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Velvet_Nightmare
12-10-2005, 05:26 PM
Now, for those of you who haven't beaten [or played] FFX, this might contain major spoilers. Well, you know how FF7 has a lot of mythology in it? If not, read these:

http://www.final-fantasy.it/mithos.html

http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=49858

Well, I have another theory [although it may not be true] on the mythology behind FFX.

I belive the real world setting may have been sometime from the fall of the Romans, all the way up to probably the Renaissance. Zanarkand, one of the great machina cities. Zanarkand represents Rome, and the Roman Empire. Sin, represents everything that led to the downfall of the Romans. As you know, it was Sin that attacked Zanarkand, and destroyed the machina cities. Now, when Tidus wakes up 1000 years later, he finds himself in Spira, or in my case, the Middle Ages. Yevon, is the "religion" of Spiras people. In the Middle Ages, Europe [Spira] was Catholic. In the Middle Ages, the Church forbid and Greek or Roman influences, or else, you were considered a heretic [not a follower of a certain religion]. Yevon, outlawed the use of machina, which was used by Zanarkand and other great machina cities. The Al Bhed, are desert people. They are related to the Muslims. During the Crusades, the Christains were trying to reclaim the Holy Lands [Jeruselum] from the Muslims. The "Holy Lands", in FFX, is the Al Bhed "HOME". During one crusade, the chrisitians went in and killed every single Muslim in the city. That is what the Guado tryed to do in FFX. Of course, like the Catholic Church, Yevon was corrupt. Yuna and her guardians, I think represent the followers of Luther, the first group to break away from the Cathlolic church.

In short:

Zanarkand - Rome
Sin -Everything that led to Rome's downfall
Yevon- Catholic Church
Yuna and guardians - Followers of Luther
Machina - Greek/Roman culture
Al Bhed - Muslims
HOME - The Holy Lands
When HOME was destroyed - The Crusades
Spira - Europe in the Middle Ages


This may not be 100% true, but, it was worth a shot, for more reading, check these links out:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Martin+Luther

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Renaissance%20

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Middle%20Ages

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Roman%20Empire

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/crusades

Opinionated
12-10-2005, 07:32 PM
Damn. You spent a lot of time on this, didn't you?

Velvet_Nightmare
12-10-2005, 07:37 PM
No not really, this is the result of what happens when you fall asleep in class...

-Batman-
12-10-2005, 08:11 PM
I wouldn't really call your finds "Mythology" seeing as how most of them happend/ exist.

Zanarkand - Rome Rome used to exist: Not a myth
Sin -Everything that led to Rome's downfall Rome did fall :Not a myth
Yevon- Catholic Church Theres still Catholic Church :Not a myth
Yuna and guardians - Followers of Luther No idea
Machina - Greek/Roman culture The culture rome and greece followed were real (as far as we know): Not a myth
Al Bhed - Muslims Still a real religion today :not a myth
HOME - The Holy Lands Sort of a myth
When HOME was destroyed - The Crusades That happend:Not a myth
Spira - Europe in the Middle Ages Didn't seem like Europe to me...but none-the less, the middle ages happend: Not a myth

I would call these Historical similarities to actual events than mythology.

Velvet_Nightmare
12-10-2005, 08:14 PM
Well, mythology was the only name I could think of.....

Darth Tyranus
12-11-2005, 01:23 PM
this is a classic case of over analyzing something to give it more meaning than it actually has.

Opinionated
12-11-2005, 01:25 PM
Darth's got a point. It's kind of like Biology. You don't really want to know it, but someone shoves it down your throat anyway. Pretty intersting though.

Sword
12-12-2005, 05:06 PM
Intriguing. I love this kinda stuff. I fail to see the reason why Darth "Merry Christmas" Tyranus has to be right about everything. It could be true y'know.

Loljoke
12-12-2005, 05:10 PM
I haven't played through any of the Final Fantasy X games, so I won't read it, in case I'll play it some day :)

Khanxay
12-12-2005, 06:04 PM
eh..rome, luther, early modern civilizations,....my head hurts...shoulda listened in class.x.x

anyways...yeah some most of ff 10 does relate to history and stuff...makes me wonder what ff7 comes from..

Faceless111
12-12-2005, 06:20 PM
Ah, I really don't care. FFX was a game and that is all it'll be to me.

