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Chris
11-10-2012, 11:34 PM
The anime raises the question of just society and answers to it by Hollywood's stereotype - crime is the main problem. The genius protagonist sees injustice in criminals whom he begins to kill mercilessly. I doubt that this approach would lead to significant reductions in crime. A person commits crime not to be caught. You can kill a criminal boss, but his place will be filled momentarily. No one asks what pushes a person into the path of the crime? There is almost no crime in Scandinavian countries, and this is not due to terror but to happiness of the majority of people. Isn't that the major purpose of society? Modern psychology says that to be happy society needs the equality. Oh, you probably forgot this word. In Denmark, Finland, Sweden average income level of 10% of the wealthiest people is only 3 times more than the average income level of 10% of the most poor. Therefore, Kira should have taken over the control of the governments to enact appropriate laws and, of course, laws encouraging political activity of people - if not, what will happen to the world after Death Note ends? Let's leave criminals to the police. I don't believe in free will. I don't believe that a person can choose. Therefore there is only one excuse for punishments. Severity of punishment must be judged from the expedience in accord with the major purpose of society. Social studies show that increase in severity of punishments does not lead to reductions in crime. If we don't want to come down to fascism society has to take full responsibility for the upkeep of convicts and ensuring comfort conditions in jail. There are only two crimes that must carry the death penalty, not for revenge but to bring society to understanding of the gravity of these crimes. And they are corruption and drug sale. There are more deaths from drugs every day in my city than Kira can stick down in the note.

I welcome your thoughts and comments on the issues raised here

PhantomPhD
11-12-2012, 10:56 PM
I agree with you about the drug part. Drugs are horrible and kill millions. "marijuana" is no exception. Not saying it kills, but certainly does much damage to not just the smoker but society. Drugs are drugs, drugs should not be abused, end of story. Even though this thread wasn't about drugs, i'm just agreeing with that specific part because i actually believe a person does have free-will.

Chris
11-17-2012, 01:22 AM
Since you believe in free will, it's logical for you to say that a person had become a drug addict and died of his own free will. Drug dealer is innocent.

Hi, Doc!

Free will implies that there is no cause producing a person’s action. But we all know that without motivation a person will not rise from a sofa. Motivation is a mechanism by which the program realizes itself. The program is the result of our genetics and upbringing (a major factor in socialization). The genetic program differs little from that of a chimpanzee. I can tell you what you dream of, Doc. In your dreams you surpass others one way or another. Oh, you thought that you decide what to dream about of your own free will. Wish for domination is inherent in human being as well as in chimpanzee. The idea of domination expressed in many animes. But I know only one anime expressing the idea that a person’s actions are determined by the program - The book of Bantorra. You can’t understand that one without realizing the fact. The anime has right philosophical charge. One of the best. The following two scientific facts prove the illusiveness of free will.

1. Delgado, J. M. R., 1969. Physical control of the mind: Toward a psychocivilized society. - New York: Harper and Row: “In contrast to these effects, electric stimulation of the brain may evoke more elaborate responses. For example, in one of our patients, electrical stimulation of the rostral part of the internal capsule produced head turning and slow displacement of the body to either side with a well-oriented and apparently normal sequence, as if the patient were looking for something. This stimulation was repeated six times on two different days with comparable results. The interesting fact was that the patient considered the evoked activity spontaneous and always offered a reasonable explanation for it. When asked ''What are you doing?" the answers were, "I am looking for my slippers," "I heard a noise," "I am restless," and "I was looking under the bed”

2. Brasil-Neto JP, Pascual-Leone A, Valls-Sol J, Cohen LG, Hallett M. 1992. Focal transcranial magnetic stimulation and response bias in a forced choice task. Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry 55: 964–966: “The task consisted of extension of the index finger in response to the click produced by the discharge of the magnetic coil (go-signal).
Subjects were asked to choose the right or left finger randomly, and only after the go-signal was delivered. Single, focal magnetic stimuli were delivered to the prefrontal or motor area, and in the control situation, away from the head. This was not a reaction time experiment and subjects could choose their time to respond as well as which finger to move. TMS affected hand preference only when it was delivered to the motor area. With stimulation of this area, subjects more often chose the hand contralateral to the site stimulated with response times that were mainly less than 200 ms. These results suggest that response bias in this paradigm is caused by an effect of TMS on neural structures within, or closely related to, the motor areas of the brain. For the purposes here, it is critical to note that although the response bias was clear and predictable, the subjects were unaware of its existence. Each movement was believed to be freely chosen. It is therefore possible to influence endogenous processes of movement preparation externally without disrupting the conscious perception of volition.”

