PDA

View Full Version : Hiatus!



Bulf
03-31-2012, 05:36 PM
Just gonna give sotw a break for a bit :p

Meenah
03-31-2012, 06:46 PM
Why is there a hiatus for SOTW? There's not even a back up if you can't even do it. I mean, do you need to have one because I can volunteer to do it and whatnot. :c I know that I'm no mod and I just want to help out.

blueangel06661
03-31-2012, 06:49 PM
^ I think it's on Hiatus since no one really has been submitting recently.. No?

Meenah
03-31-2012, 06:52 PM
Hm... maybe~ but I would as much as possible, think of many ways to get people to do SOTW. With a different theme that would be real easy and fun to do? ._.;
I'm too hopeful.

Archaic Devices
03-31-2012, 06:55 PM
^ I think it's on Hiatus since no one really has been submitting recently.. No?

Bingo.

blueangel06661
03-31-2012, 06:59 PM
I'm just going to come out and say I'm guilty of PS procrastination. I used PS to crop something and that was pretty much it for my share of photoshopping lately .__.

My B.

Bulf
03-31-2012, 07:08 PM
It's fine, I'll use the break to recruit more people and whatnot, so by the time I get it started again, there should be a lot of people :p
Although, if you want, feel free to make contests and stuff if you guys want, as long as it stays in the rules and whatnot.

blueangel06661
03-31-2012, 07:35 PM
Sooooo does this mean I can start the GFX area-wide worm that isn't just limited to IS??

Archaic Devices
03-31-2012, 07:44 PM
Sooooo does this mean I can start the GFX area-wide worm that isn't just limited to IS??

Go for it. You can post it in either Graphics Contests or Dazzle Us.

DeathBlade/13.666
03-31-2012, 08:44 PM
Just gonna give sotw a break for a bit :p
Let us know when it's back up.

Zenister
03-31-2012, 08:48 PM
I haven't been submitting because out of the past six themes, I only liked one of them.

Des
04-14-2012, 01:15 PM
The only times I open PS is when I accidently click on the quick icon :P

Vintniv
04-14-2012, 02:37 PM
Okay, I'm going to take a bold approach here. The reason I dont enter or vote, and this is me talking, is because I have a lot of bad blood between certain members as they do against me. AF has not, at any point, been a good place for me to post work and get a serious response back. Most threads for our stuff is solely about stroking our own egos. So when I see a tag, and I know who made it, I judge it usually upon that and just dont vote at all unless I am really really impressed.

The same goes for actually entering, I wont enter if I am going to battle against the people I dont like; and I bet they feel the same way.

blueangel06661
04-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Okay, I'm going to take a bold approach here. The reason I dont enter or vote, and this is me talking, is because I have a lot of bad blood between certain members as they do against me. AF has not, at any point, been a good place for me to post work and get a serious response back. Most threads for our stuff is solely about stroking our own egos. So when I see a tag, and I know who made it, I judge it usually upon that and just dont vote at all unless I am really really impressed.

The same goes for actually entering, I wont enter if I am going to battle against the people I dont like; and I bet they feel the same way.

But I like youuuuuuu :3 Lets go out for ice cream sometime mkaaaay?

Vintniv
04-14-2012, 03:08 PM
But I like youuuuuuu :3 Lets go out for ice cream sometime mkaaaay?

Yes, I have mitigated my problems with you, but not everybody.

I've asked Flash to consider a new forum, for just general art discussion so that maybe people wont be as intimidated by this section, will get more involved and hopefully develop better relationships rather than be trapped in an endless cycle of competition.

Zenister
04-14-2012, 06:42 PM
I must be weird; I vastly prefer competing against people I don't like. Victory is so much more satisfying.

;)

Kaitou+
04-14-2012, 06:44 PM
I must be weird; I vastly prefer competing against people I don't like. Victory is so much more satisfying.

;)

Actually, it's not weird because you won't feel bad about making them feel bad about loosing.

If they are your friends, you're more delicate about it.