Khanxay
12-12-2005, 06:26 PM
Ah, I really don't care. FFX was a game and that is all it'll be to me.good point...that takes alot off my mine...eh...yeah..now i forgot what homework i had tonight...oh well...ill just go play a game and not think of relating it to anything.

Darth Tyranus
12-12-2005, 06:32 PM
Intriguing. I love this kinda stuff. I fail to see the reason why Darth "Merry Christmas" Tyranus has to be right about everything. It could be true y'know.I'm infallible, didn't you know that?

Faceless111
12-12-2005, 11:17 PM
good point...that takes alot off my mine...eh...yeah..now i forgot what homework i had tonight...oh well...ill just go play a game and not think of relating it to anything.
Yeah. I mean really, come on. Why try to relate a Final Fantasy game with anything other than mindless hours of leveling up and beating the game. If I wanted a history lesson, I'd be more likely to look at a textbook. I don't want to learn about the American Revolution when I play Metroid Prime or anything of the sort.

On an unrelated note: That new game, Magna Carta, can go shove it.

MistaCloudStrife
12-13-2005, 12:29 AM
this is a classic case of over analyzing something to give it more meaning than it actually has.
I don't know about all of the FFX stuff... or any of that FFVII stuff on those sites but... Theres actually a book that explains everything about FFVII. It connects everything to whatever myth it belongs to... And fills in some information that wasn't explained thoroughly enough in-game and gives alot of otehr information.

And as everyone should already know Final Fantasy games rely on Greek, Norse, and a couple other types of Mythology(Sometimes the bible as well) to create names, places, a bit of storyline, etc... They didn't make up the names Ifrit, Shiva, Odin, Gilgamesh, Eden, Cerberus, Midgar, Balamb, Lifa Tree, Zanarkand... They all took them from a certain mythology and used them appropriately... This should be pretty well known already.

Its your choice if you want to actually read about it, get more information and form your own theories... If you don't, then thats fine too...

DanTheGreat
12-13-2005, 06:28 AM
interesting, i finished FFX a dozen times already...yet i never noticed this

Opinionated
12-13-2005, 04:14 PM
If I want ythology in my video games, I want it in the open. Age of Mythology, anyone?

Darth Tyranus
12-13-2005, 08:22 PM
That new game, Magna Carta, can go shove it.
I'm pretty sure that's just anotehr fantasy rpg, I don't think it has anythign to do with real history.

I don't know about all of the FFX stuff... or any of that FFVII stuff on those sites but... Theres actually a book that explains everything about FFVII. It connects everything to whatever myth it belongs to... And fills in some information that wasn't explained thoroughly enough in-game and gives alot of otehr information.

And as everyone should already know Final Fantasy games rely on Greek, Norse, and a couple other types of Mythology(Sometimes the bible as well) to create names, places, a bit of storyline, etc... They didn't make up the names Ifrit, Shiva, Odin, Gilgamesh, Eden, Cerberus, Midgar, Balamb, Lifa Tree, Zanarkand... They all took them from a certain mythology and used them appropriately... This should be pretty well known already.

Its your choice if you want to actually read about it, get more information and form your own theories... If you don't, then thats fine too...

Mista they are slapped on for effect and that's it, shiva is a cool name so why not use it? Never mind that the god shiva doesn't have a damn thing to do with ice. Face it it's the truth, the games are as shallow as a puddle.

MistaCloudStrife
12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
Mista they are slapped on for effect and that's it, shiva is a cool name so why not use it? Never mind that the god shiva doesn't have a damn thing to do with ice. Face it it's the truth, the games are as shallow as a puddle.

My guess is Shiva was the closest thing to a God(dess) of ice for the Japanese to pick.

There are several names and "powers" that the Indian God has... I read up on it and heres what I came up with...

The Dance of Shiva
The flood of nineteen-twenty-four
Was horrible in Rishikesh
It carried away many Mahatmas and Sadhus
This is the dance of Siva.

The impetuous Chandrabhaga
Turned its course in 1943
People crossed it with difficulty
With the help of elephant
This is the dance of Siva.

In the morning of eleventh January 1945
There was fall of snow
On the surrounding Himalayas
The chill was terrible
This is the dance of Siva.

Lord Visvanath dwells now
In a place where there was forest.
He pleases the whole world.
He bestows health and long life.
This is the dance of Siva.

Forests become Ashrams,
Islands become an ocean,
Ocean becomes an island,
Cities become deserts,
This is the dance of Siva.

