How SEED fails (and Destiny)

[B Gundam]

First of all, SEED desn't really fail that much (but I have your attention right?). However, all these people who can actually consider giving it a 10/10 rating everywhere are probably completely biased or clueless, so for the moment I have nothing better to do than complain about it... but since that would be pure spam I'll do it constructively, so please read before condemning me and when you think that SEED doesn't fail in the points listed then, heck, tell me why, argue constructively etc.


Point 1:

First of all, the storyline. Civilian kid jumps into a Gundam, we've had that before but since its tradition more or less, no problem. Flagship runs with inexperienced civilian crew, well okay a hommage to Captain Bright. Gundams get stolen, and you'd think they have better security measures since 0083 lol. Big space rock thingy gets dropped onto Earth, well thats nothing new either, we keep having colonies dropped at Earth and the Axis even came at us twice. Oh and whats that with the guy in the desert and his girlfriend? Well fine, he had no Gouf and this time one of em actually survived. Then that Blue Cosmos/Patrick Zala thing, which is basically just another Gryps conflict, they even put a big laser in it again. Heck, the whole main plot is one huge plagiate!


Point 2:

The battles. Everyone familiar with it knows that they are all frickin posers, they pose a lot and in many unecessary ways. And you though Heero's wing flap before his TBR shot was unecessary? Well check out Athrun in Infinite Justice! First, draw beam sabres in a posey way, then combine beam sabres in a braggy way (and staying in place while doing that although in the middle of battle), then activates the thrusters and does a totally unecessary 360 degree roll while accellerating. When Somebody is about to attack, there is always a half to 2 second pose (for example the HiMat, before that happens, Freedom must remain half a second with one leg bent and the arm holding the rifle upwards). I mean seriously, when Shinn attacks Kira with that anti-ship sword, he just stands directly in front of him and lifts the sword over his head for 2 seconds... and not only that, he repeats that attack 3 times in a row! Now how stupid is that?! Aside of this rather bothering animation flaw, which probably is just there to make these gullible people go "Woah that big robot is sooooo cool!!!", ALL THE AWESOME SCENES ARE STOLEN. Now the plot was already pretty much taken from the original UC timeline, but heck the battles too?

Please allow me to demonstrate my point with 3 examples:

-Heine, and the Terminal pirates, with "No Zaku!" and "Jet Stream Attack!", but thats obvious and that alone not really severe.

-Kira launches in Strike Freedom and beats a team of Goufs as well as some flagships, the enemy captain reveals that they "haven't even been fighting for 3 minutes!" Impressive? Well what happened when the battle worn White Base was escaping the Zeon fleet with the help of a Zeon civilian? The Zeon captain sends a Rick Dom squad which takes its time to completely surround it, ready to attack at the slightest hint of hostile action, the following battle had them Zero in on the Gundam and every single one of them was wrecked. The captains comment? That they "haven't even been fighting for 3 minutes!". And RX-78-2 didn't have a second beam rifle, PS Armor, some nuclear reactor giving it infinite energy and a set of Super DRAGOONs, in fact, it ran out of ammo in that fight! Kira merely repeated what Amuro did under much more difficult circumstances.

-"Choreography" of awesome scenes are also ripped:

The real thing:

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/9579/originalrw9.png

SEED/SEED Destiny:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7210/gsdrecyclingin6.gif


Point 3:

Logic issues. When Heero can survive although he should have died about 2-3 times (burnt, crushed and evaporated), we weren't that surprised, because Gundam W lacks common sense anyways. But SEED is trying to be realistic (which should be noted that its a rather good thing in some aspect), so how did Mwu survive when his unit got pulverized? I mean as Quattro seemingly died, we at least saw an intact Hyaku Shiki torso, but from Mwu we see his helmet, can he breathe in space?!


Point 4:

The Characters, while they have more developement than Gundam W ones (not that hard), all look the frickin same. No really, they define themselves by wierd hairstyles and dye. A whole deal of semi-important people either have some odd hair or colored hair (Athrun, Auel, Clotho, etc.), some are lucky enough to get a scar for identification and only very few can be distinguished by face alone (Sting Oakley for example). What, you don't believe me? Then participate in the poll!

Poll Question: who is this person?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4752/whoqu0.jpg

If you include the name of your guess in a post or PM, I will eventually PM yo revealing the true identity AND I will be impressed enough to +rep you! Of course, you may also bow before my greatness while chickening out with an abstain.

I removed hair in face and eye color, you only see the face, can you tell who that is? I bet no, prove me wrong by voting on the right person, I bet noone could even tell if this "Hirai standard face" is male or female! I mean its not that hard in the UC, you could even tell 0079 amuro from 0093 Amuro. The only major person who really had colored hair was Kai Shiden, and anyone could tell his face! In fact, in gundam W there's a reference to him, a white haired guy and friend of Relena who was named "Kai". Despite having white hair and a different hairstyle and way of dressing, he is clearly identified as reference to Kai Shiden by his face, because the face is an individual, something that Gundam SEED is unfamiliar with until the ASTRAY side stories.