Vintniv
04-14-2012, 08:11 PM
I must be weird; I vastly prefer competing against people I don't like. Victory is so much more satisfying.

;)


Which proves my point that these contests and our threads egotistical festivities; and not so much about enjoying our ability to create things.

Meenah
04-14-2012, 08:31 PM
Why contests need to be hardcore competition? I only do things for fun to see if I did great with my entry or not. If not, oh well. Plus, I don't hate anyone except dislike Videogamer555 that's all. It's only for harmless fun. ):

Cantelope
04-14-2012, 08:47 PM
It's hard to answer why, but AF just has a really fucking weird graphic artist community. The atmosphere here PROMOTES competition and elitism; whereas in other forums, activities like sotw get by without anyone really giving two shits. Over there it's a fun past-time, but here? Your god damn reputation is at stake. What fun is that? How many fights or complaints have we seen at the results of any kind of SOTW or BOTM? It feels like everyone here is obsessed with 'being the best'.

Anyways, good riddance to sotw; that shit scares away new members who might be aspiring graphic designers. We need an atmosphere more conducive to fostering the next generation of artists and building a solid community of people who are generally friendly with each other; not a god damn tiger den of 5 people clawing at each other all the time, whom only unite to rip novices apart. Also, this section of the forums needs some serious downsizing, there's so many sub-forums that should just be merged.

blueangel06661
04-14-2012, 08:52 PM
It's hard to answer why, but AF just has a really fucking weird graphic artist community. The atmosphere here PROMOTES competition and elitism; whereas in other forums, activities like sotw get by without anyone really giving two shits. Over there it's a fun past-time, but here? Your god damn reputation is at stake. What fun is that? How many fights or complaints have we seen at the results of any kind of SOTW or BOTM? It feels like everyone here is obsessed with 'being the best'.

Anyways, good riddance to sotw; that shit scares away new members who might be aspiring graphic designers. We need an atmosphere more conducive to fostering the next generation of artists and building a solid community of people who are generally friendly with each other; not a god damn tiger den of 5 people clawing at each other all the time, whom only unite to rip novices apart. Also, this section of the forums needs some serious downsizing, there's so many sub-forums that should just be merged.


Have you ever been to planet renders gfx forums?? My goodness. They chewed me and seung out from the very start even though their works were not much better. So both of us left... Talk about elitism..

Oh, btw while I'm at it, would you like to join our GFX worm in Dazzle us? It's more of what you like, a fun community event rather than a "my piece is better than your piece" thing.. I even managed to get a few members who just joined AF in the past week or so to join in. It'd be nice if you did too :3

And to be fair SOTW and BOTM ARE competitions none the less. You do compete for them and only the best should win them rightfully. But the rest of the forum shouldn't really be like that.

Cantelope
04-14-2012, 08:59 PM
I suppose I owe it to the community to pitch in. Why the hell not, I'll try to make a deadline at least once in my life.

Ωmega
04-14-2012, 09:23 PM
A forum I really enjoyed participating in was lucid-art. The have a beginner sotw and an advance sotw. Some of the comments posted were a bit elitist, but for the most part everyone was really very friendly. No entry was without flaw, and even entries people voted for would have comments on what they felt could be improved, and it was all written very politely.

Really, I stopped bothering because I got tired of feeling like "oh, this person won? EVERYONE ELSE MUST SUCK THEN." from the other members. And really, theres been a few members that have been a little too boastful about their wins. It just really irritated me.

The difference between here and lucid is that lucid actually felt like a *community*. I was very welcomed when I joined and was given lots of help and tips on my work. It was never cruel, but it wasnt sugar coated either. Many would link me to really awesome tutorials to help me out, whereas here sig threads are, as Serated pointed out, just there for ego stroking.