Siva gazes His Sakti
Then there is the atomic dance
There is the dance of Prakriti
Lord Siva merely witnesses
This is the dance of Siva.

Then Prana vibrates, mind moves,
Senses function, Buddhi operates,
Heart pumps, lungs breathe,
Stomach digests, intestines excrete,
This is the dance of Siva.

This is a world of change
A changing thing is perishable
Know the Imperishable
Which is changeless
And become Immortal.


I'm guessing the Japanese took what they wanted from him and left everything else out.(The fact that its a "he", the fact the he has other powers etc..."

And I guess they also chose him since hes usually portrayed as a blue god with like, water coming out of his hair. <_<; Also, a few of his most popular "worshiping spots" seem to be in the mountains in caverns where alot of snow and ice stalagmite form...

Yes, I admit it's pretty gay how they would have chosen him(her)... But I don't believe they chose him without thinking about it.

The other summons and places seem to have better stories behind them.(Better than Shiva anyway.)

Sword
12-14-2005, 12:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that's just anotehr fantasy rpg, I don't think it has anythign to do with real history.

Mista they are slapped on for effect and that's it, shiva is a cool name so why not use it? Never mind that the god shiva doesn't have a damn thing to do with ice. Face it it's the truth, the games are as shallow as a puddle.
Shiva doesn't have to have anything to do with ice just because the name is used for an ice elemental summon. Shiva is an Irish goddess, which is the reason for her look/costume. Especially in FFX.

Btw Darth, why do you exist mainly in the FF and Eva threads, If you totally hate them? Is It because you like to tell everyone that they are wrong?

Darth Tyranus
12-14-2005, 02:50 PM
Shiva doesn't have to have anything to do with ice just because the name is used for an ice elemental summon. Shiva is an Irish goddess, which is the reason for her look/costume. Especially in FFX.

An irish god? Are you trying to sound like an idiot? That whole post was stupid, I mean damn that's bad.

Btw Darth, why do you exist mainly in the FF and Eva threads, If you totally hate them? Is It because you like to tell everyone that they are wrong?

iIt's a combination of things, but I hate seeing garbage praised. Especially when talkign abotu how deep it is.

I'm guessing the Japanese took what they wanted from him and left everything else out.(The fact that its a "he", the fact the he has other powers etc..."

I think you're still giving them to much credit, what would help is if we could find anything about the summon shiva or why they chose the name. And at best they cherry picked their data, making it just as meaningless. And mista find me a passage that says eden was a giant floating space ship. Go on I dare you.

Sword
12-14-2005, 03:13 PM
What I said about Shiva is true man. Owned.

Darth Tyranus
12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
When did irish become a religion *** hole? The most popular religions of Ireland are sects of christianity. No shiva.


Shiva doesn't have to have anything to do with ice just because the name is used for an ice elemental summon
Oh and this, this part right here. Proves me right since you're just out right saying it means nothing, dick.

MistaCloudStrife
12-14-2005, 09:26 PM
And mista find me a passage that says eden was a giant floating space ship. Go on I dare you.
Alright Darth... I'll guide you through this one... This is one of the things I was talking about if you just think about it deep enough... It's a pretty short explination so it shouldn't be hard to understand at all.

Ahem...

FFVIII...

Soldiers that train in military facilities called Gardens... From what we've seen, some Gardens can move and become large ships...

(You might already see where I'm getting at.)

Alright... If you go through all books of mythology and such where would you find something about the ultimate garden ever made(A real garden)... This would be found in the Bible... The Garden of Eden...

So Eden is the Ultimate Garden. And the ultimate summon.

Understand?

Sword
12-15-2005, 11:15 AM
When did irish become a religion *** hole? The most popular religions of Ireland are sects of christianity. No shiva.


Oh and this, this part right here. Proves me right since you're just out right saying it means nothing, dick.I can't believe what you just said. You couldn't be more idiotic if you tried.

Darth Tyranus
12-15-2005, 03:22 PM
So Eden is the Ultimate Garden. And the ultimate summon.

Understand?

I understand you're really grasping for straws that's what I understand.


I can't believe what you just said. You couldn't be more idiotic if you tried
What the fuck are you talking about? Everything I just said was true, Irish isn't a religion and you did prove me right.