[Reonic Flux]

Hmmmm... My guess would be................................................ ..........................................
Stellar? I think so... It looks like it...

[B Gundam]

It also looks like all the other listed characters...

Well if you guess its Stellar then cast your vote and I'll tell you who it is later.

[l.c. KLAC]

all i see is GS jealousyfrom a person who got issued with GS series.

besides the uc fans vs GS is really getting out of control & when will you uc fans going to accept the GS?

[sophea]

all i see is GS jealousyfrom a person who got issued with GS series.

besides the uc fans vs GS is really getting out of control & when will you uc fans going to accept the GS?

Why is it that whenever this type of topic comes up you're always going off on how everyone is jealous of GS/GSD? B Gundam is just making some points. If you actually took the time to watch the UC series, you'll notice that GS/GSD borrowed a whole bunch of things from them.

Anyways, I have no clue who that person is. They all look the same without the hair and eye color.

[B Gundam]

besides the uc fans vs GS is really getting out of control & when will you uc fans going to accept the GS?
I never said I don't accept the CE, I also never mentioned that people should not like it and I haven't blamed SEED/GSD for anything that it does not deserve to be blamed for.

all i see is GS jealousyfrom a person who got issued with GS series.
Yes, I have issues with GS/GSD, hence this thread (figures huh?), did you find that out all by yourself? As for your comment, if you look at the top of my post you can find:

so please read before condemning me and when you think that SEED doesn't fail in the points listed then, heck, tell me why, argue constructively etc.

If you think otherwise than me, then by all means, describe *why*. Read, think and post in that order without leaving anything out. I have asked you all to argue constructively, but what do you do? Insult the poster... Like that makes SEED any better, smaaaaaaaart move there kid. It only proves that at least one of the following is true about you:

-You are incapable of reading/properly understanding what you see = You fail @ understanding
-You read, but while incapable of a proper argument, you thought putting other people down instead would be a smart thing to do = You fail @ thinking

I do not deem a person who is either incapable of understanding or thinking or both as person capable of giving a credible opinion, people like you are responsible for the bad reputation of CE fans among UC hardliners, shame on you. Please stay away in future favor of the GS/GSD fan community's credibility.

[blackrosetwilight]

Im guessing is it lacus dont know why but I decide to pick the one most likely not to be picked, so anyway are you saying that CE is pratily a remake of the UC......

[God_Kouji]

A biased post at that. I mean a biased topic starter.

[B Gundam]

@blackrosetwilight

Im guessing is it lacus dont know why but I decide to pick the one most likely not to be picked, so anyway are you saying that CE is pratily a remake of the UC......

Well then go for Lacus and submit, anything is better than adding yourself to the chicken count of approx 30 people who viewed the thread but lacked the guts to vote lol.

so anyway are you saying that CE is pratily a remake of the UC......

No, its not a remake and does have enough own plot which keeps it from becoming "complete parody". But there is still too much taken out of it, and its not even for comical reasons (like in Sgt. Frog, the absurd amount of Gundam is understandable) so that its getting mighty close to "ripoff". I mean sure, every Gundam anime has some elements of the original, say, a masked villain. And as I stated, there are moments where such references are harmless to good, like Heine was actually a good reference character, a tribute to T.M. Revolution, Miguel Aiman and Ramba Ral, he doesn't get too much importance and remains in a limited appearance without drastically changing anything as clear reference. sometimes, scenes are tradition, like the way a Gundam launches from a flagship by some catapult, but these are just short scenes of minor importance. But putting both main plotline, AND battle complete scenes under such circumstances is just too much.


@God Kouji

A biased post at that. I mean a biased topic starter.

How am I biased? Maybe I am, maybe not, but in any case, you lack an argument although it is explicitely stated that you should argue constructively if you think otherwise than me, but instead, you also prefer insulting people over constructive argument. This makes you failed CE fan #2, now I have the choice to:

-Act biased and assume all CE fans fail @ understanding/thinking based on your behavior.
-Continue believing that there is reasonable CE fan community, under the assumption that only you are not part of it and are stupid as Individual, unlike proper CE fans.

In order to be forthcoming to your criticism of me being biased, I will take the latter option and assume that you fail as individual, upon which I also may ask you to stay away from the thread in favor of the CE fan community's credibility.