Another cool thing lucid did was post winners on their front page that linked to the voting page. They posted for both advanced and beginner sotws, which rewarded the advanced members, but also gave a sort of confidence to the newer gfxers. They got to say "hey, my work is on the front page!!". Most winners of the advanced sotws would also make tutorials on their winning entry, to show others how they made their winning piece, so that everyone could learn a new style and advance with their work. None of which is done here. It would be nice if it was

Digimon___Sommelier
04-15-2012, 01:19 PM
Thanks for having it up and thanks to all the UUBER-talented and skilled contributors. See it when it returns! SOTW ROXX!! :)


Your Wi-Fi, it's blown out...

Zenister
04-15-2012, 05:59 PM
The forum on which I'm head moderator of the Graphics section has started posting the winning pieces on the front page, and I think it's been very good for morale.

blueangel06661
04-16-2012, 09:19 AM
I do wish AF had a front page.... But I have no idea on what else we could put on it besides SOTW's BOTM's and WOTM's and forum news that we barely have :/
Maybe someone can be a radio host and go over the events in the forum. "It's just in, ____ was eating tuna on Monday, April 16 according to the what are you eating thread, Video gamer has been banned, again. The new and popular thread which is all the rave this week is the _____ thread"

I can see someone doing that xD

Xel
04-23-2012, 10:58 PM
A forum I really enjoyed participating in was lucid-art. The have a beginner sotw and an advance sotw. Some of the comments posted were a bit elitist, but for the most part everyone was really very friendly. No entry was without flaw, and even entries people voted for would have comments on what they felt could be improved, and it was all written very politely.

Really, I stopped bothering because I got tired of feeling like "oh, this person won? EVERYONE ELSE MUST SUCK THEN." from the other members. And really, theres been a few members that have been a little too boastful about their wins. It just really irritated me.

The difference between here and lucid is that lucid actually felt like a *community*. I was very welcomed when I joined and was given lots of help and tips on my work. It was never cruel, but it wasnt sugar coated either. Many would link me to really awesome tutorials to help me out, whereas here sig threads are, as Serated pointed out, just there for ego stroking.

Another cool thing lucid did was post winners on their front page that linked to the voting page. They posted for both advanced and beginner sotws, which rewarded the advanced members, but also gave a sort of confidence to the newer gfxers. They got to say "hey, my work is on the front page!!". Most winners of the advanced sotws would also make tutorials on their winning entry, to show others how they made their winning piece, so that everyone could learn a new style and advance with their work. None of which is done here. It would be nice if it was

I was a member of lucid believe it or not. The attitude spread over to the parent site (Bleachexile), but that's neither here nor there. Lucid was a dedicated GFX site, not a whole lot of focus on other stuff, which is what caused them to boom

any idea when sotw might pick back up? or maybe some minor competitions? I'm ready to load up ps again in zeal

Zenister
05-08-2012, 06:34 PM
Hello, flood of awards.

Are we doing those again?

Bulf
05-08-2012, 07:48 PM
Hello, flood of awards.

Are we doing those again?

Yeah, I thought I couldn't give them out because I was a probie, apparently I can xD
Normal sotw should be back up in a week or so, due to popular demand!

blueangel06661
05-08-2012, 08:09 PM
Lets hope that demand stays this time >.>

Cantelope
05-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Is anything changing, or is it going to bring the same stupid problems?

Bulf
05-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Lets hope that demand stays this time >.>
I doubt it will, but we'll see, eh?


Is anything changing, or is it going to bring the same stupid problems?
Not really. Same thing as last time, since there's not really anything that can change besides the people who enter :p

Kaitou+
05-08-2012, 10:09 PM
Maybe I should enter





....if I stop being lazy. >.>

Zenister
05-09-2012, 01:40 PM
I, for one, am excited. ;)

.Tatty.
05-09-2012, 01:46 PM
The rules should go back to what can only be named the "serated" era.

If anything at least there was 99% of the time an entry, and depending on an inspired theme that came out of his warped genius mind, there could be a lot of entries.

Also there was no dispute on "victories", becuase there was no poll any tom dick or harry could leave a vote in then leave which is a broken silly system, which can (and probably has) be easily used to someone's advantage.