MistaCloudStrife
12-15-2005, 03:35 PM
I understand you're really grasping for straws that's what I understand.
You can refuse to believe it if you want... But I think you've already accepted it in your head and just refuse to say that I was right.

It makes complete sense and when your eally think about it, you know thats what Square had in mind.

Balamb Garden
Galbadia Garden
Trabia Garden

Like you said... Eden is a big ship. Big ship as in like what Balamb and Galbadia turned into...

Now when you think "Garden of Eden"... And it all comes together.

You can continue to refuse this information but everytime I think aout it... Thats the only thing it could mean..

urrik
12-15-2005, 03:45 PM
i think final fantasy is awsome i have almost all the games but i have passed them all witch is boring

Darth Tyranus
12-15-2005, 06:07 PM
You can refuse to believe it if you want... But I think you've already accepted it in your head and just refuse to say that I was right.

It makes complete sense and when your eally think about it, you know thats what Square had in mind.

Balamb Garden
Galbadia Garden
Trabia Garden

Like you said... Eden is a big ship. Big ship as in like what Balamb and Galbadia turned into...

Now when you think "Garden of Eden"... And it all comes together.

You can continue to refuse this information but everytime I think aout it... Thats the only thing it could mean..Mista you do **** like this all the time, you haven’t stated any facts or press releases from square explaining any of this stuff or why they chose what they did. Yet you blindly defend their honor despite overwhelming evidence that the names mean nothing. What you're doing is in fact called grasping for straws. You want to believe something so badly you are willing to make things up that don't make a lick of sense and require a great jump of faith on the other readers behalf and your own.

Eden was a garden not a space ship. You can go ahead and pull "well it was the ultimate garden so it has to be the ultimate summon" garbage right out of your colon. But you sound like a moron, and you're using fan boy logic.

Thinking anything you love is infallible and has to have a reasonable explanation behind it. News flash mista it doesn't. This is JUST like that time you couldn't comprehend the idea I don't like final fantasy so you deduced that I secretly loved the franchise. That is fan boy logic, you use it far to frequently and boy is it irritating.

Opinionated
12-15-2005, 06:12 PM
I can't believe what you just said. You couldn't be more idiotic if you tried.


Hey now, there's always room for improvement. Yeah and see this is why we can't talk about FF, because some fanboy, in typical dumb... fashion, is going say something stupid, which makes other fanboys think they can say something stupid, and the tread gets closed.

Masali
12-15-2005, 06:21 PM
I hope you all know...Shiva is a hindu goddess.
And for those of you confused: Irish is a nationality, it typically means you hail from Ireland which is an island of the coast of the UK (which is an island). Shiva was the motherly goddess of hindu culture, and since people didn't start associating with the celts until the phoenicians journeyed beyond the mediterranian, which was after the Aryans invaded the Indian Sub continent and even before that evidence of those gods were there. yeah...

Edit: HOW COULD I HAVE FORGOTTEN!? The Hindu religion existed FAR longer before the Celts were even a thought. Besides, the gods the celts worshipped were...abstract and most didn't have names. So more proof that sword has no idea what he's talking about in this case. Like darth said, Fanboy logic.

-Batman-
12-15-2005, 06:49 PM
You can refuse to believe it if you want... But I think you've already accepted it in your head and just refuse to say that I was right.

It makes complete sense and when your eally think about it, you know thats what Square had in mind.

Balamb Garden
Galbadia Garden
Trabia Garden

Like you said... Eden is a big ship. Big ship as in like what Balamb and Galbadia turned into...

Now when you think "Garden of Eden"... And it all comes together.

You can continue to refuse this information but everytime I think aout it... Thats the only thing it could mean.. What the hell are you talking about?

The Garden members were called "SeeD". What do you plant in a "Garden"? Seeds, which will than grow and turn into flowers,fruits, ect.I don't know about everyone else, but too me that makes more sense. Just because something is called "The ultimate" Garden doesn't mean it has anything to do with the Garden of Eden.

As for the summon Eden, just because it's called Eden doesn't mean it has a Biblical reference.Eden has more than one definition, It can also mean Ultimate Happiness, and Innocence. (go look it up on dictionary.com) It can also be ANY place that is considerd paradise.(also on dictionary.com). Now here's where the problem rests.
Eden=Happiness/Garden of God/Paradise.

How the HELL does a giant speace ship that rains lasers down on people happy? or a Paradise? or even a Garden?

