Heero vs Extended (GSD)

[B Gundam]

Heero was drilled to fight since his youth, so people often call him perfect soldier n stuff and always put the training as reason for his superior skill. But since SEED there are the Extended (aka human CPU), who have undergone even rigorous training since birth and are even optimized for combat with mind enhancing drugs and mental conditioning, which has maximized their perfomance at the expense of even their life span. Overall more extreme circumstances, with the and are supposed to beat coordinators as "natural" (yeah right) humans for Blue Cosmos. Since non-competitive Extended are supposedly discarded, does that mean the existing ones would be better pilots than Heero? Or does Heero have more up his sleeve (he's a protagonist after all)?

Note: The ZERO system and similiar non-pilot related things do not count as argument.

[540]

I think Heero is awesome he is an amzing solider and they prob modeled all the others after him so id have to say he is the best.

[B Gundam]

I was not asking which one is your favorite, I was asking who'd win a battle, Heero being awesome to you is great for you, but it doesn't make him stronger in any way.

[Gundam78]

I think hero is the perfect soilder even if hes been trainning since childhood and dont forget that all of his training was natural and no augmentations which is the reason for him to have a far more better stable mental condition than the extended

now where to begin with the extendeds, well here is my opinion why the Extendeds are unstable and not the perfect soilders:

stolen for parents(sometimes from birth)
Trainning at a young age
Physical and mental augmentations(a lot died from the process)
you can bearly control them
its only a period of time before the medications were off and they have to withdrawl from combat before becoming more unstable and get shot down

I mean come on the cyber newtypes had more control of them selfs the human CPU is a joke

[B Gundam]

Well Heero had no parents to begin with and was also trained since a young age. Besides, the augmentations include deletion of unpleasant memories.

[Red Phantoms]

Maybe the mentality of both pilot will works. i mean most of GSD are have much trouble with their mental so they can be insulted and act more reckless. unlike Heero who can suspend his emotion and work as the cold blooded pilot. but the most important is heero capability to predicted enemy attack patern. so iif you compared them in the same MS wich had no Zero system then i thing Heero still surpased them.

[B Gundam]

As mentioned in the 1st post, anything that is not directly part of the pilot doesn't count, Heero doesn't have a ZERO system attached to him or growing in him, using the ZERO system is also does not count as part of Heero's actual piloting skill.

[Red Phantoms]

Well i didnt mean to put "Zero system" as the main idea. i mean to say that Heero had more stabil emotion wich led him to act better then Extended even if he only had Leo

[Ikaruga]

Well I would say he would be equally matched, if not, probably weaker than the Extended pilots.

Without the obvious plot armour given to Heero (as seen with the Purple Leo) and minus the Zero System, he might not have much chance. Sure he's been trained to think strategically and has heightened reflexes, but then that's his limit. The CPU pilots (I assume) are trained at this level, and the drugs would help them go above this level, making them work more efficiently. Say Heero was 70% battle effiencient, the CPU pilots would probably be 70% +/- 5-10% (drug effect). But then this is all just speculation

If anything, the Zero System for Heero is comparitively the same as drugs for the Extended, only in this case Heero doesn't have the Zero System.

So I would say the CPU pilots, I mean, who isn't trained about tactics and attack patterns before going into war? Predicting it is nothing if you can't stop or avoid it.

[Red Phantoms]

Well I would say he would be equally matched, if not, probably weaker than the Extended pilots.

Without the obvious plot armour given to Heero (as seen with the Purple Leo) and minus the Zero System, he might not have much chance. Sure he's been trained to think strategically and has heightened reflexes, but then that's his limit. The CPU pilots (I assume) are trained at this level, and the drugs would help them go above this level, making them work more efficiently. Say Heero was 70% battle effiencient, the CPU pilots would probably be 70% +/- 5-10% (drug effect). But then this is all just speculation

If anything, the Zero System for Heero is comparitively the same as drugs for the Extended, only in this case Heero doesn't have the Zero System.