Basically for new members the rules should go back to:
Anonymous Entries PM'd to contest runner (uploaded to a site with anonymity like TinyPic)
And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting.

Middy
05-09-2012, 02:14 PM
The rules should go back to what can only be named the "serated" era.

If anything at least there was 99% of the time an entry, and depending on an inspired theme that came out of his warped genius mind, there could be a lot of entries.

Also there was no dispute on "victories", becuase there was no poll any tom dick or harry could leave a vote in then leave which is a broken silly system, which can (and probably has) be easily used to someone's advantage.

Basically for new members the rules should go back to:
Anonymous Entries PM'd to contest runner (uploaded to a site with anonymity like TinyPic)
And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting.


"And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting"

Requiring that people post a reason for their votes does little to mitigate any disappointment that may arise when relatively "uneducated" members vote for sigs they truly believe are the most visually appealing.

At this risk of sounding elitist, I feel that most designers who reach a certain point in their knowledge of design begin to differentiate between varying levels of skill and judge entries based on the their adherence to certain design conventions as opposed simply to preference. I'm not suggesting that more experienced graphic designers are infallible voters; everyone has styles/conventions to which they are particularly sensitive, but I do think certain signatures that would might receive votes from the general public would not receive votes from a design oriented member as a result of what are seen as qualitative differences.

Thus, having votes that more experienced designers can't help but cringe at is the price you pay for having open voting.

This is not to say that panels are superior to open voting, but rather that requiring members to post their reasons does not, in my opinion, actually solve a problem (if you even see it as such) that is simply inherent to open voting in a community that has desigers of all different skill levels.

blueangel06661
05-09-2012, 03:02 PM
Not to mention with stating your reason for voting it limits the amount of votes.. With the polls you can get about 10-20 votes (and with this some people still post why in the comments so it's not like it's a gone thing) But when you require people to say why a lot of people don't want to put "Because I think it's personally the best in my eyes and I think it's pretty" unfortunately some people can't properly critique/praise signatures and have a hard time explaining WHY exactly they like the piece as opposed to other good pieces so instead of getting 10-20 votes you may only get about 5-10 which is half.

People need to chuck this elitist idea out of the door. We're a community NOT a close knit exclusive GFX section. We're open to anyone and it's people that think that only the best of the best should be recognized and receive any glory that is driving this section to the dirt and quite frankly at lot of people are not happy with you and you people know who you are there is quite a handful of you.. So .Tatty. so what if tom or harry leaves a vote in then leaves. If that's what they wanna do then let them. It's none of your business now is it. Of course there's always exceptions and special cases that may arise but I just say deal with them on an as needed basis.

Anon entries + poll voting still for me.

.Tatty.
05-09-2012, 03:09 PM
Thats not an elitist view that voting with a post needs to be implemented, its a way if voting that is more fair.

A post could be "I voted for A, it looks the best to me, the colours are good and I like the effect."

Rather than an in depth CnC, You need to drop that deluded idea voting with a post is elitist.

Vintniv
05-09-2012, 05:55 PM
The rules should go back to what can only be named the "serated" era.

If anything at least there was 99% of the time an entry, and depending on an inspired theme that came out of his warped genius mind, there could be a lot of entries.

Also there was no dispute on "victories", becuase there was no poll any tom dick or harry could leave a vote in then leave which is a broken silly system, which can (and probably has) be easily used to someone's advantage.

Basically for new members the rules should go back to:
Anonymous Entries PM'd to contest runner (uploaded to a site with anonymity like TinyPic)
And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting.


Can I interest you in some magic beans?



"And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting"

Requiring that people post a reason for their votes does little to mitigate any disappointment that may arise when relatively "uneducated" members vote for sigs they truly believe are the most visually appealing.