Just because something is named after something in mythology, doesn't mean it has the same meaning.Maybe they just called it Eden for the Hell of it? Hell, not everything in the game has some deeper meaning, maybe it's just a name.

MistaCloudStrife
12-15-2005, 07:40 PM
You want to believe something so badly you are willing to make things up that don't make a lick of sense and require a great jump of faith on the other readers behalf and your own.
It makes total sense and you know it.


I hope you all know...Shiva is a hindu goddess.
I already stated this. And it was a he. And he had several powers along with the power of ice.


What the hell are you talking about?

The Garden members were called "SeeD". What do you plant in a "Garden"? Seeds, which will than grow and turn into flowers,fruits, ect.I don't know about everyone else, but too me that makes more sense. Just because something is called "The ultimate" Garden doesn't mean it has anything to do with the Garden of Eden.

As for the summon Eden, just because it's called Eden doesn't mean it has a Biblical reference.Eden has more than one definition, It can also mean Ultimate Happiness, and Innocence. (go look it up on dictionary.com) It can also be ANY place that is considerd paradise.(also on dictionary.com). Now here's where the problem rests.
Eden=Happiness/Garden of God/Paradise.

How the HELL does a giant speace ship that rains lasers down on people happy? or a Paradise? or even a Garden?

Just because something is named after something in mythology, doesn't mean it has the same meaning.Maybe they just called it Eden for the Hell of it? Hell, not everything in the game has some deeper meaning, maybe it's just a name.
The hell??

Look....

Balamb, Galbadia, and Tribia were all military facilities that were called Gardens... SeeDs were top soldiers fighting for thier gardens... This is obviously purposely made to be ralated... Garden and SeeD.

Now Eden the summon was obviously made to look similar to Balamb and Galabadia since both of those took off and became ships...

Eden was a ship just like Balamb and Galbadia, and it was the name of the Garden of Paradise in the bible.

Garden... Eden...

*Slaps limp hand across chest repeatedly*

Duuurr...

Seriously if you three don't get that right now... You guys are... wow.... I mean, wow... I gave you all the clues... You can still think it doesn't make sense... Thats all up to you... Hopefully some smarter people will understand this...

-Batman-
12-15-2005, 08:38 PM
*Slaps limp hand across chest repeatedly*

Duuurr... Really, how old are you?

The point is, that Eden in FF8 is a force of pure destructive power. The Garden of Eden was a peaceful paradise. Garden's train soldiers to fight and kill, the Garden of Eden was simply paradise with no violence or hatred (Just temptations).
Incase you got your info off of fantasy square...
You can't trust Fantasysquare.com either, because it's a fan site.Sure it has plenty of info, and a large portion of it is correct and accurate to the Mythology from which it spawned, but that doesn't mean it has releationship to the game, just coincidence. Gligamesh and Odin were two completly diffrent Mythological figures, both from diffrent regions, and seperated by a few thousand years,clearly no relation too the two. Yet in FF8 they act as if they know each other, and Gilgamesh takes over for Odin after Seifer kills him.
Also, the deplict Gilgamesh as a 8 armed demi-god of all things. He was just a man blinded with greed in his search for immortality. He fails at that, so than go's for eternal youth. After wasting a large portion of his life, he walks away with nothing as a snake walks away with his eternal youth. Which is funny because snakes just shed old skin, so they pretty much already have eternal youth.

*Ahem* now...moving on to the Garden-eden thing.

Why is it so hard to belive that "SeeD" Being raised in a "Garden" Doesn't mean just that.

You have a Garden (Balamb)
You plant seeds in said Garden.
the seeds mature and grow.
soon the seed's turn into flowers , some of them get too big (Squall, his team, and the other SeeD on assignment somewhere) and must be uprooted to a larger garden (The world)

Is that hard to belive? Is this theory really that far fetched?
Eden and the Gardens might have even been a coincidence,maybe it wasn't. Who knows what Square was thinking? They never say anything THIS in-depth about they're games. Hell, for all we know both of us could be right. I however, have a diffrent opinion on the Eden/Garden thing.

And in my personal opion, Eden doesn't look like ANY of the gardens.
To me, it looks like a bizzare fusion between a U.F.O. and a jelly fish. It also looks like theres a headless female shaped object with no arms, but the legs are replaced with a giant needle-like armor with fish fins protruding from the back. Also, the female portion seems to be wearing a cape.