Chris
11-29-2012, 12:06 AM
I am an ally of justice
Tell me what does justice mean to you?

So, what should Kira do next?

The book Crimes Against Humanity by Rolf A.F. Witzsche has some answers
http://books.rolf-witzsche.com/glass/v1b.pdf

Every fact in this book is true, but I am not sure about their interpretations. So read it for facts.

Maki the contractor
11-30-2012, 06:11 PM
I totally agree with you on that!

~Travis
12-08-2012, 04:57 PM
The part you say about a Crime Boss being replaceable and whatnot. I really believe that depends on the intelligence and organizational skills of said Boss. Yes, if the Boss isn't all that intelligence or anything, he is expendable. However if the boss is intelligent, he is not so easily replaceable. So, it could actually affect the organization the Crime Boss is heading. However, I agree. Crime rates wouldn't go down so drastically. With common criminals and whatnot, there is only so many the news can report, that Kira would know of and kill. Then, even if he did drastically reduce the criminal population, that really essentially is not possible because as you mentioned with crime bosses, especially with disorganized crime, more people would become criminals and replace criminals that Kira had killed off. However, as I say that, I have to consider the psychological aspect of Kira's killings. If I were going from the perspective of a common criminal I would definitely fear Kira. But from the same perspective if you aren't murdering people or anything high profile. So that brings up a question of is Kira really effectively ridding the world of evil people? No. But then again that depends on what you consider evil. Do you consider a purse snatcher evil? Or perhaps someone who deals drugs? I mean, how is Kira to know the names of every single criminal to kill. Maybe some high profile drug dealers, but other than that and murders and maybe a few other criminals.
Also, I do believe we should really just leave criminals to the police. An individual, should not be able to choose who lives and who dies. That is not the job of just one person. That just to put it simply... not right. I mean of course anyone with this kind of power would become psychologically unstable (such as Light). Thus, anyone with this kind of power would be dangerous, even someone who i nice and happy going. But then again, that is if they choose to use the Death Note. Hopefully, a person confronted with the choice of using the Death Note would deem this murder tool wrong, and that no one person should be able to make the decision.
Alright, that is all I have to say. Sorry if I went off topic or anything. Thanks for reading all of this if you did!

Chris
12-14-2012, 08:12 PM
“So that brings up a question of is Kira really effectively ridding the world of evil people? No. But then again that depends on what you consider evil. Do you consider a purse snatcher evil? Or perhaps someone who deals drugs?”

What I am trying to say is that they are not evil. They just can’t help it. As I said before, severity of punishment must be judged from the expedience in accord with the major purpose of society. The major purpose of society is the criterion, without which society can be led in any direction.

“Hopefully, a person confronted with the choice of using the Death Note would deem this murder tool wrong, and that no one person should be able to make the decision.”

If I had the Death Note I would use it without doubt. Doing nothing when terrible things happen is evil. We are evil.

If you watched the movie “Taken”, imagine the father looking at his gun and saying: “I should deem this murder tool wrong and it’s wrong to be able make the decision.” “Taken” is interesting in spite of the fact that Hollywood justifies only egoistical motives. It also touches upon corruption. If it might not be obvious all these heinous things were possible only due to corruption. Do you remember the cop who loves his family? Corruption is the most virulent of all crimes, and therefore should be deemed to be the most hideous of all crimes.

Thanks for the comments ~Travis!

Mystelinth
12-17-2012, 02:14 PM
There are more deaths from drugs every day in my city than Kira can stick down in the note.

First of all i have no idea how many people live in your city. But im assuming you're referring to harddrugs, right?
Since in The Netherlands softdrugs are legal and I mostly heard of cases where someone died because of harddrugs, not softdrugs.