At this risk of sounding elitist, I feel that most designers who reach a certain point in their knowledge of design begin to differentiate between varying levels of skill and judge entries based on the their adherence to certain design conventions as opposed simply to preference. I'm not suggesting that more experienced graphic designers are infallible voters; everyone has styles/conventions to which they are particularly sensitive, but I do think certain signatures that would might receive votes from the general public would not receive votes from a design oriented member as a result of what are seen as qualitative differences.

Thus, having votes that more experienced designers can't help but cringe at is the price you pay for having open voting.

This is not to say that panels are superior to open voting, but rather that requiring members to post their reasons does not, in my opinion, actually solve a problem (if you even see it as such) that is simply inherent to open voting in a community that has desigers of all different skill levels.


Its really based on the evolution of one's taste in art. You do lots of smudging, I do lots of C4Ds, Blue does a lot of textures, and we tend to pick based upon what we like. That doesnt necessarily mean one particular for of execution of a theme is superior to another. But it does allow us to evolve and look at things like, 'Oh, I wonder how they did that.'

I think its very very important to write down why you like a particular entry, it allows you better understand the things you like, and how it might reflect on you. Do you like muted color, or highly saturated ones? Do you like vertical tags, or horizontal tags? Do you like red or blue? Stuff like that.


Not to mention with stating your reason for voting it limits the amount of votes.. With the polls you can get about 10-20 votes (and with this some people still post why in the comments so it's not like it's a gone thing) But when you require people to say why a lot of people don't want to put "Because I think it's personally the best in my eyes and I think it's pretty" unfortunately some people can't properly critique/praise signatures and have a hard time explaining WHY exactly they like the piece as opposed to other good pieces so instead of getting 10-20 votes you may only get about 5-10 which is half.

People need to chuck this elitist idea out of the door. We're a community NOT a close knit exclusive GFX section. We're open to anyone and it's people that think that only the best of the best should be recognized and receive any glory that is driving this section to the dirt and quite frankly at lot of people are not happy with you and you people know who you are there is quite a handful of you.. so what if tom or harry leaves a vote in then leaves. If that's what they wanna do then let them. It's none of your business now is it. Of course there's always exceptions and special cases that may arise but I just say deal with them on an as needed basis.

Anon entries + poll voting still for me.

Quantity vs. Quality voting. Which do you find more trust worthy?

blueangel06661
05-09-2012, 06:05 PM
Quantity vs. Quality voting. Which do you find more trust worthy?

I find quality more trustworthy, and you do get some quality answers from polls. But I just don't want to leave out those who are not very good at it or get turned away by how much detail some of us give to voting.. I mean some of us give like paragraphs.. Maybe Joe over here only has a sentence or two to say, wouldn't they feel a bit hesitant to write it if everyone else is writing novels? XD

.Tatty.
05-09-2012, 06:31 PM
Thats the thing your getting horribly wrong and your elitism logic falls flat on its face.

The old voting was never "paragraphs", it was a few sentences if that.

blueangel06661
05-09-2012, 06:44 PM
You're right myB.. I was thinking of something else.. But still how helpful are one liners anyways? I mean they are okay for a majority but shouldn't those of us who can do a little bit more to help each other improve?

Cantelope
05-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Open polls and non anonymous entries. Who cares if someone cheats? Lol badges on an internet forum. Seems like we're still pent up on winning =(

GameGeeks
05-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Open polls and non anonymous entries. Who cares if someone cheats? Lol badges on an internet forum. Seems like we're still pent up on winning =(
While I can agree, even if I don't like it, that C&C voting here is pointless here I still think it should be anonymous so that it doesn't become a popularity contest.

Middy
05-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Its really based on the evolution of one's taste in art. You do lots of smudging, I do lots of C4Ds, Blue does a lot of textures, and we tend to pick based upon what we like. That doesnt necessarily mean one particular for of execution of a theme is superior to another. But it does allow us to evolve and look at things like, 'Oh, I wonder how they did that.'

I think its very very important to write down why you like a particular entry, it allows you better understand the things you like, and how it might reflect on you. Do you like muted color, or highly saturated ones? Do you like vertical tags, or horizontal tags? Do you like red or blue? Stuff like that.