It may sound a bit...Odd, But I guess we just perceive things diffrently.

MistaCloudStrife
12-16-2005, 01:24 AM
Really, how old are you?

The point is, that Eden in FF8 is a force of pure destructive power. The Garden of Eden was a peaceful paradise. Garden's train soldiers to fight and kill, the Garden of Eden was simply paradise with no violence or hatred (Just temptations).
Incase you got your info off of fantasy square...
You can't trust Fantasysquare.com either, because it's a fan site.Sure it has plenty of info, and a large portion of it is correct and accurate to the Mythology from which it spawned, but that doesn't mean it has releationship to the game, just coincidence. Gligamesh and Odin were two completly diffrent Mythological figures, both from diffrent regions, and seperated by a few thousand years,clearly no relation too the two. Yet in FF8 they act as if they know each other, and Gilgamesh takes over for Odin after Seifer kills him.
Also, the deplict Gilgamesh as a 8 armed demi-god of all things. He was just a man blinded with greed in his search for immortality. He fails at that, so than go's for eternal youth. After wasting a large portion of his life, he walks away with nothing as a snake walks away with his eternal youth. Which is funny because snakes just shed old skin, so they pretty much already have eternal youth.

*Ahem* now...moving on to the Garden-eden thing.

Why is it so hard to belive that "SeeD" Being raised in a "Garden" Doesn't mean just that.

You have a Garden (Balamb)
You plant seeds in said Garden.
the seeds mature and grow.
soon the seed's turn into flowers , some of them get too big (Squall, his team, and the other SeeD on assignment somewhere) and must be uprooted to a larger garden (The world)

Is that hard to belive? Is this theory really that far fetched?
Eden and the Gardens might have even been a coincidence,maybe it wasn't. Who knows what Square was thinking? They never say anything THIS in-depth about they're games. Hell, for all we know both of us could be right. I however, have a diffrent opinion on the Eden/Garden thing.

And in my personal opion, Eden doesn't look like ANY of the gardens.
To me, it looks like a bizzare fusion between a U.F.O. and a jelly fish. It also looks like theres a headless female shaped object with no arms, but the legs are replaced with a giant needle-like armor with fish fins protruding from the back. Also, the female portion seems to be wearing a cape.

It may sound a bit...Odd, But I guess we just perceive things diffrently.
Gilgamesh from the first Final Fantasy was a traveller in a cave with mermaids looking for something... You try to open a chest and he fights you for the item... After you beat him, he says it wasn't the thing he was looking for and leaves...

And yeah... The Gilgamesh from FFVIII obviously isn't exactly completely the same as the one in the myth...(You can't expect EVERY single thing to be completely alligned with a myth.) But you said he was a demi-god in FFVIII? Actually I've read that the Gilgamesh in the myth was part God as well... o.O;

And the relationship about Odin and Gilgamesh... The only thing they have in common in FF is thier sword... Excalibur... In the first FF FFVIII and I think FFV Gilgamesh could do Excalipur... A hit that does one one damage.... And in myths Odin is the God that created the Excalibur... Having Odin die and Gilgamesh take the Excalibur form him is(I'm guessing) a joke of some sort from Square... along with his Excalipoor(Changed it form pur to poor in FFVIII) move...

And you can go ahead and not believe that stuff about Eden... It's your choice. But for those that can't even understand was I was trying to say(When what I'm trying to say is pretty obvious and easy to undertand) get the "durr" treatment...

---

-Batman-
12-16-2005, 01:27 PM
Gilgamesh from the first Final Fantasy was a traveller in a cave with mermaids looking for something... You try to open a chest and he fights you for the item... After you beat him, he says it wasn't the thing he was looking for and leaves... Because I was talking about the FF1 Gilgamesh.


And yeah... The Gilgamesh from FFVIII obviously isn't exactly completely the same as the one in the myth...(You can't expect EVERY single thing to be completely alligned with a myth.) But you said he was a demi-god in FFVIII? Actually I've read that the Gilgamesh in the myth was part God as well... o.O;[quote]

You read wrong. He wasn't a Demi-god, he was the king of Uruk.