[Howling Star]

Hmm who cares if they stole a lot ? Who cares how Mwu survived ? I mean Mwu was damn cool he is like the coolest guy in the series. And the poses well who cares ?
I mean now days there are so many things stolen etc. Who cares I mean I had a great time with watching gundam. So well I don't really care I liked it and also liked the story. The characters look cool too for me. Your aguments are good though they fail to someone who doesn't care about such stuff. And I think that most won't even care.

[Red Phantoms]

Heh nice point well for me its comletely waste to watch SEED Desteny though its previous Gundam series Had almost the same story mostly feom Z Gundam

First
There is a untrained kid jump to the gundam and beat some MS (almost all Gundam series)

Second
Main Chara lost his family in war as so he join the war (Shin to Camile)

Third
One of the key chara from late series still join the war as an another person (change his identity Char Aznable- Quatro to Arthun Zala- Alex Dino )

Fourth
One of the key chara from late series refuse to join the war at the begining but he will join anyway (Amuro Rai to Kira Yamato)

Fifth
The bad organisation will use extreme pilot wich had special threatment like memory wash so their mental are labil (Kyokai ningen-Z Gundam to Phantom pain-SEED Desteny)

Sixth
Main chara love one of "these" labil type pilot but it dosent work well..... you know it yourself (Camile- Four to Shin- stellar)

Seventh
The female labil pilot from an antagonist will use a very huge dark colored MA wich is refered as gundam (Four- Psycho Gundam to Stelar-Destroy Gundam)

Eight
Some reson of the war is the struggle of two type of human wich one of the side willing to eliminate the other without trace (Coordinator/Zaft - Natural/OMNI and Blue Cosmos to Oldtype/EF - Newtype/ZeonandNeo Zeon)

well this only a few example. I wonder if you can fine more heh.....
as the main mistake for me is this series are bad for gundam fitured as real robot I wouldnt mind if they only changeing the colony to PLANT but changeing the basic of Real robot to super robot i just cant accept it:mad: :mad: :banghead:

[B Gundam]

Hmm who cares if they stole a lot ? Who cares how Mwu survived ? I mean Mwu was damn cool he is like the coolest guy in the series. And the poses well who cares ?
I mean now days there are so many things stolen etc. Who cares I mean I had a great time with watching gundam. So well I don't really care I liked it and also liked the story. The characters look cool too for me. Your aguments are good though they fail to someone who doesn't care about such stuff. And I think that most won't even care.
I do not object, what you personally prefer is your thing, if you don't care about anything you could of course, also afford to like anything. Unfortunately for me, I do not share your blissful ignorance.


Some reson of the war is the struggle of two type of human wich one of the side willing to eliminate the other without trace (Coordinator/Zaft - Natural/OMNI and Blue Cosmos to Oldtype/EF - Newtype/ZeonandNeo Zeon)
Titans is the keyword here, the rest of the feddies were clueless thru half the series.

as the main mistake for me is this series are bad for gundam fitured as real robot I wouldnt mind if they only changeing the colony to PLANT but changeing the basic of Real robot to super robot i just cant accept it
SRW player eh? Lol. I always thought when Athrun combines his sabres, he could yell "Daboru Harken!" or something in that direction, or Kira during the HiMat "Dan Ku Hou! - Yaaatte Yaruze!". But to be honest, I still consider SEED as real robo because ots halfway plausible for the moment. W however, is clearly super robot to me.

[l.c. KLAC]

all i see is just rubish besides GSD did debut in 04 also 04 was gundam 25th year so GS was trying to honor uc with GSD.

but uc fans went crazy to screw the GS era.

[B Gundam]

Well they would probably not screw it if it wouldn't have so many flaws, I mean that you honor something is one thing, but then do it right. Like G-Saviour, that was the big experiment of a Gundam Live action but it majorly failed (and that was a UC thing). And G Gundam, which was a bunch of nonsense but it was good in own right as in trying something new and it had style, people who watch it know that they aren't trying to make all too much sense.

There are proper ways to honor Gundam, there was the Correct Century and the moustache of Turn A was VERY controversal, but everybody admitted to the acceptable plotline which was quite good and new despite the 1st few episodes to seem very flat and that moustache looking aweful.

Its not a coincidence that many people who know Gundam in detail despise CE (and AC), and its also not like they are dead inclined of all UC being good (You won't be likely to ever find a UC fan who likes G-Saviour, believe me) and everything else being bad (Mainly Turn A and Gundam X, which was cheered at Otacon - right after booing off Wing). A blind hate towards new directors and character designers can also be excluded from concern due to general acceptance of 8th MS Team, Stardust Memories, etc. Personally, I liked GS for the first few episodes before the "Wow this is new" part wore off and it turned over to total dissappointment (and Destiny had no appeal at all).

Aside of the fact that I replied to what you said, your post does not contradict any of the points, the thesis that SEED fails in the noted aspects therefore still stands.