Quantity vs. Quality voting. Which do you find more trust worthy?

I agree with you that writing down the reasons for one's vote can help the voter gain a better understanding of the design elements they appreciate or wish to improve on themselves, as well as simply improving the voter's ability to provide meaningful CnC.

However, I do not think that open voting with reason stating prevents the problems

Tatty refered to:


Also there was no dispute on "victories", becuase there was no poll any tom dick or harry could leave a vote in then leave which is a broken silly system, which can (and probably has) be easily used to someone's advantage.

Basically for new members the rules should go back to:
Anonymous Entries PM'd to contest runner (uploaded to a site with anonymity like TinyPic)
And voting via a post with a half decent explanation as to why you're voting.

Even with the requirement for "explanations as to why you're voting," unless you actually set a minimum bar for the comments content (which is where the calls of elitism are coming from) there is still nothing preventing any tom dick or harry from voting.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing.
I just wanted to point out to Tatty that I don't think his solution actually addresses the issue, which is an underlying skill difference among potential voters.

P.s.

Hope we don't have any bad blood 0_o
I dig your work and always appreciated your extracts <3

Bulf
05-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Alright, I threw this thread up so I can get this settled a little easier :p
http://www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?108834-Public-vs-Anon

Vintniv
05-10-2012, 02:17 AM
I agree with you that writing down the reasons for one's vote can help the voter gain a better understanding of the design elements they appreciate or wish to improve on themselves, as well as simply improving the voter's ability to provide meaningful CnC.

However, I do not think that open voting with reason stating prevents the problems

Tatty refered to:



Even with the requirement for "explanations as to why you're voting," unless you actually set a minimum bar for the comments content (which is where the calls of elitism are coming from) there is still nothing preventing any tom dick or harry from voting.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing.
I just wanted to point out to Tatty that I don't think his solution actually addresses the issue, which is an underlying skill difference among potential voters.

P.s.

Hope we don't have any bad blood 0_o
I dig your work and always appreciated your extracts <3

Nope, no bad blood here. And I got a lot of Extracts coming soon, so you will be very happy.


But on the debate of skill and novice, quality and quantity, it is difficult to put a value on things. Which is more important to you, a bunch of people saying wow that's awesome, or someone recommending you work on your color? Is the value of someone you consider your artistic equal more valuable than someone who doesnt know photoshop?

Its really a conundrum, I agree with idea that more people should participate in this contest, but I dont like the fact that people see it as such a bothersome chore to write 1-2 sentences describing what they're looking at and WHY they look it. The terrible tragedy about art, is we dont want it to be difficult. We want to look at pretty things, say its pretty, and then move on.


I have considered what would be a more effective solution to this. None of them seem to work.

Divide the SOTW between Rookie and Regular. No one wants to be a rookie.
Poll based voting. There's very very little feedback.
Value votes based upon user.

But in the grand scheme of things, this is a popularity contest.

blueangel06661
05-10-2012, 07:50 AM
It actually crossed my mind to divide SOTW in a totally different way. Have fortnight contest and one week be the mainstream week where anyone can vote no matter what and another week be a secluded SOTW in IS where only IS members can vote and they are required to write at least 3 sentences as to why they voted for that piece and at least 1 constructive reason why they did not vote for the rest.

[see how I underlined constructive? Yeah that means constructive, not bash fest. Please understand the difference guys]

However IS is dead, I don't think our IS members will go the extra mile for anything anymore. And apparently that section is going bai bai soon? But if we had the right motivation and determination from our members it'd probably be a solution worth trying. That way you get quality and quantity, just every other week.

Bulf
05-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Alright, thread will be up until tomorrow, so any last votes/comments are welcome (and kinda needed too)
www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?108834-Public-vs-Anon

What with it being tied for comments and polls atm, I'll probably just do polls. Since you can still comment and leave your cnc's and whatnot.