Even if they died because of softdrugs it is nearly always in combination with something else like alcohol or whatever.
Even though this isn't part of the main topic.


I agree with your first statement about criminals rates and the way how they should handle them though.

Jozette
12-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Tl;dr but I do like crime animes ^_^

Chris
12-18-2012, 07:42 AM
Forbuki! Thank you for bringing up the question of drugs, to which alcohol and nicotine belong.

What drugs is. I am not going to preach, that any drug, including cannabis and alcohol, damages the brain and nervous system, leads to genetic mutations of ova (especially alcohol), with a complete set of which every girl was born and which don’t regenerate (unlike spermatozoa), and that it’s the major cause of an infinite number of mentally handicapped children. The main problem of drugs is psychological dependence that is overwhelming desire, craving, to experience enjoyable mental affects. At the beginning, one cigarette is enough, but as drug tolerance increases, a person has to smoke ever more to get the affects, to the point that even 30 cigarettes aren’t enough. Narcotic pills can help. The transition from pills to heroin is inevitable, given ample supplies and relatively cheap prices (dunno about Netherlands). A person becomes mentally impaired, and ultimately dies of overdose.

Political aspects. They say that impaired people and alcohol sale are good for economy. It's a lie. There are many politicians in the US, for example, fighting against nicotine to win an election, but rare who fight against alcohol or drugs. Why? These things help ruling classes to make people politically passive. Needless to say that many movies and anime have a hidden advertising and publicity of alcohol and drugs. Even so called “education” about how to use drugs “safely” is nothing but propaganda of drugs. And of course every child knows that alcohol is good - parents always take it on high days and holidays. What about Netherlands? Think for yourself.

nrL
12-21-2012, 09:09 PM
I beg to differ.

Chris
12-22-2012, 12:21 AM
I beg to differ.

I beg to ask: Why?

nrL
12-22-2012, 12:29 AM
I beg to ask: Why?

Why not?

Chris
12-22-2012, 05:05 AM
Why not?

As I said before, a person doesn’t have free will. But a person has intellect, and thus capable of thinking, understanding, and forming judgments by a process of logic. It's the only way to arrive at the truth. The opinion, which is not based upon logic, is not your opinion. I met many people, and all of them repeat the same rubbish drummed into their heads by the media since their childhood. It’s no fun. That's the way hypnosis works. Vote with your head, not heart.

nrL
12-30-2012, 05:13 AM
As I said before, a person doesn’t have free will. But a person has intellect, and thus capable of thinking, understanding, and forming judgments by a process of logic. It's the only way to arrive at the truth. The opinion, which is not based upon logic, is not your opinion. I met many people, and all of them repeat the same rubbish drummed into their heads by the media since their childhood. It’s no fun. That's the way hypnosis works. Vote with your head, not heart.

Wrong!
Heart is both cooler and hotter then the head.

Chris
12-30-2012, 06:50 AM
Wrong!
Heart is both cooler and hotter then the head.

However, basically, the heart is just a pump - a complex and important one, but still just a pump.

FMBEQ
01-01-2013, 03:14 AM
Well, this world is better off without some ppl... for instance rapists and psychopaths {Kira kills them both}. Enforcing government to enact appropriate laws wouldn't do shit to them... sorry couldn't find a better way to put it.

Chris
01-01-2013, 06:04 PM
Well, this world is better off without some ppl... for instance rapists and psychopaths {Kira kills them both}. Enforcing government to enact appropriate laws wouldn't do shit to them... sorry couldn't find a better way to put it.

There is no need to kill them, you can just lock them in a prison.

FMBEQ
01-01-2013, 09:26 PM
There is no need to kill them, you can just lock them in a prison.then why aren't they locked yet? is it bad government or lack of men in the law enforcement? Rapists keeping their rape streaks, psychopaths going on killing sprees...

Chris
01-02-2013, 04:36 AM
then why aren't they locked yet? is it bad government or lack of men in the law enforcement? Rapists keeping their rape streaks, psychopaths going on killing sprees...

The current economic situation puts psychological pressure on parents and children that may account for the high rate of psychopaths (see BBC documentary “Are you good or evil?”)

According to the information on this web page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_country
USA had at least 4 times more serial killers per capita than Finland, Denmark and Sweden.