So I would say the CPU pilots, I mean, who isn't trained about tactics and attack patterns before going into war? Predicting it is nothing if you can't stop or avoid it.

Well its true that Extended are already surpass the level of ordinary pilot but as you know as well Extended lability are make them more careless becaus their sensitivity of their own trauma is incrased. In this case i thing hero can find their weak spot.

After all Heero already train in the real battlefield not like extended wich had their ability by drugs etc. You can say like seeing a battle of Ace pillot againts Newtype (with stabil mentaled one) in UC series (Doom tristar almost got a gundam if not being interupted by matilda supply carrier).

So Experiance IS THE BEST TEACHER ^_^

And If you put A heero in the same MS "like B gundam said that no other pilot Thing is excluded" wich mean that their MS in a same quality and if I pretend to use Zaku or leo (UC series) wich evadeing ability is rather hard I doubt they can penetrate Heero ability to adapt well with almost all MS and suroundings

[Ikaruga]

Well its true that Extended are already surpass the level of ordinary pilot but as you know as well Extended lability are make them more careless becaus their sensitivity of their own trauma is incrased. In this case i thing hero can find their weak spot.

It's only after some considerable time that the side effects kick in, rendering them quite useless in battle. However, think about the battle in the first part. Say if there were 3 Extended pilots all attacking Heero, wouldn't you say that would put great pressure on Heero to try and survive? Mind you, this is Heero without the Zero System, and all the GSD pilots have the drug.[/QUOTE]


After all Heero already train in the real battlefield not like extended wich had their ability by drugs etc. You can say like seeing a battle of Ace pillot againts Newtype (with stabil mentaled one) in UC series (Doom tristar almost got a gundam if not being interupted by matilda supply carrier).

So Experiance IS THE BEST TEACHER ^_^

I highly doubt that the Extended are just given drugs so that they could fight. I said that I would expect that any soldier would be trained to use a Mobile Suit, learn how to fight in one in different conditions (space and land) and well as learning battlefield tactics, before being given the drug. In this case, it would enhance their ability to fight, unlike Heero's.

Also what has the last bit got anything to do with this? Amuro was a Newtype, Heero isn't a Newtype. Newtype is basically precognition, meaning that Amuro can see things before they happen. The Black Tri-stars were Oldtypes, and in any case their experience led to their demise, and I doubt they could've taken the Gundam second time around.

Let's look at the facts, the Black Tri-Stars formed the Jet Stream attack a single enemy, in which case may or may not know of the three units. Amuro successfully dodged the first attack, during the second attack he effectively killed Otega by stabbing his Dom with the Gundam's beam sabre. The third Dom with Mash in it wouldn't have been able to do much unarmed... What was he going to do? Use his beam spray and then pummel Amuro to death using his fists?

In their experience, the Jet Stream attack never got interrupted. So experience isn't the best teacher.


And If you put A heero in the same MS "like B gundam said that no other pilot Thing is excluded" wich mean that their MS in a same quality and if I pretend to use Zaku or leo (UC series) wich evadeing ability is rather hard I doubt they can penetrate Heero ability to adapt well with almost all MS and suroundings

So effectively, Heero is screwed? If they're all in the same type of Mobile Suit, Heero wouldn't stand a chance, unless he just so happens to have his PLOT ARMOUR as well as the PURPLE LEO from Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz.. Heero might just survive. hough why the Zaku or Leo? (Zaku is from UC and which one, Zaku I or Zaku II? The Leo is from AC, the space Leo or ground Leo?) And anyway, in your hands you might find those Mobile Suits hard to pilot - you're forgetting about how the Zaku went on with several successful variations - Char's Zaku IIS, the high mobility Zaku II's used by the Black Tri-Stars and Johnny Ridden. Hell there was even that high mobility type Zaku II with two Dom reactors piloted by Nina...

Why not something in SEED Destiny? Like the Windams (lol) or such? Heero is not a God as you would like him to be...