[quote]And the relationship about Odin and Gilgamesh... The only thing they have in common in FF is thier sword... Excalibur... In the first FF FFVIII and I think FFV Gilgamesh could do Excalipur... A hit that does one one damage.... And in myths Odin is the God that created the Excalibur... Having Odin die and Gilgamesh take the Excalibur form him is(I'm guessing) a joke of some sort from Square... along with his Excalipoor(Changed it form pur to poor in FFVIII) move... can i see a link to that? i find that hard to belive since both Excalibur and Odin are two seperate legends from diffrent end's of the planet.



And you can go ahead and not believe that stuff about Eden... It's your choice. Yes, it is our choice.
I don't know about darth and phil, but I never said that it wasn't believable. I just said it could have only been a coincidence. The Garden of Eden theory was never carved into stone, it's just something the fans thought up and posted on a Fantasysquare.com. It may make sense to an extent,but as I said before, that doesn't mean that it has to be true.


But for those that can't even understand was I was trying to say(When what I'm trying to say is pretty obvious and easy to undertand) get the "durr" treatment...

--- Well the "Durr" treatment is pointless. Really, who does that anymore? elementry school kids?
And what your saying may be obvious, but if other people wish to argue it, i fail to see the problem. It hasn't turned into a flame war yet, but your childish little comment isn't going to help prevent it.

Kit Katy
12-16-2005, 01:47 PM
i hardly get a chance to play any of the FF games

Darth Tyranus
12-16-2005, 03:26 PM
Just ignore the moron, or else he will just continue to make a fan boy out of him self.

Sword
12-17-2005, 08:32 AM
I hope you all know...Shiva is a hindu goddess.
I knew this. The hindu Shiva was also a male god. But I read somewhere that there is also an Irish goddess called Shiva, which is the reason behind her fashion sense. And Darth, Irish wasn't a religion but it was a culture, just like Egyption, Greek and Roman. And they believed in Gods. Why is it so hard to believe that the ancient Irish believed in Gods/Goddesses: http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/celtic-mythology.php?deity=TUATHA-DE-DANANN

Opinionated
12-17-2005, 02:23 PM
Irish is a culture? FOR REAL? Dude you just blew my mind. Nah, just kidding. What the crap was that link about? I didn't see anything called or related to "Shiva" on there. Please don't post useless links. It makes you look like a moron.

Sword
12-18-2005, 08:47 AM
That link was for darth to show him that there are irish gods in mythology. I know there was nothing about shiva, because I can't remember where I read/heard about that.


The point is, that Eden in FF8 is a force of pure destructive power. The Garden of Eden was a peaceful paradise. Garden's train soldiers to fight and kill, the Garden of Eden was simply paradise with no violence or hatred (Just temptations).
Not everything has to fall into place, you crank. They have one thing in common: they are both gardens therefore they called it Eden. Take Ixion for example. He was "a Thessalian king and father of the centaurs, who was punished by Zeus for his love for Hera by being tied to a perpetually revolving wheel in Hades". That is why they made Ixion a horse in the game (it wasn't a centaur because all they aeons had to be anatomically realistic), but it has nothing to with lightning in the original myth.

-Batman-
12-18-2005, 10:27 AM
Not everything has to fall into place, you crank. They have one thing in common: they are both gardens therefore they called it Eden. Do you even bother reading peoples full posts?

And am I the only person who doesn't see a fucking garden when I look at Eden? The only thing Eden has in common with the gardens in FF8 is the fact that they both fly. Bahamut flies as well, I guess that means he's a garden too!
Maybe you're theory is correct, but as I said before... Have you ever heard the word coincidence before?

Masali
12-18-2005, 10:53 AM
Im guessing no, my friend. Maybe it was intentional, maybe it was not. But it really doesn't make any difference to the slip shod gameplay does it?

Sword
12-18-2005, 11:05 AM
Do you even bother reading peoples full posts?

And am I the only person who doesn't see a fucking garden when I look at Eden? The only thing Eden has in common with the gardens in FF8 is the fact that they both fly. Bahamut flies as well, I guess that means he's a garden too!
Maybe you're theory is correct, but as I said before... Have you ever heard the word coincidence before?
Theres the fact that it looks like a garden.

MistaCloudStrife
12-18-2005, 11:21 AM
Because I was talking about the FF1 Gilgamesh.

You read wrong. He wasn't a Demi-god, he was the king of Uruk.

can i see a link to that? i find that hard to belive since both Excalibur and Odin are two seperate legends from diffrent end's of the planet.


