy that it sparks figuratives such as 天命, 運命, in our case 宿命 and whatever 命 there is available for lyricists to use.
K7) It has and always will be the case that 貴方 is 'anata', your dictionary is just being too rigid.

Since Rikanen never responds to my PMs go ahead and make a final draft. Try and translate everything in your own words if you could. The Kanji however is spotless unlike what you said.

For the Romaji stuff (sorry, I find "Romaji" hard to say, so I always say "Romanji", even though I know it's not spelled that way (and if you're going to be really strict about it it really should be "Roomaji" since it has an extension)), the only things I differ with are what I said. Everything else there looks good, or else I didn't check it (and don't have the time to do so; I spent almost 2 hours writing the op)

For the Kanji stuff, I'm going only by what my dictionary tells me. I don't know Kanji that well, but some of it looked sketchy. For reference, my dictionary is an electronic dictionary I bought in Shinjuku when I was there in the summertime (model is Canon Wordtank V903).

Also, it's not that I *won't* do the tests, but I can't find them. They should probably be linked in a sticky on this forum.

[edit]Here's the link: http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/basilisk/kouganinpouchou.htm

@bluepenguin: Yeah, I was having a hard time translating "sadamerareta namida", but that was the closest thing I could think of. If you think you can figure out something better, go for it, because I know my translation for it is kind of bad.