[osborn]

First Its NO about UC vs CE anymore.
I liked wing much better than seed, and from UC there is like only 2 series that i really really liked.
I didnt even watched the original and Z gundam before watching seed and i noticed right away how much seed failed.

I have no problem with them taking things(or stealing) from the other gundams.
Mainly i didnt like seed because of the characters, How much fail can they get? Kira was supposed to be the leading main and his whining and angst was unbearable(along with everybody elses). And they introduce a racist ***** character like flay to make sure things stay as fail.
They even make kira look like an ******* by the way he treated sai...Completly unnecesary.

I mean you have several cool characters that could be developed all over the place, but what do they do? They keep concentrate on kira whining, and flay being a *****. WTF?
The fact that Mwu didnt even pilot a gundam until near the end.That =Complete failure.

The natural/coordinator BS was just another reason i hated it. By the time they got to seed mode they just could have renamed them saiyans.
Seed mode was completly stupid and i didnt liked how they made all the "naturals" useless by default, Why do that?. All in the name of making the main character "special". Dont do it at the expense of the rest of the characters being useless.

The gundams were getting pretty ridiculous with freedom and his aimbot lazers, are you telling me the only way they found of making an interesting gundam is to make it shoot lazers out of its ***? Oh boy...

Destiny well, is not even necesary to go there :laugh:.

[Thingle]

GS/GSD fails in the character design category.

Uniforms + Bad hair = 0/10

[Aizmov]

SEED fails on more than just character design, Gundam has been repetitive ever since the First Gundam.

[SGI]

I will admit, first off, that I am a self confessed UC fan when it comes to Gundam. So I, like everybody here who has posted anything resembling a preference am biased.

I am not the biggest fan of the CE timeline Gundam series. I find them to be contrived and overly preachy. Destiny especially grated me the wrong way, not only changing the lead role halfway through to somebody whose story had completely finished and therefore had no character development whatsoever, but furthermore, failed to take advantage of one of the most interesting events in recent Gundam history (that is the ‘break the world’ incident) which generated some excellent parallels to current events.

But, to its defense I respect one aspect about the Gundam Seed series, that it has brought attention back to Gundam, and has encouraged people to watch the other great entries in the metaseries.

The CE Gundam (except Stargazer which I greatly enjoyed) isn’t all-bad. It just has some awful down points.

And Lacus bugs me in the worst possible way and is probably one of my most disliked Gundam characters ever.

[blackrosetwilight]

SEED fails on more than just character design, Gundam has been repetitive ever since the First Gundam.
not g gundam

[SGI]

not g gundam

Might I also add Turn A Gundam to that. It was probably the most unique and different of all the Gundam series to date.

[sya]

Fllay Allster..

[B Gundam]

not g gundam
G Gundam, while I like it very much for some reason, is actually quite low on common sense.

It also doesn't try to be anything else and was all in all original, it also beats the series produced after (Wing) in about every aspect but graphics quality.

However, as mentioned, G Gundam doesn't belong in such comparisons as its a bit far off.

But, to its defense I respect one aspect about the Gundam Seed series, that it has brought attention back to Gundam, and has encouraged people to watch the other great entries in the metaseries.

Wow, the first pro-CE argument that made sense. I am aware that if somebody watches SEED or Wing to start off, the aspects of a Gundam Anime are taken up unfiltered from well, seeing the main UC timeline already which is why I don't blame anyone for liking a CE or other series. So yes, SEED and those toonami broadcasts (for those who get toonami) like Wing and G Gundam did do a lot to bring up the awareness of Gundam among people (In fact, according to Wikipedia SEED stagnated in popularity because of an oversaturation of G Gundam), but since G is a class for itself the more "realistic" ones count, such as SEED mainly (aside of allt he plot holes and Mwu)

[Reonic Flux]

A biased post at that. I mean a biased topic starter.
Uhh...How in the world does this topic be biased? I mean the person who created the topic apparently has good knowledge of all Gundam universes, mine being mostly based on CE... and that person has explanations how good this universe is and how it is bad... And I'm not up-to-date...

[Howling Star]

btw I guessed on the pic a time ago. And well I think I submit it wasn't sure first. But I voted as second on Nicol Amalfi. It was nog a guess it was a accident of a click. So I never replied but now I do muhahahaa. =p

[Yuuki Kurosu]

Hmm...I think I will guess: Fllay, b/c no one has picked her and I just have a slight feeling it might be her even though I am probably wrong x3
Edit: Ah-heh. Okay so I looked at the poll just now and people HAVE picked Fllay xD But I didn't see anyone really post that answer ^.^;; My apologies.

[B Gundam]

Its interesting how many people are going for Fllay, I'll be sending the Result to people who have voted and stated their vote.

@j100: Did you vote for someone else than Stellar? Because there's no vote on her yet