Yes, it is our choice.
I don't know about darth and phil, but I never said that it wasn't believable. I just said it could have only been a coincidence. The Garden of Eden theory was never carved into stone, it's just something the fans thought up and posted on a Fantasysquare.com. It may make sense to an extent,but as I said before, that doesn't mean that it has to be true.

Well the "Durr" treatment is pointless. Really, who does that anymore? elementry school kids?
And what your saying may be obvious, but if other people wish to argue it, i fail to see the problem. It hasn't turned into a flame war yet, but your childish little comment isn't going to help prevent it.Gilgamesh was the son if Ninsun...(mother) She was a Goddess. Last time I checked if one parent is a god that makes you a demi-god.

Odin from the legends and such created the "Excalibur"... Gilgamesh from the FF series used the excalibur, obviously since his move was called excalipur... Put those together and you get some freaked out joke about Odin dying and Gilgamesh taking and using the excalibur.

And I don't know about that Fantasy Square place... I thought up the Eden thing myself after Darth's dare after looking at a couple pictures of Eden and reading up on it...

And I don't think any of you really care about flaming and trolling since it comes out of you guys so often about crap stuff...

-Batman-
12-18-2005, 11:53 AM
Gilgamesh was the son if Ninsun...(mother) She was a Goddess. Last time I checked if one parent is a god that makes you a demi-god. Yes...that is only HALF true.
In order to be considered a Demi-God you must have a mortal parent and a god parent true, but you must also posess Some form of Godlike power. I might have been reading the wrong Epic of Gilgamesh, but from what i've read, Gilgamesh didn't posess any godlike powers.
Not once did it even MENTION him useing ANY godlike powers. Than again there's about a thousand diffrent versions of the story. Finder one accurate to the original is near impossible.


Odin from the legends and such created the "Excalibur"... Gilgamesh from the FF series used the excalibur, obviously since his move was called excalipur... Put those together and you get some freaked out joke about Odin dying and Gilgamesh taking and using the excalibur. Can you supply me with a link about Odin creating Excalibur. I've searched about 30 web pages and i'm not finding a God damned thing.


And I don't know about that Fantasy Square place... I thought up the Eden thing myself after Darth's dare after looking at a couple pictures of Eden and reading up on it... So your saying you thought it up yourself? I just asumed that you got the info from Fantasy square seeing as how it's one of the few Final Fantasy fan sites with the same theory.
Unless you can find Proof from square, this hole theory can be argued as coincidence. Give the conjecture's a rest.


And I don't think any of you really care about flaming and trolling since it comes out of you guys so often about crap stuff... Your right, we really don't. We may be complete assholes but at least we don't lower ourselves too the point of retard joke's.

IFind actual proof of your Eden theory. Otherwise it can simply be argued as coincidence. And the second hand guesswork on fan sites isn't valid either.

Darth Tyranus
12-18-2005, 04:20 PM
Sword, you called irish a religion, you didn't say the irish culture or the irish people. You just said irish, and IRISH IS NOT A RELIGION. I'm sure you knew that but were just to much af a dumb *** to put it in to words. Before now you just said irish not celts. Since the religions or the irish are totally different now.

And by the way, irish folks the majority of them now anyway are christian, so NO GOD DAMN SHIVA! So please just shut up, since I'm positive no one cares what you have to say.

-Batman-
12-18-2005, 05:10 PM
^Too true.


Theres the fact that it looks like a garden.
And it may look like a garden too you but some of us seen something else.

Sword
12-19-2005, 10:55 AM
^Too true.


And it may look like a garden too you but some of us seen something else.Like what?

And Darth. Just shut the hell up. I never said that irish was a religion. The irish are mostly christian NOW, but I was talking about ancient Irish. AND I read about that Shiva thing somewhere else. It's not like I made it up or anything. Christ.

-Batman-
12-19-2005, 11:12 AM
Like what?

this further proves my point that you never read other people's posts. I already said what I thought it was.

Darth Tyranus
12-19-2005, 02:35 PM
And Darth. Just shut the hell up. I never said that irish was a religion. The irish are mostly christian NOW, but I was talking about ancient Irish.
You never said celts you said irish, you didn't say celts to well after you posted this.

Shiva is an Irish goddess
Read that? Not a celts goddes an irish goddess. So this is just my way of saying shut down.


AND I read about that Shiva thing somewhere else. It's not like I made it up or anything. Christ.

On a site you can't find no less, since the link you posted didn't have the word shiva anywhere on it.